Re: : Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - *Fan Forum* - *Spoilers* - Discussion - Thread #8

[aglaea]

He just aggravates me with all his innuendo that something was not right in Jodi-land and implying Nick was the better choice - probably fed the same bs to Nick too.

Chris H states that he doesn't know what is in the letter Nick wrote?  Chris used the exact same phrase, "the road less travelled" as Nick did in the letter, to describe Andi and Nick's relationship in one of his latest blogs? Remember that one?  where Chris says that Josh is the familiar relationship that Andi is used to, but Nick's is the relationship that Andi aspires to...although he wasn't sure if Andi would have the courage to pull the trigger to go foe the road less travelled when it came decision time??  
Actually it turns out she didn't have the courage to go for it.  It seemed to me that her anger at being questioned was partly due to regret about what she may be passing up, and probably guilt because she knew she had conveyed strong feelings and great possibility of a future together with Nick.  Otherwise I think she would have been able to be compassionate and understanding when trying to explain to Nick that she had to let him go.  The way she was with Chris, Marcus, JJ, Brian,Marquel, Tasos, etc.  The anger was partly necessary as a guard to stop being in tune with Nick, to transfer her real feelings for Nick to Josh (who she had feelings for too) so she could feel 100% in her decision.  The other part of her anger seemed to arise from being unable or unwilling to feel any empathy for what she knew as genuine hurt in someone she professed to care for.  Unbelievable lack of integrity - Nick did indeed dodge a self centered bullet.

aglaea I posted a similar question about Andi's anger toward Nick (even during finale), mostly to myself as I'm trying to satisfy this in my head.  Why did she show such little emotion when letting him go compared to several others with whom she shared less.  I had the same thought that perhaps she really did have feelings for him, more than she wanted to admit, and the only way she could manage those feelings, was to mask them and let lawyerAndi come out.  It seems to be her go to whenever she is insecure.   I agree w Nick that she took it too far (and I'm not just talking about sex), she didn't have to give him as much as she did for the purpose of the show.  If  last night is the real Andi and she was an actress on the show, what a disappointing season.  The guys on the show this season were great and that's what I'll remember.  And will continue to follow Nick.     :Nod: :Nod:

Agree completely b...well except maybe for all the guys on the season being great- To me Nick was a refreshing surprise and in another class altogether than the usual contestants on this show.

[eirekay]

Molly Mesnick said on the podcast that she supposedly designed that ring  herself and Neil Lane custom made it for her according to sources and Molly was wondering how Neil Lane must have told her fiancé now to pick that ring because it was not shown. Just continues to lead credence that it was her fiancé all along and not Nick IMO.

No wonder she was more excited for the ring last night than for Josh!  I don't think this meant that Josh was necessarily it all along.  I do think that NL was told which ring to push on Josh that morning or even earlier.

Now if she designed the stupid thing, then will she please stapp saying that Josh did good?  No he did exactly what you laid out for him.  Unless he is a dog taking a command, he really had nothing to do with the process.  Good job indeed!

50 shades of Fido?

To quote from the infamous Nick Airplane Video: “Yeah, like, Josh won’t say sh*t. Like, he’ll do whatever she wants. "

To quote Andi: Nailed it.

[notarose]

Was this posted, because I didn't see it. BEST article yet!!!!!

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/

   

[SueSt]

Hi Guys, Still in shock... and trying to wean myself a bit ... reading but not yet posting... still, this was sooooooooo good I had to post.  I love you all and will be back soon!   
Sue

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/?mobile_redirect=false&utm_source=thecut.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_article


No, Andi Dorfman Was Not Slut-Shamed On Last Night’s Shocking “Bachelorette” Finale

Posted by Amelia McDonell-Parry  /10 hours ago

"HI, I'M THE WORST"

On "The Bachelorette"'s Shocking Finale & "Slut-Shaming" Andi Dorfman

How about that “Bachelorette” finale, huh? Crazy! Unexpected! An incredibly annoying for more reasons than I can count. After the jump, I’ll break down — okay, rant about in a somewhat meandering fashion — Andi Dorfman’s “controversial” final rose decision, the OMG revelation that sex actually happens in the Fantasy Suite, and why cries that Andi was “slut-shamed” on “After the Final Rose” are totally ridiculous.

For weeks now, it’s been abundantly clear that Andi’s final two men would be Nick, the soft spoken, sensitive Wisconsin dude with whom she shared an undeniable emotional, mental and physical connection, and Josh, the fun-loving jock with the bizarro hairline who also happens to be from her hometown. What hasn’t been as obvious to me is who she would choose in the end, largely because I’ve watched this show long enough to know that if it seems obvious, expect a twist. Week after week, I found myself thinking, It seems so obvious that she’s going to pick Nick, that she must not pick him in the end. As Nick fell deeper in love with Andi, he asked her for signs of reassurance that she was feeling the same way, and she gave them over and over again, until finally my doubts were quieted. I mean, how can she NOT pick him?

Andi and Nick — who, I should mention, I have no personal preference for, as I found all of the guys on this season to be total duds — not only sparked like crazy (they couldn’t keep their hands off each other) but also shared  a genuine, deep connection that both seemingly valued as rare and difficult to find. Andi and Josh certainly had a connection too, but as Andi told us time and time again, her attraction to Josh seemed almost entirely based on him being her usual “type.” As Andi was looking to broaden her horizons, she expressed her fears that Josh was too good to be true, with the two often butting heads over her doubts. As a viewer, I found it difficult to rally behind Andi and Josh as a couple, because while they made more sense than Nick and Andi on paper — as one of my followers put it last night, “Southern basics unite” — I couldn’t for the life of me figure out what was so “good” about Josh anyway. Was it his inability to talk about anything but his brother and baseball? Or was it his expertise at loud kissing? I mean, honestly, Josh was cute and nice and all, but there is nothing there.

So, even though I was prepared for a twist, I went into last night’s finale about as confident as Nick that he would be getting the final rose. But it wasn’t in the cards. The morning of the final rose ceremony, Andi knocked on Nick’s front door instead of Neil Lane and delivered a bombshell. Despite giving Nick as much assurance as she was contractually allowed to the previous evening, Andi woke up feeling like something wasn’t right and decided to dump him on the spot, sparing him the rose ceremony rejection. There have been a few seasons where the final two was cut down to one before the last rose ceremony, I guess to save the rejected man or woman the humiliation of preparing to propose. But Andi’s speech to Nick as she rejected him implied that she had gone to bed with one feeling — that it was right with him — and then woke up feeling the opposite. It’s no wonder the guy was left blindsided and practically speechless.

I’m going to skip past Andi and Josh’s proposal, because MEH. These two deserve each other. That was the grossest display of over-the-top acting I’ve ever seen. I had to put my TV on mute. Where was all that passion and love and “baby baby baby” poop every other episode this season? Andi told Josh she had been in love with him since the moment he stepped out of the limo, which told me all I needed to know about her and her bullshit approach to this show. Andi, more than any other contestant in the show’s history, in my opinion, treated this “search for love” like a job interview. She tested her candidates every step of the way, waiting to see who would fail. Josh was her top candidate from day one, but she had to make him prove he deserved the job, while she led Nick, the less obvious choice, on as Plan B. Nick only had her heart if Josh failed, but she had her fingers crossed that Josh would succeed.

This is, of course, the way this show works. By the time it’s down to the final two, both are usually in love and whoever is rejected is left feeling pretty crappy. Usually, however, you see more compassion from the Bachelor/Bachelorette doing the rejecting. While Andi cried during her breakup with Nick, the minute she walked out the door, she seemingly turned off any emotion she felt toward him. On “After The Final Rose,” Chris Harrison explained that Nick had tried twice (the second time being the day of “The Men Tell All” episode taping) to speak to Andi and get some closure, and she refused to see him, apparently because she “wasn’t ready.” This felt incredibly callous to me. While, yes, I think Nick should move on, people — including people who go on “The Bachelorette” to find love — deserve to have closure. I have a strong hunch Andi negotiated being cast as “The Bachelorette” by agreeing to bow out of Juan Pablo’s season at the opportune time, so I suppose it shouldn’t be surprising that she treated dumping Nick like an unfortunate business decision that she’d rather not discuss.

Because Andi refused to speak to Nick after she ended it with him, they were forced to have their first in person conversation ON LIVE TELEVISION. Nick, still in love with Andi and nursing his would, was clearly flustered and nervous; Andi, as you might expect from someone who gives her blindsided ex the silent treatment for no reason, was cold and volunteered very little answers. Finally Nick dropped a bomb. “Feeling like you did, if you knew how in love with you I was, why did you make love with me?” In the franchise’s 50 million seasons, the subject of sex — specifically sex in the fantasy suite — is RARELY if ever discussed, but c’mon, with the exception of particularly religious cast members, don’t we all know THEY ALL **** IN THE FANTASTY SUITE. They’re adults. That’s what adults do. Nick just dared to bring it up not, as many people on my Twitter feed posited, to “slut-shame” her, but as an example of her LEADING HIM ON EMOTIONALLY. Because for Nick, sex with Andi was an expression of his love for her, love he expressed to her time and time again. I don’t judge Andi for sleeping with Nick. I don’t think she’s a slut for sleeping with her final two. I do think Nick asking her why she had sex with him knowing it was more meaningful to him than it was for her IS A REASONABLE QUESTION to ask of someone who’s broken your heart. This happens all the time in life! People have sex and then they break up and it sucks and it hurts and sometimes people are left with questions. Ideally, you’re given the opportunity to ask those personal questions OFF camera, but alas, Andi made that impossible. Sorry, girl.

Alas, many people on my Twitter feed saw it different, decrying Nick for “slut shaming” Andi. First of all, that word is thrown around way too much. Is the very act of questioning someone’s motivations for having sex slut shaming now? Newsflash: Sex isn’t just sex for everyone, with everyone, all the time, in perpetuity. Sometimes men are more emotionally sensitive than women! Can you believe it?! When Nick asked Andi about why she had sex with him, he wasn’t asking, “How dare you have sex with me and then Josh and then pick Josh to have sex with for the rest of your life, you whore!” He was saying, “I made it clear to you what having sex with you would mean to me and your willingness to go there further led me on emotionally.” Andi/viewers can disagree with that assessment — and Andi sure as poop was mad he said it, probably because, ahem, Josh didn’t know — but offended? Slutshamed? GIVE ME A BREAK. Call me crazy, but if the genders/situation were reversed and Andi had asked that question of Nick, we’d ALL be applauding. Andi wasn’t being slut-shamed; if anything, she was being censored-SHAMED — and she earned every bit of it.

[SueSt]

ahahahahhaha NR - we're on the same wave length - totally agree - best article!!!

[Cecilia]

Chris H states that he doesn't know what is in the letter Nick wrote?  Chris used the exact same phrase, "the road less travelled" as Nick did in the letter, to describe Andi and Nick's relationship in one of his latest blogs? Remember that one?  where Chris says that Josh is the familiar relationship that Andi is used to, but Nick's is the relationship that Andi aspires to...although he wasn't sure if Andi would have the courage to pull the trigger to go foe the road less travelled when it came decision time??  
Actually it turns out she didn't have the courage to go for it.  It seemed to me that her anger at being questioned was partly due to regret about what she may be passing up, and probably guilt because she knew she had conveyed strong feelings and great possibility of a future together with Nick.  Otherwise I think she would have been able to be compassionate and understanding when trying to explain to Nick that she had to let him go.  The way she was with Chris, Marcus, JJ, Brian,Marquel, Tasos, etc.  The anger was partly necessary as a guard to stop being in tune with Nick, to transfer her real feelings for Nick to Josh (who she had feelings for too) so she could feel 100% in her decision.  The other part of her anger seemed to arise from being unable or unwilling to feel any empathy for what she knew as genuine hurt in someone she professed to care for.  Unbelievable lack of integrity - Nick did indeed dodge a self centered bullet.

aglaea I posted a similar question about Andi's anger toward Nick (even during finale), mostly to myself as I'm trying to satisfy this in my head.  Why did she show such little emotion when letting him go compared to several others with whom she shared less.  I had the same thought that perhaps she really did have feelings for him, more than she wanted to admit, and the only way she could manage those feelings, was to mask them and let lawyerAndi come out.  It seems to be her go to whenever she is insecure.   I agree w Nick that she took it too far (and I'm not just talking about sex), she didn't have to give him as much as she did for the purpose of the show.  If  last night is the real Andi and she was an actress on the show, what a disappointing season.  The guys on the show this season were great and that's what I'll remember.  And will continue to follow Nick.     :Nod: :Nod:

Agree completely b...well except maybe for all the guys on the season being great- To me Nick was a refreshing surprise and in another class altogether than the usual contestants on this show.

also agree!!

[Guest]

I think that if Andi didn't turn out to be the callous and self centered person that she is the sleuthing might have been correct.  We were correct  about Nick's feelings we just over estimated Andi's niceness.  No matter how it ended I also believe that TPTB showed us the true LS and that was between Nian. It makes me sad that she might have exchanged the once in a life time connection with Nick to some court side seats as someone mentioned here.

yes..i think i have read a psychology theory about the quick way to erase our own feeling for someone : just by highlighting their false and why they are not good for us  (couldnt remember the exact terms..but that is the essence)... She came off as a heartless Cruela on that dumping scene...me thinks the theory is in the works   .The frisky article did spot on saying : While Andi cried during her breakup with Nick, the minute she walked out the door, she seemingly turned off any emotion she felt toward him.

I just hope she wont regret it. And for Nick's sake..i guess its made easier for him to clearly see that what he really 'missed' --a cold, cavalier with zero empathy girl- was actually his gain...by dodging that self-centered bullet...  

A lady from the same Extraordinary Planet as Nick  will be the lucky one.  . Now, where is Sharleen?.... 

[eirekay]

Was this posted, because I didn't see it. BEST article yet!!!!!

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/

   

PERFECT!

[Rolly]

Has anyone re-watched Nick parts of the finale and the ATFR? I can't but I kind of want to see the dumping scene again since I was like freaking out the whole time and don't recall it clearly. I totally blocked out the proposal also.

I re-watched the dumping.  On the second viewing, my take away was that Andi arrived at Nick's ready to defend her decision rather than to let him down kindly.  She knew he would question it and she came prepared.

I had the same feeling about the break up with Nick as I did her leaving JP. She knew JP was not going to pick her so how could she leave, save face, blame JP and probably become the 'ette. I think TPTB probably told her JP was picking Nikki and she had to figure out a way to leave (JP didn't ask her anything about her and she had no choice but stay the entire night with him) and save face. She had to dump Nick so she makes it his fault (he was too analytical so she would be forced to also be analytical". Both situations seemed contrived like she was acting and made the other person responsible for why she was making this decision. I wasn't crazy about Andi before and as this season had gone on I've liked her less and less . Not at all someone I would want anyone I cared about to be in a relationship with. Good luck to Josh... I think he's gonna need it! JMO

I know I should break up the above but I'm doing this on my phone and I suck at this.... sorry!  

[stuckinsc]

Was this posted, because I didn't see it. BEST article yet!!!!!

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/

   

PERFECT!

I love this article so much I had to add part of it to my siggie!

[sbolduc]

Was this posted, because I didn't see it. BEST article yet!!!!!

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/

   

PERFECT!

This sums up my thoughts perfectly. Nick was not upset that she slept with him and didn't pick him, he was upset that she never showed or declared any emotion last night relating to love for him yet slept with him, knowing that to him that was an expression of love.

[Brill]

Was this posted, because I didn't see it. BEST article yet!!!!!

http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/

Great Find Nutty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that sums up the things I have been thinking about pretty well!  :giggle:    

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