Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 9 - Fantasy Dates - July 14/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion - Thread #2

[ironcat]

I think the reason Hy was at the M&G was because the producers wanted it. He got a lot of positive response from fans after Andi's HTD and I suspect they wanted to capitalize on that interest, but maybe his behavior was too tame and not confrontational enough with the guys so they ended up editing out his appearance. I doubt that Andi insisted Daddy be there to choose for her.   

My best friend's daughter had bed wetting issues until she was 9 or 10. It was a combination of being a really deep sleeper and some physiological issue. She is an extremely bright, popular and well-adjusted kid, so I'm not reading that much into Andi's situation, and think it's quite a stretch to connect it somehow with why she chose Josh.

[Longhornfan]

I think the reason Hy was at the M&G was because the producers wanted it.  He got a lot of positive response from fans after Andi's HTD and I suspect they wanted to capitalize on that interest, but maybe his behavior was too tame and not confrontational enough with the guys so they ended up editing out his appearance.  I doubt that Andi insisted Daddy be there to choose for her.   

My best friend's daughter had bed wetting issues until she was 9 or 10.  It was a combination of being a really deep sleeper and some physiological issue.  She is an extremely bright, popular and well-adjusted kid, so I'm not reading that much into Andi's situation, and think it's quite a stretch to connect it somehow with why she chose Josh.

My son was a bed wetter, which I attributed to the fact he was a really deep sleeper, and somehow the message that he needed to get up and go urinate did not get to his consciousness.  He was 11 years old when he had his last incidence, then it ended after that.  He had no control over it, and it was embarrassing for him, since he was afraid of having or going to sleepovers.

I do believe that it might be hereditary too, because there is a family member that I know of on my ex-husband's side of the family that wet the bed.  My oldest grandson who is 6 years old has also had problems with wetting the bed, and he too goes into a very deep sleep.  I am sure that there could be medical as well as emotional problems that could cause a child to wet the bed too, but that was not the case for my son, nor is it for my grandson.

[melanie1]

I wouldn't completely say it is assumption "Andi acknowledges" that he got the best FD and most expensive or something to that nature just as they are walking up to dinner going into the night portion of the over nites. IMO, i dont think she would say that to Josh if it did not hold some merit by her standards anyway. For some reason she felt it important to let him know he got the best and by past history of the show the chosen one has always gotten the better fantasy date and suite and usually is the last to get there date which we know Josh was last during the filming. TPTB tried to make us think he was second, silly one's         

The bolded and the fact that we heard Andi tell Josh to listen to the words of the song on their first 1 on 1 date gives me reason to pause.  I don't recall ever hearing a Lead give that much information to their F1.  

Brad told Emily he loved her on their fd and Ashley literally told JP "I want to give myself to you" in episode 6.

Is that a new Andi interview? Where is that quote from? Thanks

[MiaHawk]

I just want to clarify some things I said and perhaps how they have been interpreted by others.

I totally agree (and stated in my OP) that Andi's bed wetting could have been from a physical/physiological situation. Like many have posted, it could have been a small bladder, deep sleeping, lack of nerve signal, etc. I was simply looking at one common cause of childhood bed wetting, stress, and say that perhaps perfectionism and competitive athletics led to a heightened level of childhood stress.

Some people develop a perfectionist mindset because that is what has been modeled by their parents and others are simply born with that predisposition. I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of the bed wetting, because, truly, it isn't a big deal. But, that is what we do on this board...make a big deal out of little things and try to make them fit patterns.

I don't study screen caps or SM the way that some of you do. I am more interested in human behavior, which, in all honesty, requires many more assumptions than does something in print (like a SC or SM). I'm not trying to bad mouth anyone. I'm just trying to express what I believe that I am observing and try to figure out possible reasons for that behavior.

I do not think that Andi chose Josh simply to make Hy happy. I think she wants a guy like her dad, and Josh is the most similar to Hy. I believe she fell in love with Josh because he is her type and he will fit into her life the best. She is drawn to a big, strong, assertive male who will protect her and make her feel safe. Josh is also charismatic, witty, and fun. She is drawn to his light and happy ways.

I do, however, believe that Hy, with his big, strong, assertive personality has been a huge influence over what Andi feels she wants and needs in a spouse. For example, I've been happily married for 25 years, and I never have felt like I need a man or a spouse to protect me or make me feel safe. Protect me from what? Make me feel safe from what? I'm a smart and grounded person, as is Andi. What fears does she bring to the table and why does she have those fears? And if they are not fears, persay, then would we call them expectations or norms? Like the expectation, perhaps, that her spouse will be the one to shoulder many of the mundane burdens of marriage---finances, disciplining their children, other self-sacrifices?

I guess I am still just trying to figure out who Andi is and what makes her tick. I do believe she chose Josh because she loved him more and he was her "best one" for multiple reasons. I guess I just feel like she has been the one lacking in the vulnerability department. The guys are taking down their walls left and right, declaring their love and trying to prove themselves. She's been wringing her hands and waiting for that "safe moment" (after Josh declares he is in love with her) before I ever saw one iota of vulnerability from her. It just gives me the sensation that she is going from one safety net to the next. Kind of like the girl who won't break up with her boyfriend (even though she knows it isn't a good relationship) until she has another guy on the hook.

See, there is still a piece of my mind that says Andi is going from the safety net of Hy to the safety net of Josh. Maybe I am totally off the mark, but my gut tells me that Andi still craves the feelings of protection and security, and I think it has a lot to do with being a perfectionist and needing that sense of control over one's environment. She needs the big, strong, assertive guy to give her that sense that everything is going to be alright.

I don't know, when I got married at 25, I didn't have fears that everything wasn't going to be alright. I didn't have fears that I wasn't going to be able to make everything alright for myself. I was happy and in love, and I was confident in myself and in DH that we would work as a team to make a good life together. Not a perfect life with everything tied up nicely in a bow, but a good life that would take work and effort and mistakes. I feel that Andi doubts herself and therefore puts more emphasis on finding a guy who will swoop in to save her if she flounders.

I am the baby of my family with 2 older brothers, so I know what the term Daddy's little girl could mean. A father and his daughter have a different relationship than a father and his son. A mother and her daughter have a different relationship than a mother and her son. It just is that way. However, what I do not believe in and what appears to be a pet peeve of mine (as I see that this is like a bone in my throat this season) is this concept that a father must dote upon her daughter and give her the world. Why? Because she is a girl? Because she is, by virtue of her sex, incapable of earning and achieving these things on her own? Why would a girl need to be "taken care of" differently then a boy? Yes, the interpersonal relationships will be different, the bonding rituals, and role modeling will be different. But, I personally find it sexist for a father to think he needs to "take care of" his daughters in an over the top sort of way. I think it can undermine a girl's sense of autonomy and increase her feelings of reliance upon men to make her feel complete or safe. Now, I know I am rambling on about this, and it may or may not apply (or completely apply) to Andi. It is just something that my mind has been exploring throughout this season. It is just something that I felt like I needed to vent. Peace.

[stuckinsc]

Mia, I liked both of your posts and they actually gave me pause to consider that Andi's behavior might not be completely from just being spoiled and entitled.  So for me you made me appreciate Andi more.

Like you I don't think if she picks Josh it will be only because of Hy.  Josh is fantastic with a lot of wonderful qualities and I wouldn't criticize any woman for choosing Josh.  I do think Josh being a lot like Hy and what she has always known will factor into her decision.  That doesn't make it wrong, just truth.  It is always easier to go with what we know than to take an uncomfortable chance.

I like her better with Nick, I like Sharleen, see a softer Andi around Nick.  But, I love Josh and if he doesn't mind what I see as Andi's grilling and petulance around him then I hope they will be happy too.

There is no bad choice for Andi to make in my opinion, just a choice.  One way or the other one guy will be upset, and hopefully a happy and prosperous couple will come out of this.

[stuckinsc]

I rewatched Andi's htd with JPG the other day and not only do I not see anything sinister about Hy and his relationship with Andi, but I find him to be awesome and hope he gets lots and lots mtp time and if they take him to the atfr to finally give enthusiastic approval, I would love that too.

Andi is his baby. I know JPG has his fans and all and this jmo, but he's a complete moron and of course Hy and the family saw through that immediately. I don't blame Hy for thinking this is freaking ridiculous that his smart, poised, articulate, beautiful, well-educated daughter would bring this guy home and he'd half-heartedly ask permission to marry her. Seriously? It's a joke! Of course Hy rolled his eyes and couldn't believe it was for real since it really wasn't for real.

I LOLed again when Hy said he has a beautiful wife, two amazing kids, a great son in law and a visitor. Or at the end after his talk with Andi he casually suggested that maybe JPG can just go home alone. Another gold Hy moment was when he rolled his eyes and was like if "they think they're in love or whatever..." He's amazing.

As for showing up to m&g, Andi was so happy to see him, she almost cried! She loves her daddy, she values his support and approval, but I don't think this means she chose Josh to make Hy happy, it's just because it's all a better fit with Josh imo.

When JPG came around, Hy tried and failed to engage him on a man to man level, comparing Andi to how he would protect Camila, and JPG had no freaking idea where he was going with this line of thought. I'm sure Josh, otoh, will understand exactly how he would feel protecting Stephanie if some random dude showed up asking to marry her.

I think Hy and Josh are actually similar, probably because they're both from the same "world" just like Andi, in general. So while I'm sure he's thrilled that Josh has the Murray/UGA stuff, he will be most happy because Josh will talk about Andi to him and treat Andi up to Hy's standards. He already loves her more than anything in the world, she's his baby, he's going to protect her from everything, etc. These are the things Hy needs to hear, not "I'm a Murray" or "Go DAWGS," although those things don't hurt either and he'll be happy they're nice add-ons to his new son in law.

One more thing, this makes the cord cutting comment ridiculous. No one is cutting any cords. Andi loves her family as much as Josh loves his. Of course they're going to make their own family, but they're close enough to their families that that comment is totally nuts and was probably out of context somehow.

It is funny how different people see things very differently. 

I didn't care for Hy or Andi's HTD on JPG's season at all.  As others have said with the LCD, MTP, FD, etc, it is all part of the show and the process.  Well guess what HTDs are part of the show and the process, and the male lead is expect to ask for permission from all the father's to marry their daughters.  JPG was criticized extensively for not playing the game and then when he did, he gets Hy's over protective father routine and everyone applauds it. 

To me fine, you feel that way, but then your pretty little princess is basically doing the same thing less than a year later?  In my opinion that screams hypocrite.  Because Andi did go to four different hometowns and ask four sets of families to love her and accept her and want her for their sons, when she knew in my opinion that she was not going to choose either Marcus or Chris, but man she played the game well with those families.  Just like JPG tried to do with her family.

Overall, I find Andi and Hy to be two people who think it should all be about them and to me them being all excited about Andi being the bachelorette is really ridiculous since Hy was so critical of  JPG in the same situation.

At the time they showed Andi's HTD with JPG it annoyed me.  Andi signed up for the show and knew the process in advance.   So blame the princess for wanting to be a part of it, not the guy who at least liked her enough to get to know her and come meet her family.

Sorry, I am not a fan of Andi or Hy.  I don't know her mom or sister, so I will not judge the whole family.  But I would not enjoy spending time with Hy at all.

[cindebugg]

The final 3, 2 in this case, never acknowledge each other. They're probably told not to, to ramp up the intensity. Even those who are known to be friends, Melissa and Jillian at the F3 in Jason's season,  Chris and Roberto in Ali's, acted like the other didn't exist.

 Arie and Jef had a chat while Emily escorted Sean out.

[DKWillis]

Could she be sending another clue to use part 3/4 ( around 25 sec mark) on Josh's nite portion of their date when they are at the table talking about famiy-type of parents she had etc.. When she flips her hair on her left she is wearing a very slim copper like band on her wedding finger. She wore it on Nick's too but it was on her right hand. Makes you wonder   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=694BkrcAT2c

[Guest]

Could she be sending another clue to use part 3/4 ( around 25 sec mark)  on Josh's nite portion of their date when they are at the table talking about famiy-type of parents she had etc..  When she flips her hair on her left she is wearing a very slim copper like band on her wedding finger.  She wore it on Nick's too but it was on her right hand.  Makes you wonder    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=694BkrcAT2c

that's very interesting. do we know when she started wearing that ring? has she had it since the beginning of the show?

[docnash14]

The final 3, 2 in this case, never acknowledge each other. They're probably told not to, to ramp up the intensity. Even those who are known to be friends, Melissa and Jillian at the F3 in Jason's season,  Chris and Roberto in Ali's, acted like the other didn't exist.

 Arie and Jef had a chat while Emily escorted Sean out.

As I recall, Catherine and Lindsay spoke to each other when Sean followed Ashley out to try to talk to her.

[pander3575]

The final 3, 2 in this case, never acknowledge each other. They're probably told not to, to ramp up the intensity. Even those who are known to be friends, Melissa and Jillian at the F3 in Jason's season,  Chris and Roberto in Ali's, acted like the other didn't exist.

 Arie and Jef had a chat while Emily escorted Sean out.

As I recall, Catherine and Lindsay spoke to each other when Sean followed Ashley out to try to talk to her.  

But in both of those cases it was after the rose was given. Did they speak to each other prior?

[chloep]

^^ No. No prior contact. You get escorted to the RC location by the producers/CH and get told to stay quite.

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