Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 8 - HTDs - Jul 07/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion Thread #2

[SueSt]

I noticed that too, and to me it was very telling.  I also noticed that we saw Andi getting to know the Murrarys, but I didn't see how the Murrays were getting to know Andi.  Did any of them ask Andi one question about herself???  

Mama Murray said they were there for 11 hours filming and she knew there would be lots on the editing room floor.  

But it's what we see and hear that is part of their storyline; and, that what matters.  

Again, 2observe, great point. I think ADA Andi would be proud!   

[Piper61]

I think Josh will be a fierce family man, father and husband as he has been the big brother to Aaron.  He has all this love and passion to devote to Andi and she will be center stage, so much so, she may appreciate it when he has other family interests.  To MommaMurry's credit, she did say it was time for Josh to devote time and attention to himself.  I think Andi will blend in easily to this family once Josh gets his priorities straight.

It was Josh and Andi's night but he turned the discussion to Aaron and gave him center stage.  I wouldn't like that if I were Andi, but maybe it was the elephant on the table and they had to get through the discussion.  Also, we didn't see the end of the date and there could have been much more edited out where Andi was very happy with the entire HTD.  At this point, they want us to believe she has big doubts about Josh.   

    And to Alanna's post, I agree as well. CH also described Josh as very sweet and devoted to family. There was so much more that ended up on the cutting room floor, both in terms of the day portion of the date, and most certainly the evening portion and when Andi had to leave. Also, I believe it was Alanna that posted elsewhere, but I noticed it, too, during the episode...at one point during Lauren's conversation with Andi, she reached over and gestured to Andi that she had never seen Josh wrapping himself up with anyone else like he does with Andi. We certainly didn't see any of that in the family portion of the date, but it is something we have continuously seen throughout the season whenever they're together. I believe the departure was very telling.

[Piper61]

I didn't see the focus on Aaron and Andi's reaction to it as a red flag or the sign of a bigger problem in the future at all.  Josh had been gone for over a month while this HUGE thing had been going on in his very sports-focused family, and of course he was anxious to catch up on what was happening regarding Aaron's future.  Andi understood that but felt bad that it would take the focus away from Josh's experience, also a unique, possible "once in a lifetime" one, and felt protective of her man.  That's all.  As far as her convo with Mama Murray about cutting the cord, due to editing, we have no idea whether that was the first thing they discussed or it came up after several hours.

Yes, the Murray family is obsessed with sports, and that certainly could be a problem for some women.  But from what I understand about Andi's past, her family, and the way she knocked the crap out of those baseballs, I suspect she is pretty sports obsessed herself, and might not be happy with a guy who wasn't equally so.

Glad people are finally getting on board with Chris as the next Bachelor.  I never doubted that the producers would find the time to "sell" him as such before he left.  He is the wonderful, classy rich farmer/businessman who can't find a wife in his limited environs, a perfect (and never before done) story line for the show. He definitely has A LOT to offer a woman who will fit in with his lifestyle, of which there are probably many, but Andi isn't one of them, IMO.

    

  Right there with ya!

[ironcat]

I think we can all agree that considering they only show us 10 minutes of what was 11 hours or so of conversations, nobody has any idea of what wasn't discussed, who didn't talk to whom, and what the focus of the actual day really was. How they choose to edit the day IMO just reflects the particular edit they are going for with each guy. Josh's is still (even if we are sick of it and want to hear about something else) about his being a jock and his (and now his family's) focus on sports, and can Andi fit in with that. So that's why I think other "deeper" conversations about the future weren't included. Of course, it's also possible that those conversations did happen but were cut out specifically because they would have been just too revealing about Andi's intentions, and given the ending away.   

[Hotmomma]

Last post from Thread #1

by Luvvy Today at 8:42 am
Nick is still on frontrunner status. Another Josh preview shows doubts and a HTD where we didn't even get to see them kiss goodbye or him give her those roses. Chris is gaining for bachelor votes. All is well with tptb.

I don't understand the big deal about the lack of seeing a goodbye - they never showed Ali and Roberto saying goodbye either.  The last thing we saw of them was them salsa dancing with his family.  I actually find that interesting, esp since I feel this season follows Ali's very closely.  Yes, Andi loved all the families but I really think it was game over as soon as Josh told her he was falling in love with her.  Like Ali, she just has to get over the 'is it too good to be true' overthinking of her head so she can follow her heart.  That was Ali's storyline for her season - is Roberto too good to be true and then it turned into would he reciprocate her feelings (after she let Chris go) and will he propose.  With Andi, it is the exact same thing with Josh.
And as far as Josh's FD, there was no way any of the other F3 guys was going to get that date - it reminds me of Brad giving Emily the elephant date, knowing how much she loves elephants.  This date was always going to Josh and I bet Andi will be excited to tell him about it bc I could totally see him in a coaching position somewhere...
The fact that Josh is still wearing the yellow ribbon on his wrist is more telling to me than Nick's video.  It reminds me (again) of Ali when she was caught wearing dog tags during an interview (since Roberto wore dog tags during the season for those who don't remember).  If Josh was being set up for The Bachelor gig, he wouldn't be wearing something that represented his time with Andi...

CWS it reminds back to Byron's season when he did the JK interview I noticed he had a red string tied on..than during there FD he had it on with Mary zip lining..So right now to Me that is the biggest clue.

[sbolduc]

But it's what we see and hear that is part of their storyline; and, that what matters.  

IA. We heard on the HTD how Andi felt about Nick but not about Josh. We have heard Andi talk "hypotheical" about kids with Nick but not with Josh. We have heard Andi refer to Nick as hypothetically as her husband "if I was your wife would you tell me" (in reference to the drama in the house). I don't disagree there is a LOT of footage on the floor and that more likely than not she is having these conversations with Josh, but we aren't seeing them.

Another thing for me is how Andi has repeatedly mentioned in ITMs, blog and now to his sister, how Nick just gets her. He understands her, sees exactly who she is and she can feel what he is thinking. She has commented they have an intense mental, emotional and physical connection. She hasn't said this once she has said this MANY times. IMO we have not heard the same about Josh.

I see it with Josh I do, I see the moments when she tries to wipe his tears away or when he said he was falling in love she lit up. Maybe they have the same balanced connection and chemistry that her and Nick have, and she has alluded to how he (Josh) gets her, but we aren't privy to that.

They just keep re-iterating that Nick gets her and sees her for who she is.

[ironcat]

But it's what we see and hear that is part of their storyline; and, that what matters.  

IA. We heard on the HTD how Andi felt about Nick but not about Josh. We have heard Andi talk "hypotheical" about kids with Nick but not with Josh. We have heard Andi refer to Nick as hypothetically as her husband "if I was your wife would you tell me" (in reference to the drama in the house). I don't disagree there is a LOT of footage on the floor and that more likely than not she is having these conversations with Josh, but we aren't seeing them.

Another thing for me is how Andi has repeatedly mentioned in ITMs, blog and now to his sister, how Nick just gets her. He understands her, sees exactly who she is and she can feel what he is thinking. She has commented they have an intense mental, emotional and physical connection. She hasn't said this once she has said this MANY times. IMO we have not heard the same about Josh.

I see it with Josh I do, I see the moments when she tries to wipe his tears away or when he said he was falling in love she lit up. Maybe they have the same balanced connection and chemistry that her and Nick have, and she has alluded to how he (Josh) gets her, but we aren't privy to that.

They just keep re-iterating that Nick gets her and sees her for who she is.

Maybe they are just doing that to try to convince the viewers that she picks Nick when she actually picks Josh though. There is not "one true edit" that applies every season. They mix it up depending on how things played out.

[emusha]

Sorry for a bit of a ramble but a few things became clear to me after HTD.... read on if you'd like

hmm...it did look to me like Andi was concerned about Josh's priorities and how much the family would take center stage. I think that's fairly normal but it's also something that will change over time - it's obvious that a SO changes someone's life and the priority given to other family members and friends will definitely shift. Given how intimately close the siblings have been to a point that Josh was like a second father figure with a lot of responsibility - it is natural that this question would come up. For Josh particularly this is a big question because the family does do things together and there is a bit of pressure on her to shape her life into the unit that currently exissts...I do think josh and the fam are a bit set in their ways...

To me actually the sad part was watching the heartbreak Josh had to go through with his Baseball career because that seems to have truly deflated him but he seemed to find joy in giving love and support to his family which is sweet and seems to have refocused him on the most important things in life. This is a very real life experience and I'm glad they showed it and we got to understand him better cos so far he was not really clear for me. I hope he is able to find happiness and create a path that fulfills him wether it be his role as a sibling and future husband or beyond. I do hope that he has come to terms with his baseball dreams not being realized...cos that would be sad for him and might bring discontent into the relationship. His role so far in his family more than anything shows how dedicated, loyal and generous he is and I'm so glad we so these parts of him and understand him better. This kind of explains why he's so serious sometimes - with the responsibilities he's had it's understandable. I do think he has a kind heart in the end (as do all F3)

Whether Andi and Josh are a good match - I think the HTD gave a lot more clues than ever before why she might want to be with him and WHO he is as a person. Specifically for Josh's style -- I am not sure how they would be able to handle conflicts given Josh isn't very communicative and articulate. I keep thinking about HOW different Nick and Josh are and then I think - we don't know Andi as well as we think we do and particularly what she needs in a relationship. I wonder what she is thinking in that regard in the short term and in the long term when weighing the two guys and their differences.

I think that Nick is a family guy and from what his mom said and everything we have seen of him so far he's very loyal and been there for her as a mom that's had to raise 11 kids -- being the eldest boy must play a big role in that (similar to Josh). I do think that Nick is similarly responsible and he's also very affectionate, loving, caring, dedicated and a real romantic (his dreams for a relationship is modeled after his own parents). However, I do think what Nick has to offer is very different from Josh. Nick seems to offer more of a partner-in-crime love style specifically for Andi's connection with him -- with the affection/caring, understanding, communication, vulnerability, mutual respect and opportunity to grow together. Nick's connection has the passionate/romantic component but it seems to be the kind that would evolve and challenge them both...and also possibly put them both in a very vulnerable/exposed space. Nick is the kind of person who we've gotten to get to know very well if we look beyond the hilariously bad music and tacky edit..he's very aware of his surroundings but most of all of himself, and IMHO he's a constant adopter. I think Nick's love makes Andi feel giddy, happy, but more than anything it has her feeling "seen fully" i.e. fully exposed. I think that might be scary/challenging depending on what she wants out of life...Nick is an analytical person that looks beyond the surface and unpacks things (IMHO he resembles JP in his temperament and style a bit) while Josh is more of a traditionally "manly man" who I think is a lot more closed off emotionally (IMHO he's more like Roberto who has a bit more of a traditional lifestyle approach).

I think what Josh has to offer is the more traditional male role of fiercely loyal protector, passionate lover & on the practical side more of strong serious family man who may not be as communicative but is dedicated...this is very diff from the partner-in-crime approach of Nick who I think with Andi is more of a companion and a strong communicator. I do think that Josh is a bit more set in terms of his approach to life and I think his role in his sibling's life is going to be center stage with Andi joining them on the stage as opposed to andi and josh creating a life of their own without too much intimate living with his family ....so I do think Andi would be choosing what kind of guy she needs/wants for her life..what kind of life she imagines for herself and her family.

Andi's totally into a "MAN" - to her that's physical poweress, control of his situation and mastery...interestingly...Josh and Nick offer that from veryyy different angles.
Both are super athletic though one has a bigger build & the "jock persona"
Both are forward with her and also vulnerable in very diff ways
Both are loyal and dedicated and have been father figures to their siblings but Nick has a more understated approach
they both have this attribute but the style they exude is totally different

I think Andi's dad is more like Josh...southern man and all
I think Andi is definitely needy and could crave for the safety of Josh's silent loyalty
But it's a true dilemma which asks her who she is as a person and who will bring the best of her out. Does she want constantly be fully seen, understood and challenged - does she want to have that emotional and mental connection that would make her fully vulnerable and totally exposed to grow and change? (echoing nick's plane video "she's like 'i'm scared sh*tless'" Or does she want to kind of protective, traditional male-female relationship that Josh might be able to offer along with his loyalty, care, kindness. How does she see her role as a wife?

I do think that Josh takes things more at face value than Nick and doesn't get too contemplative and if I'm totally frank I do think for him it's a matter of -- he's due for his next step and building a life and that's the next big thing he wants/needs to do in life is to get married....I am not sure Josh is getting too in depth about the "connection" etc. and while he sees all of Andi's qualities and is ready to wed her... I think due to the physical attraction, maybe both him and Andi are keeping it at surface level.

For Nick - finding a soulmate is the goal even if he has to hold out for a bit - a great undeniable connection like he explained to Andi -- in a deeper sense... and his style is very different from Josh's

The main question is - what does Andi want and need -- and ultimately that depends on who she is as a person and I'm realizing I don't know her as well as I think I do...there's no right or wrong answer from US the audience -- it has to be informed by Andi's knowledge of herself...

[Mustang19]

Jason and Molly's postcast about Home Town episode.

http://gossipandreality.com/episode-71-the-final-four-are-now-down-to-three/

[Alanna]

Sorry for a bit of a ramble but a few things became clear to me after HTD.... read on if you'd like

hmm...it did look to me like Andi was concerned about Josh's priorities and how much the family would take center stage. I think that's fairly normal but it's also something that will change over time - it's obvious that a SO changes someone's life and the priority given to other family members and friends will definitely shift. Given how intimately close the siblings have been to a point that Josh was like a second father figure with a lot of responsibility - it is natural that this question would come up. For Josh particularly this is a big question because the family does do things together and there is a bit of pressure on her to shape her life into the unit that currently exissts...I do think josh and the fam are a bit set in their ways...

To me actually the sad part was watching the heartbreak Josh had to go through with his Baseball career because that seems to have truly deflated him but he seemed to find joy in giving love and support to his family which is sweet and seems to have refocused him on the most important things in life. This is a very real life experience and I'm glad they showed it and we got to understand him better cos so far he was not really clear for me. I hope he is able to find happiness and create a path that fulfills him wether it be his role as a sibling and future husband or beyond. I do hope that he has come to terms with his baseball dreams not being realized...cos that would be sad for him and might bring discontent into the relationship. His role so far in his family more than anything shows how dedicated, loyal and generous he is and I'm so glad we so these parts of him and understand him better. This kind of explains why he's so serious sometimes - with the responsibilities he's had it's understandable. I do think he has a kind heart in the end (as do all F3)
Specifically for Josh's style -- I am not sure how they would be able to handle conflicts given Josh isn't very communicative and articulate.

Whether Andi and Josh are a good match - I think the HTD gave a lot more clues than ever before why she might want to be with him and WHO he is as a person. I keep thinking about HOW different Nick and Josh are and then I think - we don't know Andi as well as we think we do and particularly what she needs in a relationship. I wonder what she is thinking in that regard in the short term and in the long term when weighing the two guys and their differences.

I think that Nick is a family guy and from what his mom said and everything we have seen of him so far he's very loyal and been there for her as a mom that's had to raise 11 kids -- being the eldest boy must play a big role in that (similar to Josh). I do think that Nick is similarly responsible and he's also very affectionate, loving, caring, dedicated and a real romantic (his dreams for a relationship is modeled after his own parents). However, I do think what Nick has to offer is very different from Josh. Nick seems to offer more of a partner-in-crime love style specifically for Andi's connection with him -- with the affection/caring, understanding, communication, vulnerability, mutual respect and opportunity to grow together. Nick's connection has the passionate/romantic component but it seems to be the kind that would evolve and challenge them both...and also possibly put them in a very vulnerable space. Nick is the kind of person who we've gotten to get to know very well if we look beyond the hilariously bad music and tacky edit..he's very aware of his surroundings but most of all of himself, and IMHO he's a constant adopter. I think Nick's love makes Andi feel giddy, happy, but more than anything it has her feeling "seen fully" i.e. fully exposed. I think that might be scary/challenging depending on what she wants out of life...Nick is an analytical person that looks beyond the surface and unpacks things (IMHO he resembles JP in his temperament and style a bit) while Josh is more of a traditionally "manly man" who I think is a lot more closed off emotionally.

I think what Josh has to offer is the more traditional male role of fiercely loyal protector, passionate lover & on the practical side more of strong serious family man who may not be as communicative but is dedicated...this is very diff from the partner-in-crime approach of Nick who I think with Andi is more of a companion and a strong communicator. I do think that Josh is a bit more set in terms of his approach to life so I do think Andi would be choosing what kind of guy she needs/wants for her life..what kind of life she imagines for herself and her family.

Andi's totally into a "MAN" - to her that's physical poweress, control of his situation and mastery...interestingly...Josh and Nick offer that from veryyy different angles.
Both are super athletic though one has a bigger build & the "jock persona"
Both are forward with her and also vulnerable in very diff ways
Both are loyal and dedicated and have been father figures to their siblings
they both have this attribute but the style they exude it with is totally different

I think Andi's dad is more like Josh...southern man and all
I think Andi is definitely needy and could crave for the safety of Josh's silent loyalty
But it's a true dilemma which asks her who she is as a person and who will bring the best of her out. Does she want constantly be fully seen, understood and challenged - does she want to have that emotional and mental connection that would make her fully vulnerable and totally exposed to grow and change? (echoing nick's plane video "she's like 'i'm scared sh*tless'" Or does she want to kind of protective, traditional male-female relationship that Josh might be able to offer along with his loyalty, care, kindness. How does she see her role as a wife?

I do think that Josh takes things more at face value than Nick and doesn't get too contemplative and if I'm totally frank I do think for him it's a matter of -- he's due for his next step and building a life and that's the next big thing he wants/needs to do in life is to get married....I am not sure Josh is getting too in depth about the "connection" etc. and while he sees all of Andi's qualities and is ready to wed her... I think due to the physical attraction, maybe both him and Andi are keeping it at surface level.

For Nick - finding a soulmate is the goal even if he has to hold out for a bit - a great undeniable connection like he explained to Andi -- in a deeper sense... and his style is very different from Josh's

The main question is - what does Andi want and need -- and ultimately that depends on who she is as a person and I'm realizing I don't know her as well as I think I do...there's no right or wrong answer from US the audience -- it has to be informed by Andi's knowledge of herself...

If this post was a person, I'd ask it out and woo it and propose with a NL in a beautiful romantic setting. ITA! And I can summarize how I see it too:

Option A Nick- partner in crime, equals, things along with vein and everything you describe
Option B Josh- protective, traditional, MAN and everything you describe

She pretends to want option A but all her behavior, actions, reactions, everything are just dying for option B.

[Norcalgal]

...
Whether Andi and Josh are a good match - I think the HTD gave a lot more clues than ever before why she might want to be with him and WHO he is as a person. I keep thinking about HOW different Nick and Josh are and then I think - we don't know Andi as well as we think we do and particularly what she needs in a relationship. I wonder what she is thinking in that regard in the short term and in the long term when weighing the two guys and their differences.

I think that Nick is a family guy and from what his mom said and everything we have seen of him so far he's very loyal and been there for her as a mom that's had to raise 11 kids -- being the eldest boy must play a big role in that (similar to Josh). I do think that Nick is similarly responsible and he's also very affectionate, loving, caring, dedicated and a real romantic (his dreams for a relationship is modeled after his own parents). However, I do think what Nick has to offer is very different from Josh. Nick seems to offer more of a partner-in-crime love style specifically for Andi's connection with him -- with the affection/caring, understanding, communication, vulnerability, mutual respect and opportunity to grow together. Nick's connection has the passionate/romantic component but it seems to be the kind that would evolve and challenge them both...and also possibly put them in a very vulnerable space. Nick is the kind of person who we've gotten to get to know very well if we look beyond the hilariously bad music and tacky edit..he's very aware of his surroundings but most of all of himself, and IMHO he's a constant adopter. I think Nick's love makes Andi feel giddy, happy, but more than anything it has her feeling "seen fully" i.e. fully exposed. I think that might be scary/challenging depending on what she wants out of life...Nick is an analytical person that looks beyond the surface and unpacks things (IMHO he resembles JP in his temperament and style a bit) while Josh is more of a traditionally "manly man" who I think is a lot more closed off emotionally.

I think what Josh has to offer is the more traditional male role of fiercely loyal protector, passionate lover & on the practical side more of strong serious family man who may not be as communicative but is dedicated...this is very diff from the partner-in-crime approach of Nick who I think with Andi is more of a companion and a strong communicator. I do think that Josh is a bit more set in terms of his approach to life so I do think Andi would be choosing what kind of guy she needs/wants for her life..what kind of life she imagines for herself and her family.

Andi's totally into a "MAN" - to her that's physical poweress, control of his situation and mastery...interestingly...Josh and Nick offer that from veryyy different angles.
Both are super athletic though one has a bigger build & the "jock persona"
Both are forward with her and also vulnerable in very diff ways
Both are loyal and dedicated and have been father figures to their siblings
they both have this attribute but the style they exude it with is totally different

I think Andi's dad is more like Josh...southern man and all
I think Andi is definitely needy and could crave for the safety of Josh's silent loyalty
But it's a true dilemma which asks her who she is as a person and who will bring the best of her out. Does she want constantly be fully seen, understood and challenged - does she want to have that emotional and mental connection that would make her fully vulnerable and totally exposed to grow and change? (echoing nick's plane video "she's like 'i'm scared sh*tless'" Or does she want to kind of protective, traditional male-female relationship that Josh might be able to offer along with his loyalty, care, kindness. How does she see her role as a wife?

I do think that Josh takes things more at face value than Nick and doesn't get too contemplative and if I'm totally frank I do think for him it's a matter of -- he's due for his next step and building a life and that's the next big thing he wants/needs to do in life is to get married....I am not sure Josh is getting too in depth about the "connection" etc. and while he sees all of Andi's qualities and is ready to wed her... I think due to the physical attraction, maybe both him and Andi are keeping it at surface level.

For Nick - finding a soulmate is the goal even if he has to hold out for a bit - a great undeniable connection like he explained to Andi -- in a deeper sense... and his style is very different from Josh's

The main question is - what does Andi want and need -- and ultimately that depends on who she is as a person and I'm realizing I don't know her as well as I think I do...there's no right or wrong answer from US the audience -- it has to be informed by Andi's knowledge of herself...

Great Analysis Emusha. I think you've nailed it. Nick fans are seeing the soulmate connection while Josh fans are seeing a 'perfect match'. When Andi said in the previews, that her heart and her head want different things. Most people assumed her heart wants Josh. I think her heart wants Nick but her head is with Josh. Choosing Josh is the easier path. For me, that tight family would feel like a boa constrictor!

[Cecilia]

Sorry for a bit of a ramble but a few things became clear to me after HTD.... read on if you'd like

hmm...it did look to me like Andi was concerned about Josh's priorities and how much the family would take center stage. I think that's fairly normal but it's also something that will change over time - it's obvious that a SO changes someone's life and the priority given to other family members and friends will definitely shift. Given how intimately close the siblings have been to a point that Josh was like a second father figure with a lot of responsibility - it is natural that this question would come up. For Josh particularly this is a big question because the family does do things together and there is a bit of pressure on her to shape her life into the unit that currently exissts...I do think josh and the fam are a bit set in their ways...

To me actually the sad part was watching the heartbreak Josh had to go through with his Baseball career because that seems to have truly deflated him but he seemed to find joy in giving love and support to his family which is sweet and seems to have refocused him on the most important things in life. This is a very real life experience and I'm glad they showed it and we got to understand him better cos so far he was not really clear for me. I hope he is able to find happiness and create a path that fulfills him wether it be his role as a sibling and future husband or beyond. I do hope that he has come to terms with his baseball dreams not being realized...cos that would be sad for him and might bring discontent into the relationship. His role so far in his family more than anything shows how dedicated, loyal and generous he is and I'm so glad we so these parts of him and understand him better. This kind of explains why he's so serious sometimes - with the responsibilities he's had it's understandable. I do think he has a kind heart in the end (as do all F3)

Whether Andi and Josh are a good match - I think the HTD gave a lot more clues than ever before why she might want to be with him and WHO he is as a person. Specifically for Josh's style -- I am not sure how they would be able to handle conflicts given Josh isn't very communicative and articulate. I keep thinking about HOW different Nick and Josh are and then I think - we don't know Andi as well as we think we do and particularly what she needs in a relationship. I wonder what she is thinking in that regard in the short term and in the long term when weighing the two guys and their differences.

I think that Nick is a family guy and from what his mom said and everything we have seen of him so far he's very loyal and been there for her as a mom that's had to raise 11 kids -- being the eldest boy must play a big role in that (similar to Josh). I do think that Nick is similarly responsible and he's also very affectionate, loving, caring, dedicated and a real romantic (his dreams for a relationship is modeled after his own parents). However, I do think what Nick has to offer is very different from Josh. Nick seems to offer more of a partner-in-crime love style specifically for Andi's connection with him -- with the affection/caring, understanding, communication, vulnerability, mutual respect and opportunity to grow together. Nick's connection has the passionate/romantic component but it seems to be the kind that would evolve and challenge them both...and also possibly put them both in a very vulnerable/exposed space. Nick is the kind of person who we've gotten to get to know very well if we look beyond the hilariously bad music and tacky edit..he's very aware of his surroundings but most of all of himself, and IMHO he's a constant adopter. I think Nick's love makes Andi feel giddy, happy, but more than anything it has her feeling "seen fully" i.e. fully exposed. I think that might be scary/challenging depending on what she wants out of life...Nick is an analytical person that looks beyond the surface and unpacks things (IMHO he resembles JP in his temperament and style a bit) while Josh is more of a traditionally "manly man" who I think is a lot more closed off emotionally (IMHO he's more like Roberto who has a bit more of a traditional lifestyle approach).

I think what Josh has to offer is the more traditional male role of fiercely loyal protector, passionate lover & on the practical side more of strong serious family man who may not be as communicative but is dedicated...this is very diff from the partner-in-crime approach of Nick who I think with Andi is more of a companion and a strong communicator. I do think that Josh is a bit more set in terms of his approach to life and I think his role in his sibling's life is going to be center stage with Andi joining them on the stage as opposed to andi and josh creating a life of their own without too much intimate living with his family ....so I do think Andi would be choosing what kind of guy she needs/wants for her life..what kind of life she imagines for herself and her family.

Andi's totally into a "MAN" - to her that's physical poweress, control of his situation and mastery...interestingly...Josh and Nick offer that from veryyy different angles.
Both are super athletic though one has a bigger build & the "jock persona"
Both are forward with her and also vulnerable in very diff ways
Both are loyal and dedicated and have been father figures to their siblings but Nick has a more understated approach
they both have this attribute but the style they exude is totally different

I think Andi's dad is more like Josh...southern man and all
I think Andi is definitely needy and could crave for the safety of Josh's silent loyalty
But it's a true dilemma which asks her who she is as a person and who will bring the best of her out. Does she want constantly be fully seen, understood and challenged - does she want to have that emotional and mental connection that would make her fully vulnerable and totally exposed to grow and change? (echoing nick's plane video "she's like 'i'm scared sh*tless'" Or does she want to kind of protective, traditional male-female relationship that Josh might be able to offer along with his loyalty, care, kindness. How does she see her role as a wife?

I do think that Josh takes things more at face value than Nick and doesn't get too contemplative and if I'm totally frank I do think for him it's a matter of -- he's due for his next step and building a life and that's the next big thing he wants/needs to do in life is to get married....I am not sure Josh is getting too in depth about the "connection" etc. and while he sees all of Andi's qualities and is ready to wed her... I think due to the physical attraction, maybe both him and Andi are keeping it at surface level.

For Nick - finding a soulmate is the goal even if he has to hold out for a bit - a great undeniable connection like he explained to Andi -- in a deeper sense... and his style is very different from Josh's

The main question is - what does Andi want and need -- and ultimately that depends on who she is as a person and I'm realizing I don't know her as well as I think I do...there's no right or wrong answer from US the audience -- it has to be informed by Andi's knowledge of herself...

ITA. This is the best post ever.

[Sponsored content]