Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

Ariela wrote:I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...

This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

Ariela wrote:
I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

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Sure she appeared cold. I'm sure she was feeling the pressure of explaining herself when the premise of this show is such that you DUMP the F2 and go on. She was in an terrible position  because she made an error in judgment (  by sleeping with him). It takes 2!

He has been acting STALKER-ish for months now. THAT would scare the living daylights out of me. Most F2s get the hint and walk away, or accept ANY explanation that the lead gives them, because that's the NATURE of the show.

He's going around now and saying that he was hurt and that's why he did it. He also says that he didn't mean for it to come out. C'mon he's 33, not 12. He's too cleaver. I think he's manipulating the viewers. Sounds like revenge to me. He got mad that she wouldn't face him after she dumped him. He could have stopped right after she told him that she had a greater love with Josh.  I don't condone Andi's behavior, but IMO, he's trying to get his 15 minutes of fame by soiling Andi/Josh love.

I hope women take notice, and realize that you cannot change stripes on a Zebra. Nick will repeat his behavior. He's a classless Yahoo.

Ariela wrote:
Ariela wrote:
I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

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Sure she appeared cold. I'm sure she was feeling the pressure of explaining herself when the premise of this show is such that you DUMP the F2 and go on. She was in an terrible position  because she made an error in judgment (  by sleeping with him). It takes 2!

He has been acting STALKER-ish for months now. THAT would scare the living daylights out of me. Most F2s get the hint and walk away, or accept ANY explanation that the lead gives them, because that's the NATURE of the show.

He's going around now and saying that he was hurt and that's why he did it. He also says that he didn't mean for it to come out. C'mon he's 33, not 12. He's too cleaver. I think he's manipulating the viewers. Sounds like revenge to me. He got mad that she wouldn't face him after she dumped him. He could have stopped right after she told him that she had a greater love with Josh.  I don't condone Andi's behavior, but IMO, he's trying to get his 15 minutes of fame by soiling Andi/Josh love.

I hope women take notice, and realize that you cannot change stripes on a Zebra. Nick will repeat his behavior. He's a classless Yahoo.

I agree with both of you.  He DID have an agenda, big time.

Alanna wrote:

Ariela wrote:I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...

This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

Other than what you said about not taking Nick to f2, do you think Andi could have done anything better? I've made it clear that I believe Nick shouldn't have said what he said but I also think that Andi should have handled it much differently. I think Andi did lead Nick on beyond what's required but I won't comment about the FS because only Andi knows her motives for that. I believe she has trouble with criticism and we've seen that with Eric & Nick. I've liked Andi all season and am disappointed in what I saw. It doesn't absolve Nick but what he said doesn't absolve Andi either imo. Hopefully they'll both learn something about themselves from the experience.

GuardianAngel wrote:Nick did not go to Mexico. As per CH's blog, he called CH while Andi was in Mexico.

Correct.  CH never said Nick went to Mexico, but it was stated as fact in countless tweets, blogs, etc.  Glad that was finally put to rest.

So essentially Nick's "stalking" is based on telling CH he wanted to speak to MeandI?  If Nick had ever tried to see MeandI in Atlanta, surely we would have reports of it. 

Nick fulfilled his contract by filming the scenes for the MTA and by appearing on the ATFR show.  Doesn't meet the criteria for stalking IMHO.

Ariela wrote:I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...

She said all those things after he asked her if she didn't love him why did she make love with him.  Before his heated and inappropriate question she said that she didn't love him and never told him she loved him.

Andi is opposite of me or how I hope I could be.  I would have tried to show sympathy to him and once he told everyone we had sex, I would have shut my mouth and gave nothing.  She bahaved opposite of that.

While I understand that people feel sorry for Andi and Josh's families and their viewing parties, Andi knew what she had done, at least if she had met with him before had, if it had come up, she would have been able to warn said families.

Neither Andi or Nick handled the AFTR very well.  All have had to do media afterwards, due to their contracts.  MF loves this it is keeping interest high for BiP.  Nick has expressed regret at how it came out and wished the couple well.  I am not following the couples media, so I only know what is posted here.  Hopefully after this week they can all move forward and they can leave each other alone.

Alanna wrote:

Ariela wrote:I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...

This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

It is my opinion and my opinion only that TPTB was telling him that she was uncertain with her decision and might pull a Jason. I have no proof. I think all the SM was a man who was attempting to court her. Maybe not the nicest thing to Josh, but if he was told that she wasn't certain, I can understand. What I saw of her breaking up with that left it open. She didn't discuss with him that she just had more feelings for Josh.

I don't know what happened, but I put nothing past TPTB, they love to mess with peoples lives. With Nick and the plane video, he was an extra big target.

The plane video has been discussed ad naseum, but I do want to ask something. Nick thought he was having a private conversation with his parents about his heart break, and it was recorded against his will and violated his privacy.

Haven't most of us said much worse about an ex and the new person they are with than Nick did? It wasn't something he intended for anyone but his parents to hear.

I can't understand everyone hating him for words he thought he said in private. I have said much worse in private and public about my ex's and the new people they are with.

The video was not a conscious effort on Nick's part to be rude to Andi or Josh. I guess for me, a little understanding on their part for the video, would have gone a long way for me. I understand being upset about the AFTR a lot more than the video.

albean99 wrote:

Alanna wrote:

Ariela wrote:I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...

This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

Other than what you said about not taking Nick to f2, do you think Andi could have done anything better? I've made it clear that I believe Nick shouldn't have said what he said but I also think that Andi should have handled it much differently. I think Andi did lead Nick on beyond what's required but I won't comment about the FS because only Andi knows her motives for that. I believe she has trouble with criticism and we've seen that with Eric & Nick. I've liked Andi all season and am disappointed in what I saw. It doesn't absolve Nick but what he said doesn't absolve Andi either imo. Hopefully they'll both learn something about themselves from the experience.

Albean, you expressed this perfectly. Thank you!

stuckinsc wrote:

Alanna wrote:

Ariela wrote:I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...

This is one thing I'm not sure about but I suspect you may be right only because he started in with tweeting about their fs, posting pics of them kissing against the tree and all the other sm stupidity all season long from him. A part of me thinks it's because Andi was being so cold and another agrees with you that Andi could have said anything and it was his agenda to talk about their fs escapades regardless.

One thing ITA with you about is that she must be so freaking sorry she ever laid eyes on him or at least didn't take Chris and Marcus to f3. I'd like to think that they're decent guys and wouldn't have talked about the fs regardless of what she did or didn't do with them. Even though Murrays/Dorfmans and of course Josh are so supportive of her, I cannot imagine how much she must wish she could redo that whole thing now. JMO.

It is my opinion and my opinion only that TPTB was telling him that she was uncertain with her decision and might pull a Jason.  I have no proof.  I think all the SM was a man who was attempting to court her.  Maybe not the nicest thing to Josh, but if he was told that she wasn't certain, I can understand.  What I saw of her breaking up with that left it open.  She didn't discuss with him that she just had more feelings for Josh.

I don't know what happened, but I put nothing past TPTB, they love to mess with peoples lives.  With Nick and the plane video, he was an extra big target.

The plane video has been discussed ad naseum, but I do want to ask something.  Nick thought he was having a private conversation with his parents about his heart break, and it was recorded against his will and violated his privacy.

Haven't most of us said much worse about an ex and the new person they are with than Nick did?  It wasn't something he intended for anyone but his parents to hear.

I can't understand everyone hating him for words he thought he said in private.  I have said much worse in private and public about my ex's and the new people they are with.

The video was not a conscious effort on Nick's part to be rude to Andi or Josh.  I guess for me, a little understanding on their part for the video, would have gone a long way for me.  I understand being upset about the AFTR a lot more than the video.

I don't know what Nick thought he was doing with his (imo ridiculous) sm all season, but he really wasn't listening to Andi because her sm was very obvious to me, and it was obvious that she was very happy and in love with the man she chose. If Nick posting all that stuff was his attempt to court her vs embarrass her and wreak havoc on Jodi, he really needed to pay better attention to her, watch the show, and pay attention to her behavior post-show. We were able to collect an entire thread of sm clues from her where she was very clear about what she wanted imo. If he didn't listen, I don't know how that can be helped. Andi certainly did everything she could in the sm world.

Andi had a nano second to decide which of about ten forks in the road to take, during 1-2 minutes of airtime. As a trial lawyer, we get put in that hot seat frequently by opposing counsel and judges. Her quick response -- to publicly label it "below the belt" was strategic and quick thinking. It framed the debate for the next week of media hype as "was Nick fair to bring this up on national TV", as opposed to any number of responses that would have left the scrutiny on her decisions on the night of the Fantasy Suite. It was quick thinking on her feet, not a private break up conversation.

And as I just posted somewhere else, since when was the RIGHT TO CLOSURE a sacred constitutional right up there with FREEDOM OF THE PRESS. It makes me laugh.

jlccaz wrote:Andi had a nano second to decide which of about ten forks in the road to take, during 1-2 minutes of airtime.  As a trial lawyer, we get put in that hot seat frequently by opposing counsel and judges.  Her quick response -- to publicly label it "below the belt" was strategic and quick thinking.  It framed the debate for the next week of media hype as "was Nick fair to bring this up on national TV", as opposed to any number of responses that would have left the scrutiny on her decisions on the night of the Fantasy Suite.  It was quick thinking on her feet, not a private break up conversation.

And as I just posted somewhere else, since when was the RIGHT TO CLOSURE a sacred constitutional right up there with FREEDOM OF THE PRESS.  It makes me laugh.

Yeah this ^.
It may not be the way we want things, but in life, that's the way things are.
Closure is not a given. It's not a right.
Sometimes we never get it. Sometimes when we least expect it or with much time later we do.
To me, it's a blessing and a gift, because it's something I don't expect. Like the trite saying goes: "it is what it is".

Basically, this entire show is spit swapping, FS sleeping with ALL 3!, and quick RC dumping-BAM!
They all know what they are signing up for. But to carry on obsessively is NOT normal. Airing out FS dirty laundry is the lowest of all.

I agree that Andi has her set of "issues". Three months and an explanation that she had a better connection with Josh should have been sufficient, no?  

Nick needs to stop pretending that shaming Andi  "just came out, out of nowhere". LIAR.
Walk away, Nick! Because you're starting to look too obsessive (which is scary for future women), or vindictive (not a good trait).