Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 **NO SPOILERS**

Wow I wish I could have been home on Monday to watch with all of you. I have really enjoyed this season and I wish Andi and Josh the best. I think they are well matched. They compliment each other. I didn't like what Nick did on Monday night. I thought he was childish. It was a lot of fun being on this side without all the noise of being spoiled. As hard as it was not to know what was going on, it was fun watching what was happening and drawing conclusions from what we were seeing and what small things we could sleuth without getting spoiled. I haven't had a chance to read much else but this thread so I am interested in seeing what all went on. Great job GG and Cari and all the rest with the dissecting this season. Will post more after some time to read everything. Thanks again to the mods and the spoiled posters who helped this season without spoiling us!!!!  

I'm posting this here also as surely it will be buried in heaps of pages at the spoiled side hahaha

Lucas15 wrote:

Tnmomof4 wrote:I think she appeared so "cold" because she didn't want to give him any hope that there was a chance that she'd change her mind.  He was so adamant that Josh was wrong for her.  Not to say that she  was right but I can certainly understand it.  I know I've been there.  You break up nicely but every overture of "nice" brings hope so you have to rebreak their heart.  Sometimes being cold is the nicest thing you can do to help someone have closure and move on.  Makes me think of the Dumb and Dumber line (I'm not equating Nick with them!) "So you're saying there's a chance?" in response to the girl saying "there's a 1 in a million chance I'd go out with you." (or something like that.

I think so also and I think in this particular case the more empathetic she would have been the less Nick would have understood. The only way you can get the message to sink in with someone like Nick is to be cold and firm and perhaps not so nice - that seems to me to have been the only way Nick would get the message.

Jeepers wrote:Regarding Andi's less than warm reception to Nick .....  She was probably pretty fed up with his behavior since filming ended...

His comments about things in the plane video
His attempt to see her when she was in Mexico .. With her F1
His attempt to see her again during the MTA weekend
His letter to her
His need to talk to her .. For closure .. At the AFTR
His comment to her during the AFTR

All while she is in a relationship .. That he well knew about

He never got the hint that she was done with him .. He pushed and pushed .. Like NO other F2 has ever done before .. To the point that I am sure she felt harassed by him

Cold!!??  I think she was actually pretty tolerant of him thru out this whole ordeal over the past couple of months .. I am Ware she had to face him at the AFTR .. Her behavior could have been a lot worse and unwelcoming

Put yourself in her place and think .. Honestly .. How you would feel and react to what she had to deal with

Jeepers your post articulates better than I could why I think Andi had no choice but to do pretty much what she did. Anything else would not have gotten the message through especially since refusing to meet with him or return his phone calls or even acknowledge getting and reading his letter didn't get the message through to Nick. Subtlety and nice didn't work.

I've been WishyWashy (WW, that's me!) on post-show Nick. One moment I creep out with his cocky declarations during the show. Then I empathize with him during the LCD because I felt IMHO the intellectual Nick so "connected" with Andi already knew he is not the one. My heart went out to him. Then TPTB shows us his attempts to "reach out" to Andi post-show (as  jeepers perfectly summarized) I say "numerous" attempts!   It is not just calling twice on the phone. Arie sought out Emily without the cameras. The very much blindsided Ben F who Ashley allegedly slept with at the FS sought his closure at AFTR as the usual style. For me, Nick's "numerous" attempts was clearly shown by TPTB, that Nick was hoping for a Mesnick! Nick despite watching himself edited as a villain still thought he had a chance to "change" Andi's mind? Yes, I'm blindsided with the connection we had DURING the show? YES, we made the sweetest love in the FS. But I dint know the connection you also had with Josh. I posted it in the unspoiled thread during the show. It is one of those moments that changed me from WW to a Jodi believer. I transcribed the convo of Nick from Episodes 6-7. And I said, Andi was getting secondhand info about what the boys were saying about Nick in the house. And Andi said in one of her ITMs, she finds it unattractive for a guy who have enemies easily. She finds someone attractive who GETS ALONG with others. I predicted that when Andi watches episode 7. Watched Nick cockily say that there is no one else in the house for Andi but him, watched Chris S say Nick talks about "strategy" all the time, watched Brian say he is 'fake". I ask y'all now, IF you are Andi (engaged with Josh) and here is Nick using middlemen to arrange a meetup while you are watching Nick (edited if you may!), would Andi honestly think Nick just wanted closure?! I mean seriously?! Nick who watched past shows know the F2 faces the Lead during AFTR. Nick could not wait to get his closure then? As in, he's like "No, I have to get closure now! I'll call Chris maybe he could get me private time with Andi. Josh is a great guy, surely he'll understand that I want closure" again, SERIOUSLY?! Nick was hoping for a Mesnick! Andi probably felt what he was trying to do! My heart went out to him at the AFTR. He seemed too broken that after denied numerous attempts. He still dint get it that the signals he's trying to send across Andi (and by extension Josh) is disrespectful and stalkerish.

I know most of you don't like Kelly but her tweet was telling. Again, put yourself in Andi's shoes, RT @kellytravisty: This is the last I will say... If an ex showed up at your door unannounced I highly doubt any of you would welcome him with open arms Because IF Nick wanted closure he could have waited in the AFTR, certainly Andi would have been nicer to Nick just like to Marcus and Chris S.    Unfortunately, Nick desiring a Mesnick (not just closure) creeped out Andi and disrespected her F1.  :Nod: 

I ask of you of this. Will you still be angry with "coldhearted Andi if Nick got a Mesnick? I perused some of the spoiled posts prior to FRC and some were hoping for a Mesnick   

IMHO, I respectfully say, I'm almost certain most would defend Nick and Andi to the heavens. That theirs was the Greatest Love Story if all. That Andi just followed her heart...

And we would be spending pages and pages of this topic of Nick's awesomeness in his ability to "change" Andi's mind because her heart after all was all Nick.

Or not.

 :hidingchair

Thanks, Cari!

To lighten the discussion, a True Story from i2d: About two years ago, I got home from work and was going to see a friend in the evening. DUH suggested that I might want to listen to the voice mail, as a former boyfriend was trying to reach me. Sure enough, it was a former boyfriend (although DUH and I had been married 25 years…). The message said that he wanted "to make sure [i2d] was alright." I did call him later that evening. I assured him that I was alright. He said that he had also checked on another (female) classmate, and that the two of us were both successful. *That* led him to conclude, as he stated, that he has good taste in women. I did call him on that, since I hadn't been his girlfriend since I was 13. Yep, THIRTEEN. He called twice more, telling me things about myself that I didn't know were public. I did not see him, but didn't tell him to fly a kite, either. But I watched for unusual vehicles around my car at home and at work, and still have his phone number in my phone so I can ID him if he ever calls again.

I can't say that Nick was a stalker or even as creepy as FBF13, and I am not at all sure it wasn't a producer-paid couple of trips. TPTB had to artificially insert drama in the middle of the JoDi show, much like in the Jash show IMO. Otherwise, from the kiss in the castle  :Knight: it would have been a straight line to the proposal.

Off to the off-season for me. I'll lurk a little, and maybe throw something in some time.

TeamEinstein, we rocked it! Mods, you kept us safe! Cookies for everyone!

We should start a thread--under general discussion of course--about humorous past relationships/dates.
I bet that would raise morale if not morals of the forum!

Kashathediva wrote:We should start a thread--under general discussion of course--about humorous past relationships/dates.
I bet that would raise morale if not morals of the forum!

MY IDOL!   

That thread would be a good read especially when I was the one doing the stalking!!! Poor ex! Took me almost 10 years to forget him!   

i2d! That was hilarious and scary at the same time! great thing your hubby was cool about it! We, TeamEinstein had so much fun. Geez, the Bachelor is still in January, right? Sheesh.

Cari wrote:I'm posting this here also as surely it will be buried in heaps of pages at the spoiled side hahaha

Lucas15 wrote:

Tnmomof4 wrote:I think she appeared so "cold" because she didn't want to give him any hope that there was a chance that she'd change her mind.  He was so adamant that Josh was wrong for her.  Not to say that she  was right but I can certainly understand it.  I know I've been there.  You break up nicely but every overture of "nice" brings hope so you have to rebreak their heart.  Sometimes being cold is the nicest thing you can do to help someone have closure and move on.  Makes me think of the Dumb and Dumber line (I'm not equating Nick with them!) "So you're saying there's a chance?" in response to the girl saying "there's a 1 in a million chance I'd go out with you." (or something like that.

I think so also and I think in this particular case the more empathetic she would have been the less Nick would have understood. The only way you can get the message to sink in with someone like Nick is to be cold and firm and perhaps not so nice - that seems to me to have been the only way Nick would get the message.

Jeepers wrote:Regarding Andi's less than warm reception to Nick .....  She was probably pretty fed up with his behavior since filming ended...

His comments about things in the plane video
His attempt to see her when she was in Mexico .. With her F1
His attempt to see her again during the MTA weekend
His letter to her
His need to talk to her .. For closure .. At the AFTR
His comment to her during the AFTR

All while she is in a relationship .. That he well knew about

He never got the hint that she was done with him .. He pushed and pushed .. Like NO other F2 has ever done before .. To the point that I am sure she felt harassed by him

Cold!!??  I think she was actually pretty tolerant of him thru out this whole ordeal over the past couple of months .. I am Ware she had to face him at the AFTR .. Her behavior could have been a lot worse and unwelcoming

Put yourself in her place and think .. Honestly .. How you would feel and react to what she had to deal with

Jeepers your post articulates better than I could why I think Andi had no choice but to do pretty much what she did. Anything else would not have gotten the message through especially since refusing to meet with him or return his phone calls or even acknowledge getting and reading his letter didn't get the message through to Nick. Subtlety and nice didn't work.

I've been WishyWashy (WW, that's me!) on post-show Nick. One moment I creep out with his cocky declarations during the show. Then I empathize with him during the LCD because I felt IMHO the intellectual Nick so "connected" with Andi already knew he is not the one. My heart went out to him. Then TPTB shows us his attempts to "reach out" to Andi post-show (as  jeepers perfectly summarized) I say "numerous" attempts!   It is not just calling twice on the phone. Arie sought out Emily without the cameras. The very much blindsided Ben F who Ashley allegedly slept with at the FS sought his closure at AFTR as the usual style. For me, Nick's "numerous" attempts was clearly shown by TPTB, that Nick was hoping for a Mesnick! Nick despite watching himself edited as a villain still thought he had a chance to "change" Andi's mind? Yes, I'm blindsided with the connection we had DURING the show? YES, we made the sweetest love in the FS. But I dint know the connection you also had with Josh. I posted it in the unspoiled thread during the show. It is one of those moments that changed me from WW to a Jodi believer. I transcribed the convo of Nick from Episodes 6-7. And I said, Andi was getting secondhand info about what the boys were saying about Nick in the house. And Andi said in one of her ITMs, she finds it unattractive for a guy who have enemies easily. She finds someone attractive who GETS ALONG with others. I predicted that when Andi watches episode 7. Watched Nick cockily say that there is no one else in the house for Andi but him, watched Chris S say Nick talks about "strategy" all the time, watched Brian say he is 'fake". I ask y'all now, IF you are Andi (engaged with Josh) and here is Nick using middlemen to arrange a meetup while you are watching Nick (edited if you may!), would Andi honestly think Nick just wanted closure?! I mean seriously?! Nick who watched past shows know the F2 faces the Lead during AFTR. Nick could not wait to get his closure then? As in, he's like "No, I have to get closure now! I'll call Chris maybe he could get me private time with Andi. Josh is a great guy, surely he'll understand that I want closure" again, SERIOUSLY?! Nick was hoping for a Mesnick! Andi probably felt what he was trying to do! My heart went out to him at the AFTR. He seemed too broken that after denied numerous attempts. He still dint get it that the signals he's trying to send across Andi (and by extension Josh) is disrespectful and stalkerish.

I know most of you don't like Kelly but her tweet was telling. Again, put yourself in Andi's shoes, RT @kellytravisty: This is the last I will say... If an ex showed up at your door unannounced I highly doubt any of you would welcome him with open arms Because IF Nick wanted closure he could have waited in the AFTR, certainly Andi would have been nicer to Nick just like to Marcus and Chris S.    Unfortunately, Nick desiring a Mesnick (not just closure) creeped out Andi and disrespected her F1.  :Nod: 

I ask of you of this. Will you still be angry with "coldhearted Andi if Nick got a Mesnick? I perused some of the spoiled posts prior to FRC and some were hoping for a Mesnick   

IMHO, I respectfully say, I'm almost certain most would defend Nick and Andi to the heavens. That theirs was the Greatest Love Story if all. That Andi just followed her heart...

And we would be spending pages and pages of this topic of Nick's awesomeness in his ability to "change" Andi's mind because her heart after all was all Nick.

Or not.

 :hidingchair

Just LUV this   

Thanks, Jeepers! I'm surprised with Sharleen's recap. She has been a Nick cheerleader almost day 1. In fact, Nick fans are pairing them off. I'm not sure now how SharNick feels after her recap. We almost copied each thoughts about the Mesnick thing! I swear, I did not read her blog before posting. Haha I'm glad, too, she did see what I saw in Nick's LCD. I believe Sharleen knew that Nick already had an idea that he may not be The One in that date.

http://www.alltheprettypandas.com/recaps/

eta:

got my answer. Sorry, Sharleen. Your latest recap removed you from the SharNick Operation.   

Cari wrote:
I ask of you of this. Will you still be angry with "coldhearted Andi if Nick got a Mesnick? I perused some of the spoiled posts prior to FRC and some were hoping for a Mesnick   

IMHO, I respectfully say, I'm almost certain most would defend Nick and Andi to the heavens. That theirs was the Greatest Love Story if all. That Andi just followed her heart...

And we would be spending pages and pages of this topic of Nick's awesomeness in his ability to "change" Andi's mind because her heart after all was all Nick.

Or not.

 :hidingchair

To answer your question:  in a word, yes.  If MeandI treated Josh exactly the same way she treated Nick, I would still be disgusted by her actions.  Neither of the F2 were my favorite so there isn't any sort of great attachment to Josh or Nick for me.  

I don't view Nick's actions as trying to change MeandI's mind.  He acknowledge several times that Josh is a great guy, they're engaged, etc.  He simply wanted to understand why she treated him the way she did.

FLChica wrote:

Cari wrote:
I ask of you of this. Will you still be angry with "coldhearted Andi if Nick got a Mesnick? I perused some of the spoiled posts prior to FRC and some were hoping for a Mesnick   

IMHO, I respectfully say, I'm almost certain most would defend Nick and Andi to the heavens. That theirs was the Greatest Love Story if all. That Andi just followed her heart...

And we would be spending pages and pages of this topic of Nick's awesomeness in his ability to "change" Andi's mind because her heart after all was all Nick.

Or not.

 :hidingchair

To answer your question:  in a word, yes.  If MeandI treated Josh exactly the same way she treated Nick, I would still be disgusted by her actions.  Neither of the F2 were my favorite so there isn't any sort of great attachment to Josh or Nick for me.  

I don't view Nick's actions as trying to change MeandI's mind.  He acknowledge several times that Josh is a great guy, they're engaged, etc.  He simply wanted to understand why she treated him the way she did.

 :WAVEY:   

As Sharleen and I almost identically said the same thing. We understand Nick feeling led on especially he came on the show a skeptic. But can't Nick wait for the AFTR? I'm surprised Sharleen expressed the same thing! Why did he have that seemingly URGENT need to contact her through several middlemen just to get "closure. Can't he wait? Oh, yes, we're talking about the same Nick who impulsively goes off and seek Andi several times during the show. I understand he wanted to understand. He wanted closure. But does it have to be NOW!  (His denied attempts to talk to her prior to AFTR). He clearly desired a Mesnick and should we be slamming Andi for the cold shoulder when clearly Nick's attempts is not just for "understanding". The F2s get their chance of "closure" at the AFTR. Again, why would Nick KNOWING Andi was with Josh even attempt to talk to her post show. For closure or the probable chance he'd get a Mesnick?  Sharleen eloquently wrote "If Andi wanted him, then or now, I think the ball would be in her court to make that clear. If at After The Final Rose she were to pull a Jason Mesnick, again, that's her move to make, not his. No heartfelt letters, visit attempts, or other grand gestures will make her change her mind. It's something that must – and should – come from her, unprompted. I understand the need for closure and wanting to just get it "out there", but After The Final Rose is guaranteed. He'd get his moment to confront her. Any attempts before that are not his responsibility." As i2d posted above, an ex's (when they were freaking 13yo!) attempt to contact her did scare her. Would we blame Andi for feeling the same? oh, is this about the why sleep with me when I wasn't the one type of closure. Andi has been consistent with her answers. People mag was done prior to AFTR, she said she knew it was Josh in the morning of FRC. so I dunno. Test driving someone before I make a decision is not my cup o' tea. But I'm not Andi. And as Sharleen also said, Nick knew what he signed for! Come on, he watched the past shows! Isn't it always the case? A.BLINDSIDED.F2 ALWAYS! Ben F came out a classier F2. Ashley allegedly slept with him, too. Jimmy Kimmel even made fun of her LCD with Ben while JP was beside her. Who would forget the huffing and puffing, furious Ben F walking out on Ashley at the FRC. But did blindsided Ben F blurt out the same thing as Nick did? Nick may have not intended to slut shame Andi but as Sharleen said, he was out of the line. If perhaps he did not make several attempts to reach out to her. Nick would have expected a more compassionate Andi.

That is why I'm all for Nick as The Next Bachelor. I want him to feel how difficult it is to let go of people. I'm pretty sure he'd ramble for words whenever he lets go of contestants.  :Nod:

Cari wrote:

FLChica wrote:

Cari wrote:
I ask of you of this. Will you still be angry with "coldhearted Andi if Nick got a Mesnick? I perused some of the spoiled posts prior to FRC and some were hoping for a Mesnick   

IMHO, I respectfully say, I'm almost certain most would defend Nick and Andi to the heavens. That theirs was the Greatest Love Story if all. That Andi just followed her heart...

And we would be spending pages and pages of this topic of Nick's awesomeness in his ability to "change" Andi's mind because her heart after all was all Nick.

Or not.

 :hidingchair

To answer your question:  in a word, yes.  If MeandI treated Josh exactly the same way she treated Nick, I would still be disgusted by her actions.  Neither of the F2 were my favorite so there isn't any sort of great attachment to Josh or Nick for me.  

I don't view Nick's actions as trying to change MeandI's mind.  He acknowledge several times that Josh is a great guy, they're engaged, etc.  He simply wanted to understand why she treated him the way she did.

 :WAVEY:   

As Sharleen and I almost identically said the same thing. We understand Nick feeling led on especially he came on the show a skeptic. But can't Nick wait for the AFTR? I'm surprised Sharleen expressed the same thing! Why did he have that seemingly URGENT need to contact her through several middlemen just to get "closure. Can't he wait? Oh, yes, we're talking about the same Nick who impulsively goes off and seek Andi several times during the show. I understand he wanted to understand. He wanted closure. But does it have to be NOW!  (His denied attempts to talk to her prior to AFTR). He clearly desired a Mesnick and should we be slamming Andi for the cold shoulder when clearly Nick's attempts is not just for "understanding". The F2s get their chance of "closure" at the AFTR. Again, why would Nick KNOWING Andi was with Josh even attempt to talk to her post show. For closure or the probable chance he'd get a Mesnick?  Sharleen eloquently wrote "If Andi wanted him, then or now, I think the ball would be in her court to make that clear. If at After The Final Rose she were to pull a Jason Mesnick, again, that's her move to make, not his. No heartfelt letters, visit attempts, or other grand gestures will make her change her mind. It's something that must – and should – come from her, unprompted. I understand the need for closure and wanting to just get it "out there", but After The Final Rose is guaranteed. He'd get his moment to confront her. Any attempts before that are not his responsibility." As i2d posted above, an ex's (when they were freaking 13yo!) attempt to contact her did scare her. Would we blame Andi for feeling the same? oh, is this about the why sleep with me when I wasn't the one type of closure. Andi has been consistent with her answers. People mag was done prior to AFTR, she said she knew it was Josh in the morning of FRC. so I dunno. Test driving someone before I make a decision is not my cup o' tea. But I'm not Andi. And as Sharleen also said,  Nick knew what he signed for! Come on, he watched the past shows! Isn't it always the case? A.BLINDSIDED.F2 ALWAYS! Ben F came out a classier F2. Ashley allegedly slept with him, too. Jimmy Kimmel even made fun of her LCD with Ben while JP was beside her. Who would forget the huffing and puffing, furious Ben F walking out on Ashley at the FRC. But did blindsided Ben F blurt out the same thing as Nick did? Nick may have not intended to slut shame Andi but as Sharleen said, he was out of the line. If perhaps he did not make several attempts to reach out to her. Nick would have expected a more compassionate Andi.

That is why I'm all for Nick as The Next Bachelor. I want him to feel how difficult it is to let go of people. I'm pretty sure he'd ramble for words whenever he lets go of contestants.  :Nod:

 :Iloveyou!: That is all!

  

a week being in the spoiled forum have proven to be exhausting. I'm glad to be here in our lil corner.

i've realized a lot of things today. It is hard to prove another is wrong when that person thinks he's always are right. And that is me that i'm talking about! haha so i am in the wrong! Stupid me!