Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 8 - HTDs - Jul 07/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion Thread #2

[Longhornfan]

Since we are all just stating what we are seeing here, which I am loving by the way, I want to add my two cents.  I so agree that Andi has spent a lot of time in her own head.  I first saw it with poor Eric.  After Eric used the words actress and poker face, Andi immediately went into her head and basically did not hear another word that Eric said after that.  She totally missed what he was trying to say, because she got angry.

I get the feeling that perhaps Andi is used to "fighting", rather than having calm back and forth conversations when conflicts arise.  And I found it interesting how different both Josh and Nick reacted to her interrogations of them.

Here is Andi's reaction to Josh being upset with the lie detector test.  She thought that they had had their first "fight", and she left there still not knowing just how Josh really felt about her and wondering why he got so upset over the lie detector test, while the other guys didn't seem that upset about it.  And Josh left there not understanding why she still was questioning his feelings for her and not fully trusting him.  This is ONLY based on the EDIT that we were shown.  Josh fans, if all of that was resolved differently and was not shown to us, this is still what I observed while watching that scene.  JMO.

With Nick, Andi was concerned with why he was not getting along with the guys, and she brought up that the guys had said that Nick was flaunting that he was her frontrunner.  When Andi began interrogating Nick on his use of that word, she asked him if he thought that we was the frontrunner. Nick stopped, thought about what he was going to say and was able to calmly answer and communicate to her - without a fight breaking out.  Andi's response was something like "good enough".

I do see two different communication styles between Nick and Josh.  And I suspect that Andi is used to having fights break out, rather than calm discussions.  I do think that this is what Andi is most comfortable with.  There is not doubt in my mind that Andi needs to feel like she is in control of the situation, because letting go of that control is extremely scary for her.

Josh is the familiar.  Nick is the unknown.

Except after that one fight, Josh learned to never engage her like that again. Any other attempts to start any sort of power struggle with him are met with him laughing at her/teasing and just talking about it normally like they did during their Ghent date when they agreed he was frustrated and she was confused. That seemed normal and healthy from what we saw imo. They didn't handle the lie detector thing well but they both acknowledged it and ironed out whatever was going on.

I honestly don't even remember that scene with her and Josh, so I can't really comment on it.  But, if that is the way that they handled the situation, then that would seem to be a healthy way to do so.

Communication is a must in any relationship, and I admit that I base a lot of what I see on my own personal experiences.  My ex-husband was not a good communicator, and he would do anything to avoid it, even walk away in the midst of the discussion.  His best tactic, though, was to always make light of the situation, to make a joke, so that everything that I was feeling would get swept under the rug.  I am not saying that this was what happened with Josh and Andi.  And, if they are together and happy, then maybe they are good at communicating with each other.

I have no doubt that there is a lot being edited out for both Josh and Nick.  Isn't Josh only 2 years younger than Nick?  If that is so, I see Nick's maturity level/personal growth further along than Josh's at this time  Josh has said that he has never had his heart broken, even when his ex-gf cheated on him, and he has not even HAD a serious relationship in at least the last 5 years.  Nick, on the other hand, has been in love, gotten engaged and had his heart broken.  And from that, it seems that he has learned a lot about himself in the process.

I am an admitted fan of Nick's, and I want him to end up with the right person for HIM.  And, I am not seeing Andi being the right person FOR Nick. So, for me, I will be perfectly fine if she picks Josh at the end.  And, Nick will eventually find "his missing piece, his other half" . He will be free to find his soul mate.

[Piper61]

Josh is 29, and Nick is 33, is that correct?

[ironcat]

According to their bios, Nick, Josh and Marcus are all 6'2", Chris is 6'1", so no real difference, unless Andi was wearing killer heels during some of the hugging.

[emusha]

I have been loathe to make this comparison, because I never could stand Ed, but I keep thinking back to Jillian's season, where she discovered this surprising connection with Reid, who was so not her type, and they really didn't have that much in common in the real world, vs Ed, who was (to her, certainly not to me) completely her type, physically, personality-wise, and family background-wise.  Of course, we know it didn't work out, but not because they weren't compatible, but because Ed was not, at that time, ready to settle down in a committed relationship, let alone get married.  Clearly, Ed is no Josh, but just like Jillian couldn't NOT choose Ed, I think Andi couldn't NOT choose her ideal man, Josh.  Hopefully, the couple will have a better outcome.

It's funny to think about this because I was a die hard Reid fan and was really rooting for Jill to pick him (no spoilers back then to jump on as to the final outcome), suspected Ed was shady and would break her heart (true) but in retrospect, the ending was not a surprise.  Since I don't see Josh as a shady character like Ed, I have no problem with Andi picking him, and don't feel that the relationship is undoubtedly doomed   the way I felt about Jill/Ed.  And I like Nick (not as much as Reid, but I suspect in the real world, he is a very cool and good guy with a lot to offer), but I just think that, despite their seeming connection/chemistry, their lives don't really line up in the real world as well as the editing is leading us to believe, just like with Jill and Reid.

I see Reid and Jill as exactly like Nick and Andi. Exactly! Even the scene where Ed is creepily like "I'm going to attack that woman today" or whatever versus Reid who was all Honey Bear and Jilly Bean with her, echoes back a little to this season that Nick is the better communicator, better temper, whatever, than Josh. This season is ALL kinds of Jill and Ali (thank to Josh/Roberto being really similar imo) to me.

This is a fun parallel...I'm seeing parallels with a lot of our bettes including JP-Ash & Aliberto...
I'd be curious to learn who Jill ended up with and what he's like - I'd not be surprised AT ALL if he brings to her a combination of Reid's emotional/mental connection and Ed's big guy physical attraction....and hence my previous point with both Ali & Jill - neither F2 were their "One" cos they needed all of these attributes or they needed to grow more and learn about themselves (esp in Ali's case).
Have to say - IMO Nick is way more mature, aware and focused, decisive, fearless and emotionally available than Reid who was definitely more neurotic, very very indecisive and not fearless....And Josh is a lot more thoughtful, caring, dedicated/emotionally available, and less "intellectual" than Ed... there's a chance Andi is less secure/self aware than Jill. And to be honest I don't know if at this time in her life Andi can give Nick what he needs. I do think Josh is at a time in his life where he needs to branch into his own and he hasn't even dated for 5 years...he's wanting to escape and build his own.

[emusha]

I can see everything that Andi has with Nick, and his family is great, and their conversations have been more in depth, etc., yet, I don't think we have been able to witness the same coverage in that regard when it comes to Josh. And that is by design/for a reason, and that reason is the jock/athlete type of the past curveball edit.  Many seem to be falling for it like a sinking or fastball pitch.  I don't think that Josh is less intelligent than Nick, and Nick was also an athlete.  Andi does know these guys better, and in the end, she hopefully has chosen the one that she sees a most compatible relationship with IRL.  I personally don't think MM rules anything more than any other hands-on, stay at home, doting mother.  JMO.  She is more outgoing and vocal, and seems to be more involved in SM, and with the whole Bulldog nation.  I can understand why when football season begins it's a full out every weekend family event and the main focus.  This is true with those who love the sport, but even more so when your son is a star player.  I think that is very hard for non-football fans to fathom, and even those who are casual fans of football in general.  I believe Andi's family would gravitate really well to the Murray family and I think Andi will as well because she already seems to be more than casually interested in football and sports.  That's the way I see it anyway.

And also let not forget that Andi was homeschooled so she could devoted her time in playing tennis to be a champion.   She would know what it takes to become a champion and also understand Josh's broken dream like her own.  Beside having an intense physical chemistry ( her own words).  They have a connection like no
others.

I agree, a connection like no others.  And it's a connection you can build a life on in my opinion.  Also, when it comes to compromise regarding both families, how can it already not be easier when the families themselves have so much in common.  I look to the sports connection, most likely a connection with religion and southern location of both families, to name a few.

Hmm this is interesting tho I don't understand the athlete world I believe Nick is also very athletic and remains so (during the monastry date they put Brian and Nick at the front to pull the cart with andi sitting - and it going uphill for a reason) ...I think he set some college records? maybe nick fans can help me out here but i'm vaguely remembering him qualifying for something or other....

On the other hand Andi being homeschooled is clarifying a lot* of things about her for me! However I remember a comment about someone who went to high school with her who had disliked her?.... Thanks for that tidbit

[Piper61]

And also let not forget that Andi was homeschooled so she could devoted her time in playing tennis to be a champion.   She would know what it takes to become a champion and also understand Josh's broken dream like her own.  Beside having an intense physical chemistry ( her own words).  They have a connection like no
others.

I agree, a connection like no others.  And it's a connection you can build a life on in my opinion.  Also, when it comes to compromise regarding both families, how can it already not be easier when the families themselves have so much in common.  I look to the sports connection, most likely a connection with religion and southern location of both families, to name a few.

Hmm this is interesting tho I don't understand the athlete world I believe Nick is also very athletic and remains so (during the monastry date they put Brian and Nick at the front to pull the cart with andi sitting - and it going uphill for a reason) ...I think he set some college records? maybe nick fans can help me out here but i'm vaguely remembering him qualifying for something or other....

On the other hand Andi being homeschooled is clarifying a lot* of things about her for me! However I remember a comment about someone who went to high school with her who had disliked her?.... Thanks for that tidbit

Oh, I know Nick was a former track athlete at one time, but don't know much else about whether he plays any sports, or really gets wrapped up in spectator sports.  He might, I just don't know.  But Andi seems to continue to play sports, tennis and golf, along with her mother and Josh does as well.  She fully understands baseball as she was a former player herself.  I think she is also a fan of both NCAA and NFL football.  We know at least that HY is very much a GA Bulldog fan. I am just saying that it would be easy to envision Andi fitting in singularly with Josh's family as they follow football, and the families appear as if they would also mesh together doing the same.

I don't know how long Andi was home schooled, but are you saying one person went to HS with her and disliked her?

[emusha]

Yes. I don't recall where I saw this but it was a commenter on a blog post who disliked her and called her out on how she treated people during high school -- might have been a troll sorry haven't been paying too close attention!

That's cool to know Andi's background...I honestly don't think I know her as well as I thought so...

[Longhornfan]

cool pics sophienette and great thoughts all!

re: the screen caps -- I think their height plays into how she's hugging them too... I think Nick might be the tallest guy of the bunch? Regardless we haven't been shown her initiating intimacy and contact as much with anyone else as she does with Josh and Nick...hard to compare the two particularly cos edit plays into it...

fascinating perspective longhorn fan! It's so interesting for me to see how nick is falling in love with the connection and dynamic between them i.e. how they fit together and build up/challenge each other. It's cool to see that on a show like this and to compare the diff things ppl have valued/wanted over the years on this show. Nick knows what he wants and is very aware and articulate about sharing it. I also agree with you that the dynamic is the way it is between nick and andi vs. josh and andi cos of nick rather than andi. I think that open space allows for them to avoid passive aggressiveness ("mind games" per Andi's words).

But then again as a 27 year old I think Andi likely wants to "fall in madly, cant-control-myself nor keep my hands off of you" kind of love courtesy of hollywood and biochemical reactions in the body.... I think the potential for what she has with Nick is passionate but more of a deep slow burn rather than constantly detonating fireworks. And she might make her perspective about love known if she holds herself back from nick at this point which I think she might be starting to. Physical is very big for Andi cos it gets her out of her head...notice what the dynamic was with Chris and Brian...when they kissed her with mastery she was like puddle in their hands...
I am afraid to say but the danger of the fireworks is it's the "love is blind" kinda love. The people might totally get lucky and be compatible in making each other happy with the little things in the long term but from having observed ali and roberto over the years even when roberto was the sweet -- shower ali with all the love attention, romance she wants...their dynamic and lifestyle just wasn't sustaining them together. I do hope that Andi & Josh are much more compatible than Aliberto in the little ways and even if they're not as much for them to learn and treat each other well and grow together if they end up together.

Thanks, Emusha.  I am loving these conversations that we are having now.  I agree that Andi wants to experience that uncontrollable, head-over-heels kind of love (just like you described above) that we often see in the movies.  But, I fear that she has some unrealistic expectations when it comes to love -the perfect man, the perfect life. To me, it does seem like Andi is looking for that fairytale ending, even though she says that fairy tales don't exist.

[Alanna]

Thanks, Emusha.  I am loving these conversations that we are having now.  I agree that Andi wants to experience that uncontrollable, head-over-heels kind of love (just like you described above) that we often see in the movies.  But, I fear that she has some unrealistic expectations when it comes to love -the perfect man, the perfect life.  To me, it does seem like Andi is looking for that fairytale ending, even though she says that fairy tales don't exist.

She's onboard the fairytale train now I think:

Between the conversation, the enchanting performance by American Young, and that kiss against the castle wall ... it was all very fairy-tale-esque!

[Piper61]

I would like to ask what about Josh makes him seem like an unrealistic choice for Andi if she wants her fairy tale ending and happily ever after? Just because Josh hasn't been in a committed relationship in the last 5 years or so, or engaged and then a broken engagement, that doesn't mean that he doesn't know what a committed relationship is and looks like or what a happy and good marriage looks like. He only has to look at his parents for that. He has a great family relationship, seems to be extremely loyal and supportive of those he loves and has a protective nature as well. He and Andi seem to have so much in common with which to further build their relationship upon, and like all relationships/marriages, it will have ups and downs, hurdles to overcome, compromise, etc. Based upon what they both grew up with, they have parents whose marriages have so far stood the test of time. No doubt that at times all hasn't been rosy there either.

[Longhornfan]

Yes. I don't recall where I saw this but it was a commenter on a blog post who disliked her and called her out on how she treated people during high school -- might have been a troll sorry haven't been paying too close attention!

That's cool to know Andi's background...I honestly don't think I know her as well as I thought so...

I thought that Andi did end up going back to high school and graduating from there.  I seem to remember her being home schooled (for a short period of time) so she could concentrate on tennis, but she returned to high school when she and/or her parents realized that she was not good enough to get a college scholarship to play tennis.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Piper61]

I think you are correct, Longhornfan.

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