Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 8 - HTDs - Jul 07/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion Thread #2

[sbolduc]

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE your posts Emusha. I agreed so much with this statement:

"What I've been wondering is what she needs and prioritizes more -- does she want the attention and love that Josh can shower without questions or does she want an intimate partner-in-crime relationship that challenges and exposes her."

I agree she can be happy with both.

I know what my choice would be for her but my choice is based on my own preference, what I am so lucky to have in my marriage. But that doesn't mean it would be the choice for everyone, it is all personal preference.

It comes down to the relationship she wants and desires.

[Guest]

wow. great posts emusha. as for andi being able to go deep emotionally i do wonder if she does or is able to much at all. my guess would be no, but she does handle it well when the guys are emotionally vulnerable (e.g. dylan & marcus talking about painful family experiences). with nick i don't have a clear sense of what their relationship would look like irl but with josh it is pretty well delineated. does nick spend much time with his family of origin? or, is he more independent? he navigates conflict with andi quite well, and i think their relationship would be more intellectual and emotional. my guess is he's an introvert whereas andi and josh are both quite extroverted. how would that play out with nick and andi and a social life and family times? of course they'd have to figure out where to live as well. with josh it is almost too easy with their many similarities, but i think they will have to work a little more when it comes to resolving conflict. then, their chemistry is off the charts as andi says. it really does come down to what andi is looking for and how much a role she wants family to play in their lives. if she likes the idea of the murrays & dorfmans and all the sports love they all share then that is the way to go. if she wants something more intellectual & emotionally vulnerable and maybe not as much family time(?) then nick would be the choice. i can see why she is conflicted between her head (i see this as nick) and her heart (i see this as josh). of course we are only seeing what tptb want us to see. josh is a financial planner/consultant so he must be smart and analytical to be able to do that job. nick of course is not as antisocial as his horrible edit portrays him to be.

[SueSt]

wow. great posts emusha. as for andi being able to go deep emotionally i do wonder if she does or is able to much at all. my guess would be no, but she does handle it well when the guys are emotionally vulnerable (e.g. dylan & marcus talking about painful family experiences). with nick i don't have a clear sense of what their relationship would look like irl but with josh it is pretty well delineated. does nick spend much time with his family of origin? or, is he more independent? he navigates conflict with andi quite well, and i think their relationship would be more intellectual and emotional. my guess is he's an introvert whereas andi and josh are both quite extroverted. how would that play out with nick and andi and a social life and family times? of course they'd have to figure out where to live as well. with josh it is almost too easy with their many similarities, but i think they will have to work a little more when it comes to resolving conflict. then, their chemistry is off the charts as andi says. it really does come down to what andi is looking for and how much a role she wants family to play in their lives. if she likes the idea of the murrays & dorfmans and all the sports love they all share then that is the way to go. if she wants something more intellectual & emotionally vulnerable and maybe not as much family time(?) then nick would be the choice. i can see why she is conflicted between her head (i see this as nick) and her heart (i see this as josh). of course we are only seeing what tptb want us to see. josh is a financial planner/consultant so he must be smart and analytical to be able to do that job. nick of course is not as antisocial as his horrible edit portrays him to be.

great post Gabriele!

[emusha]

wow. great posts emusha. as for andi being able to go deep emotionally i do wonder if she does or is able to much at all. my guess would be no, but she does handle it well when the guys are emotionally vulnerable (e.g. dylan & marcus talking about painful family experiences). with nick i don't have a clear sense of what their relationship would look like irl but with josh it is pretty well delineated. does nick spend much time with his family of origin? or, is he more independent? he navigates conflict with andi quite well, and i think their relationship would be more intellectual and emotional. my guess is he's an introvert whereas andi and josh are both quite extroverted. how would that play out with nick and andi and a social life and family times? of course they'd have to figure out where to live as well. with josh it is almost too easy with their many similarities, but i think they will have to work a little more when it comes to resolving conflict. then, their chemistry is off the charts as andi says. it really does come down to what andi is looking for and how much a role she wants family to play in their lives. if she likes the idea of the murrays & dorfmans and all the sports love they all share then that is the way to go. if she wants something more intellectual & emotionally vulnerable and maybe not as much family time(?) then nick would be the choice. i can see why she is conflicted between her head (i see this as nick) and her heart (i see this as josh). of course we are only seeing what tptb want us to see. josh is a financial planner/consultant so he must be smart and analytical to be able to do that job. nick of course is not as antisocial as his horrible edit portrays him to be.

Great post gabriele and awesome questions! We'll learn more about Andi soon enough. I do wonder about a lifestyle and relationship with Nick would be like and I think we missed out on get a glimpse of that at HTD when his friends were there cos that shows u how his life outside of family is...

I do think both Josh and Nick love family but then have buddies they hang out with outside of the family. Nick has a lot of pics of his friends on instagram etc. and seems to have a pretty active social life (despite the edit) and his family itself is like a small population which he seems to enjoy having fun with...tho he does now live in Chicago so he would have to build his own community of friends there and it would have been great to see that...I think the same is true for Josh whose parents are in Tampa but his siblings and friends are in Atlanta...Nick seems a bit more snarky and intellectual than Josh but I don't actually see him as super intellectual/mental and I don't see Andi as that either. I just see them on the same level of emotional/mental with Nick being more analytical. Nick is also athletic, active and watches the world cup so at least moderately into sports. His closest friends from the show seemed to be JJ, Nick the golfer, Eric Hill (?) and you can gauge someone's style/personality from the ppl he befriends...he didn't seem to hang with the "manly/jock types" which were more Josh's crew. Honestly, in terms of lifestyle Josh's family seems like a very close one to Andi's the question is - is she excited to keep up that tradition and dive into sport and family values etc. or is she interested in some unconventionality and uncharted waters ...we also don't know what her life outside of her family is and what she values in that lifestyle... Sharleen's comments in the beginning referred to Nick not being Andi's "type" and I wonder what she means...I think Sharleen sees many qualities in Nick that align with what she* might want for herself but from knowing Andi she was a bit surprised she gave him a chance.

[emusha]

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE your posts Emusha. I agreed so much with this statement:

"What I've been wondering is what she needs and prioritizes more -- does she want the attention and love that Josh can shower without questions or does she want an intimate partner-in-crime relationship that challenges and exposes her."

I agree she can be happy with both.

I know what my choice would be for her but my choice is based on my own preference, what I am so lucky to have in my marriage. But that doesn't mean it would be the choice for everyone, it is all personal preference.

It comes down to the relationship she wants and desires.

very curious what you chose if you wouldn't mind sharing????

one thing i wanted to add to previous thoughts was a specific incident that shows Josh's ability to deal with emotional things and communication -- the best example of the challenges that might arise between them on this front popped up during the lie detector test...and I'm not sure if they directly even addressed it???

[sbolduc]

^^ great posts Gabriele and Emusha absolutely loving this discussion!

[Alanna]

wow. great posts emusha. as for andi being able to go deep emotionally i do wonder if she does or is able to much at all. my guess would be no, but she does handle it well when the guys are emotionally vulnerable (e.g. dylan & marcus talking about painful family experiences). with nick i don't have a clear sense of what their relationship would look like irl but with josh it is pretty well delineated. does nick spend much time with his family of origin? or, is he more independent? he navigates conflict with andi quite well, and i think their relationship would be more intellectual and emotional. my guess is he's an introvert whereas andi and josh are both quite extroverted. how would that play out with nick and andi and a social life and family times? of course they'd have to figure out where to live as well. with josh it is almost too easy with their many similarities, but i think they will have to work a little more when it comes to resolving conflict. then, their chemistry is off the charts as andi says. it really does come down to what andi is looking for and how much a role she wants family to play in their lives. if she likes the idea of the murrays & dorfmans and all the sports love they all share then that is the way to go. if she wants something more intellectual & emotionally vulnerable and maybe not as much family time(?) then nick would be the choice. i can see why she is conflicted between her head (i see this as nick) and her heart (i see this as josh). of course we are only seeing what tptb want us to see. josh is a financial planner/consultant so he must be smart and analytical to be able to do that job. nick of course is not as antisocial as his horrible edit portrays him to be.

Great post overall, bolded made me laugh, it's true! I jokingly referred to Josh as Lennie Small thanks to Nick's video but I do kinda agree the show does try to portray him that way which is clouding what the audience is seeing.

I've already given all my thoughts on emusha's great thoughts but regarding the mental connection with Josh and Andi, I think there is more than we're seeing.

First of all, of all of the men he's the only one who has seen her cry/breakdown during their "fight" and somehow managed to get them back on track during the cocktail party. We don't know how/what he said/did to her but it worked to bring her down from total meltdown mode throwing mics to falling in love with him the next week. It can be argued that Nick would never let the argument escalate like that but I would also argue she's not in love with him so the reaction is different.

Second, Andi gave the entire expository dialogue about the baseball dream and Aaron and how it's all connected on their htd. Either she understood everything because she understands him so well or he told her at some point and it wasn't shown. Josh told Andi he is vulnerable around his family and people he loves, so he does have some capacity to communicate and share feelings, although I agree it's not as strong as what we have seen of Nick.

Ultimately, I think Josh will keep her in the world she knows, loves and has grown up in. Otoh, a relationship with Nick would be new, interesting, and a different adventure. I see her extremely happy in her world and searching for someone to be with her in it, which is why she keeps telling Josh it's too good to be true, he's the missing piece for her in the world she loves which is filled with her family, atl, lifestyle, etc.

ETA: One more thing, in the interviews post show, Andi talks about how chemistry is so important to her and everything, but how she needs to have an emotional and mental connection too. Whatever we are seeing, Andi must feel the mental connection with him. But then again, she really has no choice but to say that now, does she?

[nannymargie]

Alanna, I love your post. Josh is a perfect fit for her world and he would complete what she has missing. Which is a man you would adore her and treat her like she has never been treated before.

[emusha]

hahaha! too true she now has no choice but to address those nagging questions about "type" the mental/emotional/physical connection ...And I'm sure all of those same questions will pop out again as well.
Whatever the case I imagine she made the best decision she felt for her at that point whether it's a lasting thing or not...it's still a beautiful love story that's a part of her path. IMHO each love story in our lives brings at the least much opportunity for personal growth and at the best much connection, mutual respect and caring/support.

at the end of it with zero judgement- i do believe Andi's still learning about herself whatever comes out of her journey...even if it's one F2 or the other or if neither of them are her "Great Love".

Couples also learn how to communicate with & live with each other. I think the biggest question for Andi is what person/relationship sustains her in such a way that she wants him in her life and it's totally her time to go with whatever feels good and enjoy it to the fullest. for me it's going to be an awesome lesson on human relationships served with a dash of reality tv edits & storyboards regardless of the situation .

[docnash14]

LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE your posts Emusha. I agreed so much with this statement:

"What I've been wondering is what she needs and prioritizes more -- does she want the attention and love that Josh can shower without questions or does she want an intimate partner-in-crime relationship that challenges and exposes her."

I agree she can be happy with both.

I know what my choice would be for her but my choice is based on my own preference, what I am so lucky to have in my marriage. But that doesn't mean it would be the choice for everyone, it is all personal preference.

It comes down to the relationship she wants and desires.

very curious what you chose if you wouldn't mind sharing????

one thing i wanted to add to previous thoughts was a specific incident that shows Josh's ability to deal with emotional things and communication -- the best example of the challenges that might arise between them on this front popped up during the lie detector test...and I'm not sure if they directly even addressed it???

I think they did discuss it and by the end of their second 1-1 had resolved it. At the beginning of that date, Josh acknowledged his awareness that Andi had not been happy with him the previous week. And, as I indicated in another thread last week, it appeared to me that Andi had received a crash course in attentive listening between the initial disagreement about the lie detector test (in my opinion, she was much more responsible for the escalation of that discussion than Josh was and, in fact, I think Josh handled Andi's reaction in an even-tempered manner). So during the dinner portion of their second date, Andi brought up the lie detector test again, Josh admitted that he had been angry and Andi very effectively (IMO) acknowledge that with her comment "you were frustrated" to which Josh added "yes, I just wanted you to trust me." And then smiles all around.

[Guest]

^^ great posts Gabriele and Emusha absolutely loving this discussion!

thanks. it's totally fun to analyze their relationships & personalities. one other thing is that andi probably gets plenty of intellectual stimulation being in law so she might not need tons of that in her personal life. she may be better off just relaxing with family and having fun with sports to blow off steam from her demanding and intense job. with nick i feel there are lots of question marks. he's in love but it's bubble love as it is for all of them at this point. how well would it translate to the real world? would it just be one more failed bach relationship? i know one of the things that predicts successful longterm marriages is having a lot in common especially on the big issues in life. so, nick might be fun for a bit but would he really be her life long match? andi and josh have tons in common: both are from the South and currently live in atlanta, both had aspirations to go professional as athletes in their respective sports, both families are very sports-oriented with hy being a huge fan of aaron's, both have one jewish and one catholic parent, both seem quite extroverted and pretty high energy, etc. all this combined with the intense chemistry they have could make another real life marriage imo.

[Alanna]

^^ great posts Gabriele and Emusha absolutely loving this discussion!

thanks. it's totally fun to analyze their relationships & personalities. one other thing is that andi probably gets plenty of intellectual stimulation being in law so she might not need tons of that in her personal life. she may be better off just relaxing with family and having fun with sports to blow off steam from her demanding and intense job. with nick i feel there are lots of question marks. he's in love but it's bubble love as it is for all of them at this point. how well would it translate to the real world? would it just be one more failed bach relationship? i know one of the things that predicts successful longterm marriages is having a lot in common especially on the big issues in life. so, nick might be fun for a bit but would he really be her life long match? andi and josh have tons in common: both are from the South and currently live in atlanta, both had aspirations to go professional as athletes in their respective sports, both families are very sports-oriented with hy being a huge fan of aaron's, both have one jewish and one catholic parent, both seem quite extroverted and pretty high energy, etc. all this combined with the intense chemistry they have could make another real life marriage imo.  

I think so too barring any disaster like Andi deciding to move to Hollywood. Andi, just say no!

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