Re: Chris Soules - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #3

[sbolduc]

I tend to believe both Andrew and JJ, I don't think JJ is making it up and I don't think Andrew said exactly what JJ said he said.

I get why the guys were upset with him, in the sense that why didn't he approach Andrew as soon as it happened and why did he use Marquel to have to deal with the situation. At the same time I also understand why JJ didn't bring it up immediately, they literally just met hours earlier and I know I wouldn't want to stir that type of trouble up at that point. JJ made a point that he had made really really good friends with Marquel at that point and that is why he told him. I also think that JJ and Nick were extremely drunk in that scene (look at their purple teeth and Nick commented he had drank an entire bottle of wine). I think JJ heard something, told producers/Nick later on then was coerced (by producers) that he should tell Marquel (because they were great friends) and what better time then when you have a lot of liquid courage.

In regards to Chris, I really like Chris and I really appreciated that he has been so candid to each of the guys and to their faces. Whatever he has said he has said to them not behind their backs. What he has said about Nick is obviously water under the bridge, and I think that is largely due to them dealing with the issues to each other's faces. There wouldn't be anything that Nick saw that Chris said that he would have been shocked about.

I did feel bad for JJ last night, I get what the guys were saying, but I also felt bad especially if he was telling the truth about Andrew, which I believe in some capacity it was.

[SLA44]

To each their own.  I would trust JJ (who had no lies on the lie detector test) over Andrew any day.  Kind of surprised to see so many defending Andrew.  No thanks.

I wasn't sticking up for Andrew but I certainly wouldn't stick up for JJ after the way he would stir the pot weeks after the fact and would never confront Andrew himself.  Chris and Brian also had not lies on the lie detector test but I don't believe that the word JJ said to Marquel was the word that was actually said.  Because of JJ's behavior I did not see him to be a stand-up type of guy but I did think that Chris was and did not see anything wrong in what Chris said at the MTA.  JMO

[Cecilia]

To each their own.  I would trust JJ (who had no lies on the lie detector test) over Andrew any day.  Kind of surprised to see so many defending Andrew.  No thanks.

I'm not defending Andrew, not at all.  If Andrew made any comments then he can stand there and take it like a grown ass man(to quote Josh   )  But if JJ was so offended with Andrews comments why not say something earlier?  why not when the guys were ragging on Andrew for having some girls phone number?  Wasn't is JJ that also told the guys that Andrew had a girls phone number?  
It's obvious many of the guys weren't fond of JJ and I see nothing wrong with Chris saying what he did.  We have no idea the extent of what went on in the house, only an edited version.  Josh certainly had a go with Andrew and I didn't see anyone calling him out for it.

Maybe he didn't say anything earlier because it is such a sensitive topic and he was hoping Andrew would get sent home. I imagine it colored his opinion of him and possibly led to him enlisting Josh to call him out on the waitress number incident. Regardless, not all men are the same and I agree it probably would be better to have gone directly to Andrew. I just think JJ isn't that tough guy and was probably intimidated without getting someone else on his side in this strange environment. I still saw no reason to attack him and even people who love Chris (Molly Mesnick) thought it was odd that Chris went off the rails on JJ.

Also - I think Nick is way more polarizing than Chris. Like I said earlier, I was fine with him (although I think he is a bit boring but I feel that way about most of these contestants) just don't like when his temper flares up and he acts all self-righteous. I just think the "nice guy" is only one part of him.

[GuardianAngel]

Obviously Chris is somebody you either really like or dislike. Folks are not neutral about him, as you can read on the abc.com messageboards. Yet I personally think he was fair and just with Nick post show, both meeting up in Chicago.

Those who simply tell you what they think in a direct manner are either going to be respected for their honesty or disliked for being "blunt". Whatever his faults, he can't be accused of simply gossiping about people behind their backs. He told Nick to his face that he made a jackass move and told Jay-Jay that he can stay "sour grapes" if he was unhappy with Brian congratulating him and others for getting the group rose.

Now... I am NOT going to defend anybody here, but simply state what we have in print online. Chris was the first contestant to discuss Nick's, JJ and Andrew's actions on screen

From June 20th


Reality TV World: Many of the guys seemed to have an issue with Nick and all that frontrunner talk and what not. Chris Harrison said in his blog this week that he's unsure whether Nick is kind of an arrogant guy and bragged about his successes or whether the other guys were just jealous about the attention he was getting from Andi. Could you talk about the issue you personally had with Nick and maybe elaborate on what problems the other guys had?

Chris Soules: You know, I think Nick is a good guy and I see -- I understand where a lot of the guys are coming from, and I can't say that I don't have some similar feelings that maybe he handled things poorly.  Honestly, I felt like some situations throughout the process, he handled differently than other people.

And in an environment like this, it's tough to know how you're going to handle it, quite honestly.  So, you can't -- it's hard to truly judge somebody as a person because it's such a different situation.  And you're being put in there with -- it started out as 25 and has been narrowed down -- I don't know where we're at now, nine.

So, I can see where the guys are coming from.  And I honestly have felt like Nick has handled it differently than a lot of the guys, and sometimes you don't feel the same level of respect given from Nick to other guys. And I think the feelings aren't jealousy, for the most part.

I think we all would be naive to really get too jealous of other guys because we all knew the situation we were being put in with Andi.  And we all have strong feelings for her and feel like we're all frontrunners in our own mind, I think, to a certain extent.

To be openly saying that to the other guys, it's just, I don't think that's the right way to go about it when you're -- keep that to yourself if you feel that way, I guess.  It's kind of how I handle myself personally.

So, I think it more comes down to a certain level of tact and way of being a gentleman towards other human beings that you're actually having to be around for a long period of time and going through a really difficult process together.

And it's very difficult on all of us.  And so, emotions get involved, and that develops.  People can get upset and feel a little bit put off by how Nick has handled the situation.  That's how I personally feel.

Reality TV World: Andi seems to have a hard time trusting Josh Murray.  And even though he's only been on a single one-on-one date, he seems to be a pretty big personality and at the center of some stuff this season.  So, could you share your general thoughts about Josh with me?

Chris Soules:  I think Josh is a great guy.  I have a lot of respect for Josh.  And, you know, I think there's -- I don't know where the level of trust is or isn't with Andi and Josh.  But I think, personally, I think he's a very stand-up guy.  And I have a lot of respect for him.

Reality TV World: Andrew seemed to be at the center of a couple controversies this season -- with one being allegedly getting a waitress' phone number and the other being the offensive remark he allegedly whispered to one of the guys during the first Rose Ceremony about Marquel Martin. What was your take on Andrew and the fact he said in his final words he felt bullied by the other bachelors?

Chris Soules:  You know, I don't -- the fact that he felt bullied is -- I mean, that's how he felt.  And I can't argue that.  You know, he was in the middle of a few slightly controversial issues.  But, you know, I don't know if the comment was made or not made.  So if it wasn't, that's too bad that he was put in that position.

And at the beginning, early on in the show with the phone number, that was another tough situation.  I don't know.  I don't know why that -- the situation -- everybody deals with situations differently.  And that's kind of how he chose to deal with it.  You get dealt a hand and you play those cards the best you can, and that's kind of how he played his hand.

And I don't know if he really was bullied.  I mean, I think he's a strong guy and can stand up for himself.  I think he did it well, for the most part.  It's slightly questionable how he handled the phone number thing.  But it was a tough situation to be put in, to get cornered by two guys and then, once again, by Marquel.

So whether he was bullied or not, that's how he felt, and that's unfortunate.  And I guess, honestly, I have respect for Andrew.  And it's too bad that he felt that way.  And maybe everybody could've handled things a little differently and it would have been better for everybody.  But I guess it's unfortunate he feels that way.  It's really all I can say about that, for the most part.

Reality TV World: It appeared like JJ O'Brien was actually the one who brought up both of those controversial issues to the other bachelors.  Do you think that's just kind of a coincidence or do you think it's fair to say JJ was kind of singling Andrew out for some reason?  Because some viewers are saying JJ seems like a little bit of a gossip since he never actually confronts Andi with these problems.

Chris Soules:  Right.  You know, I don't know.  And I don't know why it's -- I don't quite understand why JJ is always behind these things.  But, you know, if I was put in a similar situation, I don't know how I'd handle it, quite honestly.

I'm glad I wasn't the one with that information or had or hadn't heard those comments.  I don't know if he's a gossip or not, but it kind of comes across that way.  But he's also doing what he feels best.

But JJ's a big guy.  We're also under an intense situation where you maybe handle things a little differently than you would in a normal environment, because you are dating the same person and a lot of emotions come up where you're gong to be more mindful and more outspoken about things, questions you have about individuals and bring those things up quicker.

And, yes, I don't know. It would have been nice to see things handled better by everybody, I think, is probably the long and short [version] of the answer that I can give.  It's disappointing that those kind of things had to have been brought up in the fashion that they were, where it kind of put a damper on the night, on the last cocktail party.

And after the group date, it kind of put a damper on things, and it would have been nice to see Nick handle it differently, with maybe a little more respect towards Andrew at certain points of the evening.

Read more at http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/the-bachelorette-chris-soules-nick-viall-gloats-and-just-handles-situations-poorly-not-like-gentleman-with-tact-16449.php#DUK1O47bpyUqwzl8.99

Thanks for sharing this. It gives us some insight on who Chris is since we didn't see much of him. Now we know, the next F3 that is so hidden, is probably in TB running.

[Guest]

To each their own.  I would trust JJ (who had no lies on the lie detector test) over Andrew any day.  Kind of surprised to see so many defending Andrew.  No thanks.

I'm not defending Andrew, not at all.  If Andrew made any comments then he can stand there and take it like a grown ass man(to quote Josh   )  But if JJ was so offended with Andrews comments why not say something earlier?  why not when the guys were ragging on Andrew for having some girls phone number?  Wasn't is JJ that also told the guys that Andrew had a girls phone number?  
It's obvious many of the guys weren't fond of JJ and I see nothing wrong with Chris saying what he did.  We have no idea the extent of what went on in the house, only an edited version.  Josh certainly had a go with Andrew and I didn't see anyone calling him out for it.

Maybe he didn't say anything earlier because it is such a sensitive topic and he was hoping Andrew would get sent home.  I imagine it colored his opinion of him and possibly led to him enlisting Josh to call him out on the waitress number incident.  Regardless, not all men are the same and I agree it probably would be better to have gone directly to Andrew.  I just think JJ isn't that tough guy and was probably intimidated without getting someone else on his side in this strange environment.  I still saw no reason to attack him and even people who love Chris (Molly Mesnick) thought it was odd that Chris went off the rails on JJ.

Also - I think Nick is way more polarizing than Chris.  Like I said earlier,  I was fine with him (although I think he is a bit boring but I feel that way about most of these contestants) just don't like when his temper flares up and he acts all self-righteous.  I just think the "nice guy" is only one part of him.

I come in peace    I'm not trying to argue on whether Andrew is a db, or whom said what, because more than likely he is  :giggle: ... but to the highlighted, none of us were there and can really get a grasp as to what went on in the house with the guys. The only point I was trying to make is that for so many of the other guys to agree with what Chris was saying, makes me wonder what all went on... I think it was more than just JJ calling out Andrew.

[stuckinsc]

To me, Andrew showed who he was and how he thinks when he confused Marquel and Ron or just couldn't be bothered to remember the name of the guy who asked him a direct question.

That alone spoke more to me than the words at the RC which was in the middle of the night after a lot of alcohol and probably being a little punch drunk.

It has been talked about if minority bachelorettes and bachelors are kept on purpose or what on boards like this. To me saying she picked both black guys is more an observation of cool, she picked them both it isn't just a token thing. But that is probably me looking through my bias tinted glasses.

Andrew acted like a douchebag most of the season, no matter what he said during the first RC.

[Luvstruck]

JBF did you see Chris H latest blog at the end he says:

"Now, Andi has narrowed it down to Nick and Josh. Next Monday night it’s the live Bachelorette finale event. We’ll all watch Andi make her final choice, and then we’ll all be together for the live After the Final Rose special, where, as you saw, one big surprise awaits. What is the letter all about, and could it shake up the very foundation of this entire season? Make sure you tune in next Monday night for what is destined to be an unbelievably exciting and dramatic night."

Maybe Andi throws her hands up in the air and says these two guys are driving me crazy I'm ready for some peace and quiet in the country, bring farmer Chris back!!! haha It would for sure shake the foundation of this season but make his edit make sense.

[jlccaz]

To me, Soules had a 100% Classic F3 Edit and Story. No flaws in the Edit ... classic set-up to manipulate audience into "loving him", empathisizing, and "wanting True Love" for him next time around ... cue announcement that he gets "his chance" at love. Like Danielle's Dead Boyfriend in Andy B. season, Chris had a one-dimensional edit ("if the Perfect Man lives in Iowa, is that a dealbreaker").

[JBF]

The days of "classic F3", "classic F2" and "classic F1" are long gone... or they never existed but we posters created them in our minds.

Going by the MTA show, I would say the Andi-Chris relationship is over and has "closure". Yet it still raises questions as to why he was edited the way he was with all of those "husband" and "man of her dreams" references. Kinda makes me suspect that she came into this looking for a husband, but leaves with simply a "great love" with only the prospect of marriage in the future.

In any case, the edit didn't make much sense this season. Then again... does it ever, really? The Spoilers and their influence on viewers probably changed a lot of their earlier storyline techniques and now it is done much like THE AMAZING RACE with the lead mostly speaking "in real time", fussing over this contestant first then another later in the season. You can no longer determine "who wins" simply by analyzing episode #1 anymore.

[SLA44]

The days of "classic F3", "classic F2" and "classic F1" are long gone... or they never existed but we posters created them in our minds.

Going by the MTA show, I would say the Andi-Chris relationship is over and has "closure". Yet it still raises questions as to why he was edited the way he was with all of those "husband" and "man of her dreams" references. Kinda makes me suspect that she came into this looking for a husband, but leaves with simply a "great love" with only the prospect of marriage in the future.

In any case, the edit didn't make much sense this season. Then again... does it ever, really? The Spoilers and their influence on viewers probably changed a lot of their earlier storyline techniques and now it is done much like THE AMAZING RACE with the lead mostly speaking "in real time", fussing over this contestant first then another later in the season. You can no longer determine "who wins" simply by analyzing episode #1 anymore.

I agree with the bolded. This whole season was weird to me and I think that CH is just playing more of his mind games with what he says in his blog. With CH, I will believe it when I see it.

[Tiggerlgh]

From my sisters friend who grew up near Chris and knows him

.My aunt said they have been filming there like crazy so I'm pretty sure he is going to be the next bachelor.

[JBF]

Regarding Chris' edit... Take, for example, lines like these...

"Maybe all I have to do is bet on the right horse…" as the camera stays focused on Chris.

What is the point of that edit? Granted his horse #5 lost and hers #9 won, the sentences preceding this concern wanting a long lasting marriage.

These lines would technically rule out Josh, but make the F1 option Nick open too:

"If I wasn't open to moving somewhere else, I might as well not have come here. I might as well stay in Atlanta and try to date someone there."

"Josh is my type. Nailed it. Pegged it. Damn!" followed by "There's a reason I'm single and here, y'know what I mean? So maybe my type's gonna change".

One way to view these lines are as deceptive throw-aways to fool viewers. She does say "maybe" her type will change, much like Stepmother Tremain tells Cinderella in the Disney animated feature that "maybe" she can go the the ball "if" she gets all of her work done.

I have no problem with the "Jodi Love Story". I do have a problem with how the spoilers have ruined this franchise to the point that 90% of what we see on screen is one big "Fooled You!" simply to get viewers watching despite already knowing the ending.

JBF did you see Chris H latest blog at the end he says:

"Now, Andi has narrowed it down to Nick and Josh. Next Monday night it’s the live Bachelorette finale event. We’ll all watch Andi make her final choice, and then we’ll all be together for the live After the Final Rose special, where, as you saw, one big surprise awaits. What is the letter all about, and could it shake up the very foundation of this entire season? Make sure you tune in next Monday night for what is destined to be an unbelievably exciting and dramatic night."  

Maybe Andi throws her hands up in the air and says these two guys are driving me crazy I'm ready for some peace and quiet in the country, bring farmer Chris back!!! haha It would for sure shake the foundation of this season but make his edit make sense.

I was thinking about this later. How could the letter shake up the "foundation"? Funny thing, she said she and Chris lacked a "foundation" and that is why she dumped him.

Of course, the letter is either from Nick or Josh this time, since Harrison says "final two".

I am reminded of a tweet of Chris Lambton's regarding all "Chrises" being good people or some such statement. Soules retweeted it.

What made this season confusing is that Andi, like Ali, may have come into this with a too narrow and too idealistic of a goal... to find a husband. Of course, Chris may have been the one that production thought fit that "mold" even though Nick and Josh talk the talk a lot in PI sessions. (Josh in particular has recently been laying the word "wife" pretty thick.) Yet I think Andi and Ali both had "epiphanies" mid-season and discovered that longterm commitment is something they may not be so sure about after only two months of multiple dates on a TV show. We can include all she discussed on JJ's "growing old" date, hinting that she may no longer be sure of that kind of relationship being found this quickly on a TV show.

This speech some of us thought was about her uncertainty of both Josh (lie detector test) and Chris (the latter shown during all of this before he reveals himself as the Secret Admirer): "It is tough being in my position and feeling vulnerable. You know… I’m not here putting my life on hold. I’m not putting myself out there, y’know, opening myself up for nothing. I came here for love. I came here for eternal love, for a husband and I don’t know how genuine it is. Just tough to feel like I was maybe so wrong."

Now... I am thinking this speech is really about Andi sobbing about... Andi. She thought she wanted all of this, but maybe isn't ready for it as much as she thought. She needs more time. We can include Marcus' storyline here too, about him falling for her too fast and she wasn't "up to speed". With Josh, she is only gradually letting her "guard" down... and he acknowledged that she has doubts and will be patient...

I guess. Just trying to make heads and tails out of this messed up season.

In the seasonal promo, she tells Chris in a snipped from episode #2 scene: "You want to believe everybody is here to fall in love, but realistically that is not true. You know that is not true. I know that's not true." Everybody includes herself. Simply put, she is explaining to Chris that she may not fall in love with HIM.

The editors were also cute about lining these two quotes together in the promo: "There's something that’s not right about the way that I feel right now..." Then her lecturing the guys: "If you don't feel this is real, the door is right there. This is so real to me. Every single day this is real to me." Apparently her feelings are not matching the guys... or all of the guys.

Maybe there is a Neil Lane ring involved at the end of this, maybe not. Not sure if I see her "married" to either of her final guys anytime soon, but can easily see her just dating him outside The Bubble first. Maybe one of the finalists (either Nick or Josh) really "promises" marriage more than The Other Guy, but she chooses The Other Guy because he simply "likes what we have and want to see what develops later".

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