Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 Contestant - Spoilers - Discussion - Thread #5

by happygolucky Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:25 am

I'm with you Mura ... Possible choices for TB and the first on the list aren't Chris or Marquel, because that would be predictable ... oh, no, the first on the list is the most loved F2 guy:
from this season - Josh (who has so much more to offer as far as story goes, since we haven't seen all with Andi), and although I didn't watch, but I heard a lot of good about Arie too, so I see it as a possibility (if he is finally ready for marriage & has no big plans with his career season), since his "fame" hasn't slowed down, heck even I know about him (and find him gorgeous).
As far as Nick's chances - he has non. Even if he wouldn't be F1, he wouldn't become TB.
I can write you a whole study of Why-nots, but the bottom line is He wouldn't do it.

Another answer about how TPTB choose the new bachelor you can find in listening CH on why they chose Brad for TB - because everywhere it goes it gives them epic television.
Asks yourself ... did they make Nick's character appealing enough for audience to care what happens to him? Wherever it goes? (to me, they didn't, they didn't "played on" his 'appeal' or "his evilness/stupidity" (because there is non), making him disliked just on "supposed" arrogance, selfishness, cockiness is not enough ... because they were all triggered by the presence of other men, taken that away, he is just plain, boring character to majority of people
*Note: I do find Nick appealing and far from boring ... but majority of online comments are heading that way, beside, the interesting thing about Nick was his connection with Andi, that is what made him "appealing", you take Andi out of the story, you better be good in finding another girl who would drag that out of Nick again.

by cindebugg Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:14 am

whit90 wrote:
cindebugg wrote:
grace8136 wrote:

I was unspoiled until episode 3-4 and thought it was Josh, though Nick's flowers were significant to her. We later found out that tptb hid their first kiss on ep. 3. After Nick's Venice date it started to change for me. She gave him a very important date with the tux/prince stuff. Also, the sneak out kisses were waaaaaaaaay beyond what her job required of her. She continues to make sure he gets a lot of things first, the FIR, the first HTD and now the first FD which will make Hy happy. My only problem is that it is really following exactly what Nick said on the plane video. He told us the story. Obviously, I hope the video is a fake, but I'm not holding out much hope there. For me, the bigger question is wth happened at the end.

The day part of their FD looks amazing. I'm not buying any of the reasons why Nick got that date over Josh. Look at all that time they got with no mics on in the water, not to mention all the closeness that date gives them. She wanted him there just like she wanted him on the date in Venice, him with the fire works after the group date, him sneaking to her room, and him in the ocean with their hands all over each other. Not saying she didn't like Josh. Obviously she did and he would be her expected choice which also fits what Nick said in the video. TPTB are showing us the love story and his video told us the ending. Nick was not delusional and she was probably giving him way more than we even saw all along. He had every right to believe he'd be the F1. (though he should never had talked to the other guys about it)

We don't know if Josh and Andi didn't have long make out sessions or if they just didn't show us, so I'm not sure how Josh fans see him as a clear winner w/o the spoilers. I'm guessing Josh didn't want to go there on camera (understandable) and brought the passion in the FS. That may have changed the ending. It was finally as passionate as it had been all along with Nick. Poor Nick.

Side note- I think Nick might have told her he loved her in the ocean. He wanted to tell her as she was leaving on the HTD and they were without mics in the ocean. The camera crew was pretty far away. It was the most privacy they've had. He was bursting to tell her. She would have been able to tell him her feelings in return. Like Arie said, you can really say anything. If she didn't say it back, it should be a red flag to him. If he says it again at dinner, it may be the second time.

Here's a slight PRO Nick F1 observation- Mamma Murray has twice tweeted/instagrammed about cutting the cord. That's mocking Andi IMO. She's either not going to be ANdi's MIL or she's going to be a difficult one. I have no problem with her concept that's it's not necessary to cut the cord and Andi can just join it, BUT that would be for Josh and Andi to work through and decide and she should shut up. She's either not too bright or not the future MIL. (IMO)

TPTB were beating us over the head with all the mask symbolism. Very apropos that Nick was on that particular date. I don't think anything happened at the end. IMO it happened in Ghent when Josh said he was falling in love with her. Andi committed to Josh with a silly yellow ribbon and it was over for the other guys. Anything after that is just Andi fulfilling her commitment to ABC.

If Andi is just fulfilling her commitment to ABC then she has a lot of explaining to do with Josh if he is her F1.

Not really. I think the confident Josh we have seen on the show is the same confident guy watching the show. He and Andi both knew what she had to do to get herself and guys to the end. We all know how they creatively edit those kisses They can turn two kisses into a 60 second montage just by showing the same kiss at different angles. Kissing is also a very easy thing to fake even if the feelings aren't there. The kissing isn't really that big a deal. It's the in the moment private interviews and the body language that tells the truth.

So let's pretend that Nick is F1. How is she going to explain to him why the week he told her he was falling in love was just an "OK" week. Or why Belgium was the best week of the journey and not Venice. How is she going to explain away the total meltdown after her argument with Josh. The girl was ugly crying while talking about the Fairytale being too good to be true and than proceeds to drop the mic. laugh out loud

Last but certainly not least and the one thing that I find the most telling, Why was the lead of the show spilling her feelings for Josh to Josh on their first 1 on 1? I thought the guys were supposed to spill their guts to her. Oh and I wonder what the cover story was for the bright yellow bracelet. You know Nick or one of the other guys noticed. It wasn't like he was trying to hide it. And why did Josh get a bracelet when none of the other guys did?

I think I would rather explain a few kisses than all of the above.

by happygolucky Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:29 am

Cindebugg ... it's not about the kisses ... it's about words and actions (together, not one or the other) ... she said things about Nick that transpire deeper connection (at least to me, her words mean deeper feelings than just pure chemistry) and she has done things for Nick, to Nick, with Nick, that she hasn't with others.
As for the answer regarding her OK week and crying ... I don't need to remind you of Des and her declaration of love ... for only realizing later that it wasn't real love, just an infatuation.
And Belgium ... oh, Belgium, Nick&Andi shared 2 mini 1on1s there, then him professing, wanting to marry her and that only continued in USA, back in his home-town with a Belgian dinner ...
About the bracelet - I can't explain, since I still don't know what it means.
But the same goes with a video-spoiler ... it is just there... it's either you accept it or not. And I don't. Then maybe, at the end, you can call me a fool for not believing in the evidence, but for now, I trust my gut.

by cindebugg Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:30 am

jen689 wrote:
emusha wrote:...the way Nick's edit is -- it's looking pretty bad for TB for him...
Remember Brad and how he rejected both Deanna and Jenny at the FRC
The producers still moved forward with Brad 2.0 inspite of the negative reaction from the viewers.

True,but there were 4 years between 1.0 and 2.0. It gave a lot of viewers time to forget his first season.

by SueSt Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:13 am

happygolucky wrote:Cindebugg ... it's not about the kisses ... it's about words and actions (together, not one or the other) ... she said things about Nick that transpire deeper connection (at least to me, her words mean deeper feelings than just pure chemistry) and she has done things for Nick, to Nick, with Nick, that she hasn't with others.
As for the answer regarding her OK week and crying ... I don't need to remind you of Des and her declaration of love ... for only realizing later that it wasn't real love, just an infatuation.
And Belgium ... oh, Belgium, Nick&Andi shared 2 mini 1on1s there, then him professing, wanting to marry her and that only continued in USA, back in his home-town with a Belgian dinner ...
About the bracelet - I can't explain, since I still don't know what it means.
But the same goes with a video-spoiler ... it is just there... it's either you accept it or not. And I don't. Then maybe, at the end, you can call me a fool for not believing in the evidence, but for now, I trust my gut.

good post Happy.
There is just so much 'evidence' on all sides....
Still, hard to change camps at this point... but you do make a good argument! giggling

ADA Andi would be proud.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:41 am

SueSt wrote:
happygolucky wrote:Cindebugg ... it's not about the kisses ... it's about words and actions (together, not one or the other) ... she said things about Nick that transpire deeper connection (at least to me, her words mean deeper feelings than just pure chemistry) and she has done things for Nick, to Nick, with Nick, that she hasn't with others.
As for the answer regarding her OK week and crying ... I don't need to remind you of Des and her declaration of love ... for only realizing later that it wasn't real love, just an infatuation.
And Belgium ... oh, Belgium, Nick&Andi shared 2 mini 1on1s there, then him professing, wanting to marry her and that only continued in USA, back in his home-town with a Belgian dinner ...
About the bracelet - I can't explain, since I still don't know what it means.
But the same goes with a video-spoiler ... it is just there... it's either you accept it or not. And I don't. Then maybe, at the end, you can call me a fool for not believing in the evidence, but for now, I trust my gut.
good post Happy.
There is just so much 'evidence' on all sides....
Still, hard to change camps at this point... but you do make a good argument!
ADA Andi would be proud.

great post Happy ! ITA with your entire post.

with regard to the video plane, it serves as the ' elephant in the room' for those who see the 'It'/wuv story between NiAn. Gosh, how i love a Fleissian metaphor..Not. laugh out loud

by happygolucky Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:06 pm

Since I won't be as present in the next days to comment on the upcoming episode and the "clues/hints" we might get ... I say it now loud and clear:

I still believe in Nick being F1. I will, until I see her doing something that makes me question big time. (and by that I mean, observing the whole picture, the edit, the ITMs, PIs, the dates and body language, conversations and emotions expressed on the face)

If by any reason, Andi at the end decides for Josh ...
I don't need to know the reason (I can imagine it).
It's her choice, her life, her future marriage...
Wouls I think she misled Nick "a bit"? ... yes ... Would he deserve any explanation? ... IMO, no, there is nothing really to explain, she tried, she experienced, she saw, she realized that's not IT.

In that case, I could believe that every word she said was a good script, that every move (as far as roses and time spent together) was a strategic plan to divert, and that to her it was more about the challenge of making a believer out of him.

Or, if I try to see the process as positive, innocent and without the "ulterior game", I would choose the same explanation that Nick gives in the plane video - she was just to d*** scared to try a life with him (and here I would redirect you to one of the posts by Emusha - but I'm too lazy to find it) and chose the one she was familiar with.

That being said, I continue to believe that Nick won't come out of this game heartbroken:

1) because we already saw a "heartbroken" guy leaving not so long ago, so it wouldn't make sense to portray Andi as the woman who "breaks so many hearts" ... all for the game - she let Marcus go, because she couldn't catch up with his feelings, while she is very much aware of Nick's feelings - which could be said (and argued) to be even deeper and stronger (considering how much time they've spent together) ... and she hasn't let him go (all for the game, right?) ... despite being asked by his sister to be "gentle" with his "heart" (sorry, I'm writing these words only to make my point, but believe me that it makes me v**** of so much cheesiness, since this whole "heart" speech is just ridiculous) ... despite knowing that she has another guy she could easily take into F2 (Chris, but she lets him go before).
2) because he was there for her from the beginning till the end, for the right reasons ... even though everyone else questioned that and didn't believe him, criticized him for making plans, strategizing and playing one role with her and one with the others ... and the audience is siding with them, seeing Nick as shady and mischievous, disrespectful and worse ... and today by all the contestants (and CH) we are getting different picture through SM, because they changed their mind, because they've seen something, found out about something they didn't know before (either that or they pretended all along) ... and let's be reminded, that their opinion was also, that Nick would walk away once arriving to F2, because he doesn't want to end up with Andi, but is aiming at something else.
3) because he is so freaking cool, that he would let it slide and move on...

by MiaHawk Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:25 pm

I am a firm believer that in addition to what drama was occuring on GDs in front of Andi, that one or more of the final guys "warned" Andi about Nick. They were probably doing it out of concern for Andi, more than being malicious to Nick. And some of their opinions were probably influenced and heightened by what they were being fed by TPTB. But, I think Andi may have been given some "advice" either willingly or unwillingly, because Andi is a skilled interrogator. If she wants to hear something, she is like a dog with a bone.

by Cecilia Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:30 pm

MiaHawk wrote:I am a firm believer that in addition to what drama was occuring on GDs in front of Andi, that one or more of the final guys "warned" Andi about Nick. They were probably doing it out of concern for Andi, more than being malicious to Nick. And some of their opinions were probably influenced and heightened by what they were being fed by TPTB. But, I think Andi may have been given some "advice" either willingly or unwillingly, because Andi is a skilled interrogator. If she wants to hear something, she is like a dog with a bone.

I agree with this. Interesting that they didn't show it though.

by emusha Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:41 pm

Cecilia wrote:
MiaHawk wrote:I am a firm believer that in addition to what drama was occuring on GDs in front of Andi, that one or more of the final guys "warned" Andi about Nick. They were probably doing it out of concern for Andi, more than being malicious to Nick. And some of their opinions were probably influenced and heightened by what they were being fed by TPTB. But, I think Andi may have been given some "advice" either willingly or unwillingly, because Andi is a skilled interrogator. If she wants to hear something, she is like a dog with a bone.

I agree with this. Interesting that they didn't show it though.

I posted about this earlier...ANDI AND TPTB called out the guys about putting Andi before the bromance and making her the key priority. I doubt there's any reporting about not bro-ing up enough happening

speaking of producer manipulation....this deleted scene came out very early on...it's VERY telling - Andi asked the guys to essentially not make the bromance their priority cos they should keep their focus on the goal - their relationship with andi...funny enough shows Andrew telling nick that with nick and josh being tight it'll get dicey with andi being their shared object of affection...
it also shows (in addition to Andi's prompt to Nick to always just say what he feels and to state it unconditionally to see how it goes) that Nick was listening to Andi very very closely and taking everything to heart. Let's just say the editors went to TOWN!!! on this seed that was planted likely planted with Andi telling her that she got get her guys focused on her vs. the other dudes cos there was maybe so little drama in the house...the guys were playing with each other tooo nicely...(and we all know/tptb more than anyone else that the drama is what brings in the ratings)
also makes sense of JJ's instigator role during one of the cocktail parties where he was saying i'm not gonna be nice and cheer you on...it's def something planted by andi + tptb....it also clarifies how easily Andi was able to hear Nick's explanation of his approach with the guys and she immediately got what he meant and how things seem to be totally normal between nick and the guys (tho i have to say i find it strange that Josh isn't twitter-friendly with the dudes as much -- i mean brian facetimes with Nick every episode and JJ is all over twitter...even dylan and marquel are shouting out nick)

http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette/video/PL5556208/VDKA0_dtrmp49g (notice how BIZARRE it is for CH to visit them without delivering date cards/news...has that ever happened outside of mitigating drama in past episodes?)

somewhat related...i've been very very curious about Andi's agreement rumored at 50K only as her pay day...she's a LAWYER do not forget! I wonder if she negotiated the terms of the SHOW to suit her needs -- that casting isn't based on drama, that she can focus the guys on her and they are all selected for good intentions, that she has the right to make any decision and walk out on decision if she wants etc. etc. she's a smart cookie and maybe not as intimidated as others by the implications of a contract breach etc... if she did this which there are some clues pointing it out...she might be only next to Jilly as my fave bachelorette ever

by emusha Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:40 pm

nick spotted:

@W3Whitney 27m
Dinner with 2 of my favs... Nick V. from The Bachelorette and the voice of Cubs wife Pat Brickouse.… http://instagram.com/p/qcjKFphtUU/

look like he's back in chitown

by emusha Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:41 pm

and a sneak peek -- looks like he's a ball of nerves trying to tell her

http://www.wetpaint.com/the-bachelorette/articles/2014-07-14-sneak-peek-nick-viall-struggles-to-say-i-love-you?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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