Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 9 - Fantasy Dates - July 14/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion - Thread #2

[Guest]

They are the deleted scene for this week

Oh great thanks.  Are they on here or I can just go to abc.com right?  Thanks again.

ABC   

[2observe]

Very true, but that could lead one to speculate that perhaps they didn't show Nick's FS room (which is unusual) because it was not anywhere near as lavish as Josh's was, and they were afraid the difference would be too much of a clue to who Andi was favoring.   

It could be because it was really great or really crappy.  I am not saying one way or the other.  But any assumption that Josh's was the most awesome is purely assumption, since we only peeped through the window of Nicks.

I wouldn't completely say it is assumption "Andi acknowledges" that he got the best FD and most expensive or something to that nature just as they are walking up to dinner going into the night portion of the over nites. IMO, i dont think she would say that to Josh if it did not hold some merit by her standards anyway. For some reason she felt it important to let him know he got the best and by past history of the show the chosen one has always gotten the better fantasy date and suite and usually is the last to get there date which we know Josh was last during the filming. TPTB tried to make us think he was second, silly one's         

The bolded and the fact that we heard Andi tell Josh to listen to the words of the song on their first 1 on 1 date gives me reason to pause. I don't recall ever hearing a Lead give that much information to their F1.

[Alanna]

It could be because it was really great or really crappy.  I am not saying one way or the other.  But any assumption that Josh's was the most awesome is purely assumption, since we only peeped through the window of Nicks.

I wouldn't completely say it is assumption "Andi acknowledges" that he got the best FD and most expensive or something to that nature just as they are walking up to dinner going into the night portion of the over nites. IMO, i dont think she would say that to Josh if it did not hold some merit by her standards anyway. For some reason she felt it important to let him know he got the best and by past history of the show the chosen one has always gotten the better fantasy date and suite and usually is the last to get there date which we know Josh was last during the filming. TPTB tried to make us think he was second, silly one's         

The bolded and the fact that we heard Andi tell Josh to listen to the words of the song on their first 1 on 1 date gives me reason to pause.  I don't recall ever hearing a Lead give that much information to their F1.  

Brad told Emily he loved her on their fd and Ashley literally told JP "I want to give myself to you" in episode 6.

[Cecilia]

I just re-watched the final rose ceremony and I don't see what you guys are talking about.

[MiaHawk]

Has anyone even discussed the very last scene where Andi and Nick discussed bedwetting, and Andi said she wet the bed on occasion until middle school?

First, I'm not a physician, yet I do know that structural/physical things might make this more likely, however...

The first thing that popped into my mind was that it may have been a reaction to stress. Now, again, I'm not a doctor and I'm not trying to diagnose Andi. I also know that she is certainly not the only child to suffer from this.

The only reason I even bring it up is that it fits with my existing impression/guesses of her childhood dynamics. I feel there may have been a high expectation for perfectionism from her that she may have felt from her father or from her involvement in competitive tennis. High-level athletics practically demands perfectionism. While pride in one's athletic success is an ego booster, the perfectionist mindset that it instills (often for a very longtime/lifetime) is a self-esteem killer.

There are many childhood milestones that can boost one's self-esteem, one's sense of autonomy, one's sense of self-reliance and self-confidence. I remember my son's pre-school teacher telling us parents that whatever the kids can do for themselves they should be allowed to do for themselves. Set up the kitchen to allow them to pour a bowl of cereal and milk by themselves. Sleep in their own beds. Make simple choices for themselves. etc All of these things seem small and insignificant, yet they foster a sense of accomplishment and autonomy that is necessary as they grow up. It is for these reasons that I cringe whenever I hear that a parent doted on their child, gave into their indulgences (like Andi said of her mom not being able to stick with the disciplinary action). Boundaries make children feel safe, even if the kids don't like it and they complain, they need limits.

Now, what do cereal and milk have to do with Andi? I just have the feeling that Hy and Mrs D were the type to swoop in and save Andi everytime she struggled with something, and at the same time she may have felt a heavy burden to be perfect, and those things combined may have made her less self-confident, more needy, and less autonomous.

The fact that Hy showed up on the first night really sent red flags up to me. Watch those videos (deleted scenes on ABC) and tell me what sort of vibe you think he gives off. I thought he was rude to the guys (told Marquel to stop sucking up to him) and tried to intimidate them. Would that be the same thing as bullying them? As exerting his power over them? Or will some say that he just has a sarcastic sense of humor. Sarcasm is fine on a level playing field, but when sarcasm comes from somebody up the food chain down to somebody beneath them, it's intimidation, imo.

Hy did a similar thing with JuanPablo. He tried to make JP feel guilty or bad about asking Hy for his blessing if he eventually chose Andi. I wonder how he will react to Josh and Nick possibly both asking for his blessing now that his little Pookie is the one dating multiple men at the same time? Will he be as harsh and dismissive to them? Or have the tables turned because the position of power is on Andi's side this time? On night one Andi said to Hy, "I know, I have to pick the best one." They shared a look and it said, to me, that they have gone over this previously and Hy has given his opinions previously. Hy then replies with, "The best one for you." Which I believe is just a smoke screen PC answer. What he really means is The best one for you as I have described to you time and time again. Now go out there and be a good little soldier and bring me home a winning SIL.

This is just how I feel to date. And I am dying to see the HTDs and see if they align with what I believe I will see. I do expect tricky edited with phoney doubts and phoney accolades. But I just want to watch Hy's demeanor and analyze his words, but I do believe he is pulling some invisible strings inside of Andi's head. JMHO.

[Brill]

Mia, I totally agree with your post and I get the same vibe from Hy. Maybe she really did love Nick but she had to go with Josh to please Daddy.   
I couldn't believe that he was actually at the beginning.
Most of the leads that have someone, have a close friend or a past person/s from the show, not a parent. If she does pick Josh then I felt with out even watching that she would. So sad!!!

[Alanna]

I rewatched Andi's htd with JPG the other day and not only do I not see anything sinister about Hy and his relationship with Andi, but I find him to be awesome and hope he gets lots and lots mtp time and if they take him to the atfr to finally give enthusiastic approval, I would love that too.

Andi is his baby. I know JPG has his fans and all and this jmo, but he's a complete moron and of course Hy and the family saw through that immediately. I don't blame Hy for thinking this is freaking ridiculous that his smart, poised, articulate, beautiful, well-educated daughter would bring this guy home and he'd half-heartedly ask permission to marry her. Seriously? It's a joke! Of course Hy rolled his eyes and couldn't believe it was for real since it really wasn't for real.

I LOLed again when Hy said he has a beautiful wife, two amazing kids, a great son in law and a visitor. Or at the end after his talk with Andi he casually suggested that maybe JPG can just go home alone. Another gold Hy moment was when he rolled his eyes and was like if "they think they're in love or whatever..." He's amazing.

As for showing up to m&g, Andi was so happy to see him, she almost cried! She loves her daddy, she values his support and approval, but I don't think this means she chose Josh to make Hy happy, it's just because it's all a better fit with Josh imo.

When JPG came around, Hy tried and failed to engage him on a man to man level, comparing Andi to how he would protect Camila, and JPG had no freaking idea where he was going with this line of thought. I'm sure Josh, otoh, will understand exactly how he would feel protecting Stephanie if some random dude showed up asking to marry her.

I think Hy and Josh are actually similar, probably because they're both from the same "world" just like Andi, in general. So while I'm sure he's thrilled that Josh has the Murray/UGA stuff, he will be most happy because Josh will talk about Andi to him and treat Andi up to Hy's standards. He already loves her more than anything in the world, she's his baby, he's going to protect her from everything, etc. These are the things Hy needs to hear, not "I'm a Murray" or "Go DAWGS," although those things don't hurt either and he'll be happy they're nice add-ons to his new son in law.

One more thing, this makes the cord cutting comment ridiculous. No one is cutting any cords. Andi loves her family as much as Josh loves his. Of course they're going to make their own family, but they're close enough to their families that that comment is totally nuts and was probably out of context somehow.

[ironcat]

Well, regarding the FS, the only thing I have to say is that if Nick's was actually nicer than Josh's, boy I'd really like to stay there someday; it must have had its own zip code!   

Hy Dorfman may be overprotective of his daughter(s), but I doubt he chooses their husbands for them. Last I checked, they live in Atlanta, not Anatevka.

[BachfanNY]

Well, regarding the FS, the only thing I have to say is that if Nick's was actually nicer than Josh's, boy I'd really like to stay there someday; it must have had its own zip code!    

Hy Dorfman may be overprotective of his daughter(s), but I doubt he chooses their husbands for them.  Last I checked, they live in Atlanta, not Anatevka.

At the risk of sounding absolutely clueless, I looked up Anatevka.  
And then was quickly embarrassed because I should have know better. I love Fiddler on The Roof!

Josh's FD location was insane, made Nick's look like a camping trip.

[sparkler]

Mia, I totally agree with your post and I get the same vibe from Hy.  Maybe she really did love Nick but she had to go with Josh to please Daddy.   
I couldn't believe that he was actually at the beginning.
Most of the leads that have someone, have a close friend or a past person/s from the show, not a parent. If she does pick Josh then I felt with out even watching that she would.  So sad!!!

Mia, I too, loved your post. I had that very thought when Andi was talking about bed wetting into middle school....she then back pedaled and changed it to the 5th grade. That is highly abnormal and yes it indicates unusual stress. I have never been a fan of the meddling parents and it certainly is cause for concern that Hy was there on the first night. Interfering with my children's dating lives would be highly detrimental to all involved. And I agree that Andi probably felt a lot of perfectionistic stress growing up with a parent like that. THanks for the thought provoking post.

[Luvvy]

At the risk of sharing to much. I had issues bed wetting until the 3rd or 4th grade and I don't think that's normal, however, we never really looked into it. Mom just tried to make sure I stopped drinking after a certain hour or sometimes woke me up in the middle of the night since I was such a deep sleeper to get me to the bathroom.

All that to say, I don't see the correlation - relating Andi's bed wetting issues to some kind of stress placed on her by her dad but I do think your point is interesting and could stand alone without the bed-wetting issue being used to support it.

I feel there may have been a high expectation for perfectionism from her that she may have felt from her father or from her involvement in competitive tennis. High-level athletics practically demands perfectionism. While pride in one's athletic success is an ego booster, the perfectionist mindset that it instills (often for a very longtime/lifetime) is a self-esteem killer

I think this is definitely a possibility, but I also do not think it is fair to say this is why she chose Josh (which is being insinuated imo here and in following posts). It's obvious she truly loves him from what I'm watching. Besides, Andi isn't unlike a lot of kids who strive to please or make their parents proud, but at the end of the day, she has to live with her choice, not Hy. I think it will be funny to watch the dates play out. Maybe her family will give us some insight with what they see. After all, they know her the best.

I think Hy and Josh are actually similar, probably because they're both from the same "world" just like Andi, in general. So while I'm sure he's thrilled that Josh has the Murray/UGA stuff, he will be most happy because Josh will talk about Andi to him and treat Andi up to Hy's standards. He already loves her more than anything in the world, she's his baby, he's going to protect her from everything, etc. These are the things Hy needs to hear, not "I'm a Murray" or "Go DAWGS," although those things don't hurt either and he'll be happy they're nice add-ons to his new son in law.

Well said, Alanna.

[Alanna]

At the risk of sharing to much. I had issues bed wetting until the 3rd or 4th grade and I don't think that's normal, however, we never really looked into it. Mom just tried to make sure I stopped drinking after a certain hour or sometimes woke me up in the middle of the night since I was such a deep sleeper to get me to the bathroom.

All that to say, I don't see the correlation - relating Andi's bed wetting issues to some kind of stress placed on her by her dad but I do think your point is interesting and could stand alone without the bed-wetting issue being used to support it.

I feel there may have been a high expectation for perfectionism from her that she may have felt from her father or from her involvement in competitive tennis. High-level athletics practically demands perfectionism. While pride in one's athletic success is an ego booster, the perfectionist mindset that it instills (often for a very longtime/lifetime) is a self-esteem killer

I think this is definitely a possibility, but I also do not think it is fair to say this is why she chose Josh (which is being insinuated imo here and in following posts). It's obvious she truly loves him from what I'm watching. Besides, Andi isn't unlike a lot of kids who strive to please or make their parents proud, but at the end of the day, she has to live with her choice, not Hy. I think it will be funny to watch the dates play out. Maybe her family will give us some insight with what they see. After all, they know her the best.

ITA and we don't even know if she was joking. Andi and Hy seem to have a wonderful, adorable, totally sweet relationship. I don't see any problems here and don't want to speculate.

IMO she chose Josh because she loves him and I have no doubt Hy will be on board too like he seems to be with Rachel's husband.

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