Re: Andi Dorfman and Josh Murray Bachelorette 10 - Media - Twitter - General Discussion Thread

[Ash2214]

You are right the solution for hurt isn't to hurt back. He made a mistake.  He has said he didn't mean to hurt her and regrets the hurt.

Her response three weeks later?  Still trying to hurt him.  Maybe Andi needs to hear your words too.  Nick has stopped talking about Andi, maybe one day soon she will do the same.

Are you Nick's friend? Do you spend time with him? How do you know what he is saying behind closed doors? We don't have the slightest clue about what he still thinks of Andi and Josh because he isn't doing interviews. Andi and Josh don't mention or bring up Nick unless they are asked in interviews. Also, when you weight each others words, telling millions of people that you had sex with the lead is far heavier than telling a local radio station host that Nick's name rhymed with a body part.

Nope,  I just look at his twitter and IG.  But what I do know is that Andi is speaking of Nick in public.  How much is she doing in private, do we know?

Nick has not mentioned Andi for two weeks.  He did only the media that he had to do after the show and a guest blog for Sean.  Andi and Josh are the ones who keep doing media and then she keeps commenting on Nick.  When she is asked. 

Sorry, Nick's bad behavior as excuse for Andi's will eventually need to stop being the excuse. 

People kept asking when Nick would go away and give up, he has.  I am only asking for Andi to stop talking about Nick in turn. 

I work for a university where we have had the awesome PETA come and and tape things in secret and misrepresent them.  We are all instructed to answer any question with no comment.  The question stops getting answered when they don't get an interesting answer.  It is hard.  I would like to tell them much more, how they should never take medicine if they don't believe in animal research and many other things.  But that just extends the question, so I have to say no comment.  So that is what we do.

I bet if Andi stopped making snippy, quippy little comments about Nick, the questions would stop being asked.  It wouldn't be interesting or give the people cute little sound bites.

I did an internship up here in Boston for a fairly prominent radio station and that's not how it worked for us, but anyway..

It's as simple as this. Nick told millions of people they had sex. That's controversial. That's a hot topic that has never been fully discussed on this show. Any smart interviewer that knows what he or she is doing will bring it up. If I was interviewing them, even though I like them both, you bet I would ask them about it. It's my job to get the dirt whether or not I think they're going to respond. It's not because Andi makes small little comments, not to mention the last time Andi and Josh did an interview before the two this past week was almost three weeks ago where they were fairly classy in their responses in comparison to what Nick did.

[stuckinsc]

I have figured out part of what annoys me so much about Andi.  I have a good friend back in Birmingham.  He is a really nice guy, and when he was 28 he met this true southern girl.  She was a very beautiful girl, and they had a whirlwind romance.  After three months, he decided to propose, she told him exactly the kind of ring she wanted, and how much he should spend and everything.  It was a little odd, but he was so in love he didn't care.  

The wedding took 6 months to plan.  It was a hard six months, but he was certain that afterwards she would calm down and it would be great.

It is now three years and one child later.  They are miserable.  She is not a nice person.  She refuses to spend time on anything that isn't what she wants.  When anyone questions her she strikes out and it is always their fault, never hers.  So now it is the stay marry for our child or divorce game.

He wishes he had listened to any of the red flags that came up.  But it is too late now.

I hope that Andi and Josh take there time.  He knows Andi is an ideal bubble.  She hasn't worked or had any real life stress at all during this time.  Her sole stress has been evil Nick.  Again, it is all Nick's fault, none of it is Andi's.  

How is it going to work when they are working jobs and have stressful lives?  Is Josh wealthy enough that she doesn't ever have to work and he can take tons of time off to spend with her?  If so, great.  I am a little jealous, but his skill and talents got him his money, so he deserves what he has.  But, if this isn't everyday life, then maybe it is a good idea to get back to that everyday life and make sure that she is who you think she is.  

I hate watching a good man be sad because he feel in love with a vision and not a real person.

[stuckinsc]

Are you Nick's friend? Do you spend time with him? How do you know what he is saying behind closed doors? We don't have the slightest clue about what he still thinks of Andi and Josh because he isn't doing interviews. Andi and Josh don't mention or bring up Nick unless they are asked in interviews. Also, when you weight each others words, telling millions of people that you had sex with the lead is far heavier than telling a local radio station host that Nick's name rhymed with a body part.

Nope,  I just look at his twitter and IG.  But what I do know is that Andi is speaking of Nick in public.  How much is she doing in private, do we know?

Nick has not mentioned Andi for two weeks.  He did only the media that he had to do after the show and a guest blog for Sean.  Andi and Josh are the ones who keep doing media and then she keeps commenting on Nick.  When she is asked. 

Sorry, Nick's bad behavior as excuse for Andi's will eventually need to stop being the excuse. 

People kept asking when Nick would go away and give up, he has.  I am only asking for Andi to stop talking about Nick in turn. 

I work for a university where we have had the awesome PETA come and and tape things in secret and misrepresent them.  We are all instructed to answer any question with no comment.  The question stops getting answered when they don't get an interesting answer.  It is hard.  I would like to tell them much more, how they should never take medicine if they don't believe in animal research and many other things.  But that just extends the question, so I have to say no comment.  So that is what we do.

I bet if Andi stopped making snippy, quippy little comments about Nick, the questions would stop being asked.  It wouldn't be interesting or give the people cute little sound bites.

I did an internship up here in Boston for a fairly prominent radio station and that's not how it worked for us, but anyway..

It's as simple as this. Nick told millions of people they had sex. That's controversial. That's a hot topic that has never been fully discussed on this show. Any smart interviewer that knows what he or she is doing will bring it up. If I was interviewing them, even though I like them both, you bet I would ask them about it. It's my job to get the dirt whether or not I think they're going to respond. It's not because Andi makes small little comments, not to mention the last time Andi and Josh did an interview before the two this past week was almost three weeks ago where they were fairly classy in their responses in comparison to what Nick did.

Thank you.  The difference between entertainment and news perhaps.  I know in our case, the answer is always no comment. 

I am glad you found Josh and Andi more classy than Nick, IYO.  IMO Nick was about as classy as Josh and Andi.  He answered the question and always made sure to include wishing them the best. 

Again, I don't know any of the three.  I am just listening to what they say.

I am glad you have much more experience in entertainment media then I do.  I am just a scientist. 

I don't find anyone in this messed up situation to have acted perfectly.  I just want them to move on and for us to as well.

[mindless]

I'm not sure if you watched the show before, but the lead has a job to do. Andi got paid to act because ultimately, she was in love with one guy, just like every other lead in every other season. There can only be one and along the way, people will end up hurt and it's usually the worst for the F2. It sucks, but it's the way it goes with this silly show. Andi is under contract and personally, I like that she didn't take Nick to the FRC and have him pick out a ring. That was one thing she had control over because production sure as hell wasn't going to have the final two episodes of the season be of just Josh and Andi. How dramatic!

Hmm. I would bet that writing a letter, essentially telling Andi she took the easy route in picking Josh and questioning her decision, explaining to her how much he loves her and how much he loved their relationship and then basically asking her for a second chance and asking her if she's thought about him pretty much means that Nick was at the very least hoping she would change her mind. He tried to track her down twice and when that didn't work, he had a letter be delivered to her two weeks before they were going to be face to face. He wanted a second chance and from the way he reacted when she told him she was never in love with him, well it seems pretty obvious to me that he thought it was a strong possibility.

I have watched nearly all seasons, but never have I felt this bad for the F2 before. And I wasn't even a fan of Nick really, just grew some appreciation for him for how he handled the BS drama with some of the guys in the house. But he seemed to genuinely fall for her despite all his scepticism and she was encouraging him all the way. She knew how hard it was for him to get over heartbreak and even wanted to talk to him about it, yet she went and led him on even more by sleeping with him. It seems to me that she just wanted to selfishly explore that passion she was going on about, no matter what it meant for him. She's even gone on to say afterwards that she can do what she wants as a woman, as if that was ever the issue. Anyway, it's clear she thinks she's above Nick now, because of one mistake he made, even though she's made plenty herself.

As for the letter, I think he just wanted her to know how he felt about their relationship, and that is actually what he told her when she first came on stage. I think his need to do that had a lot to do with the confusing things she told him in DR. He wanted to give his opinion on how their relationship could be. Of course he also wanted to let her know that he was still an option in case things with Josh weren't working out, but he also mentioned that if she's happy then he wishes her well. To me it didn't sound like he had any expectations.

[aviej]

Andi couldn't get the right words at the ATFR?

Before he even threw out the sex bomb, Andi gave the perfect answer. When CH asked if she ever loved Nick, Andi gave the perfect reply. She stated she had feelings for Nick. She knew that if she were to do this whole process all over again, she would still have the same relationship with Nick that she did the first time. She told him she meant everything she said about him. She said she meant it when she said he made her feel like a woman. She enjoyed getting to know him, but in the end (she also admitted her mistake) she said that she probably should have just said this earlier (probably meaning the initial break up) that in the end, how can you compete with a greater love and a greater relationship. She said there was nothing wrong with Nick, but ultimately she fell in love with Josh and had a greater relationship with him.

That is the perfect answer. She admitted she cared for him and had feelings for him. She admitted the things she said on the show were true. She finally admitted she made a mistake and should have told him sooner, but she fell in love with Josh. She was honest. Not sure what else anyone could have expected her to say. Hell, even after Nick told millions of people, including her friends, her family and Josh's family that Nick had sex with her, what was her reply after talking about how it should have been kept private? She said she respected Nick and the relationship they had together and she even goes further into stating how she meant everything she said about him. If that was me, I wouldn't have been so respectful in that situation. If my ex boyfriend, who I dated for two years (not 10 weeks like Nick) did something similar to me just to my friends and family, I would have lost it on him if he ever told anyone what we did or didn't do behind closed doors.

I can see debating whether or not Andi handled the intial breakup well, but the ATFR? She couldn't have responded more perfectly. Plus there's something called editing. Very possible, like other haves suggested, that we didn't see all of the break up.

I really just think Nick got it in his head that she was going to "pull a Mesnick" and anything else Andi said that night to him wasn't going to be enough. He got upset, angry, hurt, what have you when she said she was never in love with him. His response was to hurt her the way she hurt him. It's as simple as that for me.

ITO! Excellent post! Could not have articulated it any better!

[Lucas15]

I agree with both of you.  I was feeling sorry for Nick ( ATFR) but when, suddenly, he was quiet for a minute or so then he said " if you don't love me..." I just knew what he was going to say and I am like, " No! No! don't say it.. " but HE said it anyway. Darn!  You don't know how many times I watched ATFR again, I still think that he did it deliberately.  

Nick reminds me of my younger brother.  When we were little (I was quite naughty!)  if he couldn't get something from me, he'd threaten me with " I'm going to tell Mom ..."

It's just my CDO showing but it was 52 seconds of quiet as Nick got to the punchline. I would call it OCD but that's not in alphabetical order (but CDO is). It sure wasn't just blurted out, IMHO. It appeared to me that he knew what he was going to ask and thought about it long enough to have stopped if he wanted to. He never did get an answer to the question; not then and not since then.

You know there is page after page of posts suggesting that Andi slept with Nick to lead him on, or for some sort of personal conquest and yet no one has ever commented on any other reason she might have done it, so I might as well because we are never going to hear anything from Andi.

I agree with Nick that there is a difference between having sex and making love. When you do that with someone you love in other ways it draws two people closer and creates additional bonds between them which is really quite wonderful and important in a marriage. Why isn't it possible that Andi wanted to determine how she would react to intimacy with Nick as a way of determining her full feelings for him and that was why she did what she did - to give their relationship every chance at success that she possibly could at that time? And it turned out that for her, it wasn't making love, it was just sex.

I've been thinking about Cari's revelation of Nick's tweet -- the song "Shout" and the meaning of the lyrics..., very interesting to say the least.

I know.

One of my favorite songs of all time is Fleetwood Mac's "Go YOur Own Way". I love the beat and the drum work and Lindsay Buckingham's vocals and it took me years before I ever read the lyrics and background. It's a breakup song (written by Lindsay Buckingham after his breakup with Stevie Nicks) and actually kind of sad. I still like it but not like I did before.

Maybe Nick just likes "Shout" for the melody and (like me) doesn't pay attention to the lyrics but "Shout" is really a song about revenge for heartbreak; there's a very "dark side" to it.

[ironcat]

I'm sure that Andi would have liked nothing better than to let Nick go the morning after her FD with Josh, but there was no way the producers were going to allow that, which would have resulted in having the show's outcome revealed in the penultimate episode, thus removing all suspense for a 2 hour finale.  Some of these critiques and comments, which would be very valid if this relationship were being conducted in the real world, are just assuming/expecting things that simply weren't possible/viable within the confines of a TV show produced for entertainment purposes, first and foremost.

Breakups are tough under the best of circumstances, and having to do so on the same day you are probably getting engaged can't be very pleasant.  I suspect that Andi recognized that morning that she had taken things further with Nick, in an effort to be absolutely certain that she would ultimately make the best choice (something that may have felt necessary and right to her at the time), than she wished she had in hindsight, and that made her feel extra uncomfortable with him, and in the mindset of just wanting to get it over with.  I find it a very normal, if not a particularly noble, reaction to feel more uncomfortable with someone you have been physically intimate with once it "goes bad" than with someone you haven't, which is why it didn't surprise me that she showed much more emotion and regret with Chris than with Nick.  They always say the opposite of love is indifference, and once she knew she didn't love Nick and would never love Nick, she became indifferent to him. And I agree that she was probably already expecting him to take it very badly and maybe try to talk her out of it, which could have made her stiffen her resolve even more.  And adding to this further still, since she may not have been able to speak about Josh during the breakup, she chose to go a very dispassionate route, and gave Nick a rather clinical answer (and a very insightful one, as it turns out, but probably not one that he appreciated at the time) as to why she was breaking up with him.

We don't know if Nick would have reacted better to a warmer and more emotional approach from her, had she been able to muster it.  Maybe, but I think she feared that they would spend hours discussing/arguing about it if she had, which she certainly didn't want to do on her engagement day.

[Ash2214]

I'm sure that Andi would have liked nothing better than to let Nick go the morning after her FD with Josh, but there was no way the producers were going to allow that, which would have resulted in having the show's outcome revealed in the penultimate episode, thus removing all suspense for a 2 hour finale.  Some of these critiques and comments, which would be very valid if this relationship were being conducted in the real world, are just assuming/expecting things that simply weren't possible/viable within the confines of a TV show produced for entertainment purposes, first and foremost.

Breakups are tough under the best of circumstances, and having to do so on the same day you are probably getting engaged can't be very pleasant.  I suspect that Andi recognized that morning that she had taken things further with Nick, in an effort to be absolutely certain that she would ultimately make the best choice (something that may have felt necessary and right to her at the time), than she wished she had in hindsight, and that made her feel extra uncomfortable with him, and in the mindset of just wanting to get it over with.  I find it a very normal, if not a particularly noble, reaction to feel more uncomfortable with someone you have been physically intimate with once it "goes bad" than with someone you haven't, which is why it didn't surprise me that she showed much more emotion and regret with Chris than with Nick.  They always say the opposite of love is indifference, and once she knew she didn't love Nick and would never love Nick, she became indifferent to him. And I agree that she was probably already expecting him to take it very badly and maybe try to talk her out of it, which could have made her stiffen her resolve even more.  And adding to this further still, since she may not have been able to speak about Josh during the breakup, she chose to go a very dispassionate route, and gave Nick a rather clinical answer (and a very insightful one, as it turns out, but probably not one that he appreciated at the time) as to why she was breaking up with him.

We don't know if Nick would have reacted better to a warmer and more emotional approach from her, had she been able to muster it.  Maybe, but I think she feared that they would spend hours discussing/arguing about it if she had, which she certainly didn't want to do on her engagement day.

  I think this is a great explanation and the perfect way to end this whole conversation.

[Ash2214]

I agree with both of you.  I was feeling sorry for Nick ( ATFR) but when, suddenly, he was quiet for a minute or so then he said " if you don't love me..." I just knew what he was going to say and I am like, " No! No! don't say it.. " but HE said it anyway. Darn!  You don't know how many times I watched ATFR again, I still think that he did it deliberately.  

Nick reminds me of my younger brother.  When we were little (I was quite naughty!)  if he couldn't get something from me, he'd threaten me with " I'm going to tell Mom ..."

It's just my CDO showing but it was 52 seconds of quiet as Nick got to the punchline. I would call it OCD but that's not in alphabetical order (but CDO is). It sure wasn't just blurted out, IMHO. It appeared to me that he knew what he was going to ask and thought about it long enough to have stopped if he wanted to. He never did get an answer to the question; not then and not since then.

You know there is page after page of posts suggesting that Andi slept with Nick to lead him on, or for some sort of personal conquest and yet no one has ever commented on any other reason she might have done it, so I might as well because we are never going to hear anything from Andi.

I agree with Nick that there is a difference between having sex and making love. When you do that with someone you love in other ways it draws two people closer and creates additional bonds between them which is really quite wonderful and important in a marriage. Why isn't it possible that Andi wanted to determine how she would react to intimacy with Nick as a way of determining her full feelings for him and that was why she did what she did - to give their relationship every chance at success that she possibly could at that time? And it turned out that for her, it wasn't making love, it was just sex.

I've been thinking about Cari's revelation of Nick's tweet -- the song "Shout" and the meaning of the lyrics..., very interesting to say the least.

I know.

One of my favorite songs of all time is Fleetwood Mac's "Go YOur Own Way". I love the beat and the drum work and Lindsay Buckingham's vocals and it took me years before I ever read the lyrics and background. It's a breakup song (written by Lindsay Buckingham after his breakup with Stevie Nicks) and actually kind of sad. I still like it but not like I did before.

Maybe Nick just likes "Shout" for the melody and (like me) doesn't pay attention to the lyrics but "Shout" is really a song about revenge for heartbreak; there's a very "dark side" to it.

It will forever be one of my all time favorites

[aviej]

I'm sure that Andi would have liked nothing better than to let Nick go the morning after her FD with Josh, but there was no way the producers were going to allow that, which would have resulted in having the show's outcome revealed in the penultimate episode, thus removing all suspense for a 2 hour finale.  Some of these critiques and comments, which would be very valid if this relationship were being conducted in the real world, are just assuming/expecting things that simply weren't possible/viable within the confines of a TV show produced for entertainment purposes, first and foremost.

Breakups are tough under the best of circumstances, and having to do so on the same day you are probably getting engaged can't be very pleasant.  I suspect that Andi recognized that morning that she had taken things further with Nick, in an effort to be absolutely certain that she would ultimately make the best choice (something that may have felt necessary and right to her at the time), than she wished she had in hindsight, and that made her feel extra uncomfortable with him, and in the mindset of just wanting to get it over with.  I find it a very normal, if not a particularly noble, reaction to feel more uncomfortable with someone you have been physically intimate with once it "goes bad" than with someone you haven't, which is why it didn't surprise me that she showed much more emotion and regret with Chris than with Nick.  They always say the opposite of love is indifference, and once she knew she didn't love Nick and would never love Nick, she became indifferent to him. And I agree that she was probably already expecting him to take it very badly and maybe try to talk her out of it, which could have made her stiffen her resolve even more.  And adding to this further still, since she may not have been able to speak about Josh during the breakup, she chose to go a very dispassionate route, and gave Nick a rather clinical answer (and a very insightful one, as it turns out, but probably not one that he appreciated at the time) as to why she was breaking up with him.

We don't know if Nick would have reacted better to a warmer and more emotional approach from her, had she been able to muster it.  Maybe, but I think she feared that they would spend hours discussing/arguing about it if she had, which she certainly didn't want to do on her engagement day.

I agree wholeheartedly with the post, especially with the bolded part. Please do remember that in JPG season what changed everything for her was the FD - that was the telling moment for her. Thus, in addition to the pressure from TPTB to go through the process and test her relationship with Josh as a "litmus test" (according to CH), she NEEDED to see the FD through. Because based on last season, the FD gives the relationship a new perspective. I honestly believe she went into the FD with Nick thinking, okay maybe without the cameras things would be more smooth, that I'd feel more OR she would have thought that the FD with Josh she might realise that it was just infatuation and that there was nothing more. She knew that FD have such a compelling impact on the relationship that she just had to test both waters to clear her doubts. And as we all know, after the FD with Josh well...it was game over!

[vivi2]

I'm sure that Andi would have liked nothing better than to let Nick go the morning after her FD with Josh, but there was no way the producers were going to allow that, which would have resulted in having the show's outcome revealed in the penultimate episode, thus removing all suspense for a 2 hour finale.  Some of these critiques and comments, which would be very valid if this relationship were being conducted in the real world, are just assuming/expecting things that simply weren't possible/viable within the confines of a TV show produced for entertainment purposes, first and foremost.

Breakups are tough under the best of circumstances, and having to do so on the same day you are probably getting engaged can't be very pleasant.  I suspect that Andi recognized that morning that she had taken things further with Nick, in an effort to be absolutely certain that she would ultimately make the best choice (something that may have felt necessary and right to her at the time), than she wished she had in hindsight, and that made her feel extra uncomfortable with him, and in the mindset of just wanting to get it over with.  I find it a very normal, if not a particularly noble, reaction to feel more uncomfortable with someone you have been physically intimate with once it "goes bad" than with someone you haven't, which is why it didn't surprise me that she showed much more emotion and regret with Chris than with Nick.  They always say the opposite of love is indifference, and once she knew she didn't love Nick and would never love Nick, she became indifferent to him. And I agree that she was probably already expecting him to take it very badly and maybe try to talk her out of it, which could have made her stiffen her resolve even more.  And adding to this further still, since she may not have been able to speak about Josh during the breakup, she chose to go a very dispassionate route, and gave Nick a rather clinical answer (and a very insightful one, as it turns out, but probably not one that he appreciated at the time) as to why she was breaking up with him.

We don't know if Nick would have reacted better to a warmer and more emotional approach from her, had she been able to muster it.  Maybe, but I think she feared that they would spend hours discussing/arguing about it if she had, which she certainly didn't want to do on her engagement day.

I agree wholeheartedly with the post, especially with the bolded part. Please do remember that in JPG season what changed everything for her was the FD - that was the telling moment for her. Thus, in addition to the pressure from TPTB to go through the process and test her relationship with Josh as a "litmus test" (according to CH), she NEEDED to see the FD through. Because based on last season, the FD gives the relationship a new perspective. I honestly believe she went into the FD with Nick thinking, okay maybe without the cameras things would be more smooth, that I'd feel more OR she would have thought that the FD with Josh she might realise that it was just infatuation and that there was nothing more. She knew that FD have such a compelling impact on the relationship that she just had to test both waters to clear her doubts. And as we all know, after the FD with Josh well...it was game over!

VERY , VERY well said.

[mindless]

I'm sure that Andi would have liked nothing better than to let Nick go the morning after her FD with Josh, but there was no way the producers were going to allow that, which would have resulted in having the show's outcome revealed in the penultimate episode, thus removing all suspense for a 2 hour finale.  Some of these critiques and comments, which would be very valid if this relationship were being conducted in the real world, are just assuming/expecting things that simply weren't possible/viable within the confines of a TV show produced for entertainment purposes, first and foremost.

No, she didn't have to let him go in the penultimate episode. There was plenty of time during the finale as well. Many leads have let the F2 go right at the start of their last date and even before meeting the parents. I don't know how the producers could stop Andi from doing it, since they've allowed it before. I'm sure they strongy adviced her to keep him around as long as possible, but my point was that I'm not gonna give her any credit for dumping him a few hours before the FRC, because it was just as beneficial to her as it was to him. If that's her evidence that she cared for him and respected their relationship, then it doesn't hold up in my court. She still used him. And it's not like the producers seemed all that worried about suspense, since they published Nick's letter the day before the finale. Anyone could tell who it was from.

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