Bachelorette 10: Edit-Storyline - *SPOILERS* - should we bother? Oooohhhh... why not? part 2

JBF wrote:I finally watched the video messages of Nick and Josh at abc.com. Those were... interesting.

OK. I always suspect they splice and dice the lead's reaction shots, so we can't tell if he or she is getting teary eyed over the future F1.

Last season, Juan was visibly crying over Clare's, possibly because...
a.) he was planning to dump her
b.) he genuinely was in love with her before Helicopter Fiasco Time... or
c.) he was actually crying over Nikki's instead and it was all slice & dice. What else is new with those $%#@ing editors? NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER will they give us an HONEST Show.

Andi, for her part, looked pretty much the same during both. Great work, editors!

One interesting feature. They really zoomed on her face when Josh talked, but kept her face at a distance with Nick's. Huh?

Concerning the videos themselves. Well... guess I have to get opinionated here and say that I favored Nick's even though he hardly "wow"-ed me.  I don't know why I felt so "cool" and detached with Josh's. He wasn't saying anything wrong... or doing anything wrong. It just sounded a bit too ESPN-ish for me. People who talk that fast make me sometimes question their sincerity, since they are rushing through a speech. Maybe Josh is sincere, but he is still a hard one to "read".

Then again, Andi is hard to "read" herself. When saying she was confident there is "great love" in one of these guys, she reminded me of a research scientist conducting tests on these guys. Maybe I just don't understand her. Does everybody else here see her all gooey in love?

Then again, so much of last episode was just... odd. That scene with Chris departing had a peculiar "staged" feel to it, as if he knew it would happen and was emotionally prepared. Also there wasn't much "foreplay" or on screen discussion before Andi and Josh hopped in the hot-tub. Humorously, that was the very first one we got this season too as I recall. Even Desiree did it with Bryden and Kasey before her F1 Chris last year. I kinda laughed during it because neither Andi nor Josh looked all "into" doing it, but probably were told to by the handlers since Nick didn't on his. (He got the "heart lagoon make-out" instead.)

It is so fascinating how people see things differently. I have watched the "pool scene" of Josh and Andi several times and thought they both looked pretty into it.
I liked both Josh and Nick's video messages. The talking fast doesn't bother me at all especially since he has done it from day one. I am a fast talking southerner also (actually my whole family is).

While I agree that Andi and Nick did not radiate much heat in the ocean, they more than made up for it under the tree when he told he loved her. They both seemed pretty into each other then.

It has a lot to do with the editing too, emeraldluvsbama. They (the editors) were very abrupt and hasty in the way it was shown. At this point, I have no clue how this will end, but also am not terribly gung-ho about watching it either. Assuming Josh is F1, they will really push the rival connection with Nick full-force, jerking viewers all over the place.

I wasn't all that impressed with either video message, they weren't particularly articulate, witty or creative, I remember past seasons being a little more interesting. I did think Nick's was a shade better than Josh's, but noticed that Josh kept repeating over and over that he loved Andi, and wondered if he did that on purpose, because he knows she's insecure about that and wanted to beat it into her hea, er, reassure her.   

ironcat wrote:I wasn't all that impressed with either video message, they weren't particularly articulate, witty or creative, I remember past seasons being a little more interesting.  I did think Nick's was a shade better than Josh's, but noticed that Josh kept repeating over and over that he loved Andi, and wondered if he did that on purpose, because he knows she's insecure about that and wanted to beat it into her hea, er, reassure her.   

That's exactly what I thought! He kept repeating it over and over, probably because she's asked him if he does in a million different ways. If I wasn't so lazy, i would seriously count

Alanna wrote:

ironcat wrote:I wasn't all that impressed with either video message, they weren't particularly articulate, witty or creative, I remember past seasons being a little more interesting.  I did think Nick's was a shade better than Josh's, but noticed that Josh kept repeating over and over that he loved Andi, and wondered if he did that on purpose, because he knows she's insecure about that and wanted to beat it into her hea, er, reassure her.   

That's exactly what I thought! He kept repeating it over and over, probably because she's asked him if he does in a million different ways. If I wasn't so lazy, i would seriously count

Haha!! Yes, someone please count! I will go back and watch. It has to be over 5. I am sure Andi has told him I need to hear it a lot!! Can he "handle her?" I think he can and IS handling her.    Takes someone who is expressive but also someone who is madly in love with her to "handle her!" LOL

Andi will take care of her man no doubt but boy she needs and expects a lot from him. At least she was upfront about it with him. I like the andi i see with Josh. He cracks her serious side and she softens becomes goofy, and she cracks his goofy side and brings out a more emotional and serious Josh.   

soccermom333 wrote:

Alanna wrote:

ironcat wrote:I wasn't all that impressed with either video message, they weren't particularly articulate, witty or creative, I remember past seasons being a little more interesting.  I did think Nick's was a shade better than Josh's, but noticed that Josh kept repeating over and over that he loved Andi, and wondered if he did that on purpose, because he knows she's insecure about that and wanted to beat it into her hea, er, reassure her.   

That's exactly what I thought! He kept repeating it over and over, probably because she's asked him if he does in a million different ways. If I wasn't so lazy, i would seriously count

Haha!!  Yes, someone please count!  I will go back and watch.  It has to be over 5.  I am sure Andi has told him I need to hear it a lot!!  Can he "handle her?"  I think he can and IS handling her.      Takes someone who is expressive but also someone who is madly in love with her to "handle her!"  LOL  

Andi will take care of her man no doubt but boy she needs and expects a lot from him.  At least she was upfront about it with him.  I like the andi i see with Josh.  He cracks her serious side and she softens becomes goofy, and she cracks his goofy side and brings out a more emotional and serious Josh.      

ITA, these two are a win, win. Like Molly Mesnick said on the podcast " t's going to be the biggest upset in the history of everything if she don't pick Josh" I totally agree with her, I think 95% of us believe that there is no way she doesn't choose him.
As far as the scene in the pool, OMG! That is Hotttt to the highest degree. These 2 people are totally in love. Watching the pool scene is pure pleasure. More than 8,000 hit on you tube In 2 days, just saying.

sophienette wrote:I think the previews are him talking about his ex

i found their conversation at the beach about the breakup very strange, it seemed it was more than one. One in his twenty, the girl broke up with thim, and Andi asked, what about the engagement? His fiance dumped him.
I also found curio that his sister was concerned at the HTD say " Can you be you, unapologetical? suggesting there was a side of him that causes him to be dumped.

I also think, underneath all that talk about the others not being good enough for Andi, there were some fears and insecurity underneath, causing him to take extra steps to secure his place in Andi's heart.

Chris S nailed it;what would you do a jackass move like that unless he was insecure? At one time, to me, he came off as though it was simply about the rose and not the girl "I am going todo everything I can to get that rose". Hummm. And he referred to the others as my competition, is this a game for him to win? hum

Another thing I noticed that she really didn't care much about the response cus, she did'nt pursue it even though his response was not clear..Can you image if it was Josh family that said that? To me, it was like" I am not going to pick you any way so it doesn't matter. With Josh, she wants to get to the bottom of every detail. JMO

I didn't know where to post this thought of mine, but I hope here is convenient:

When I said somewhere that I don't see the same doubt of Andi as I've been reading all around ... about Josh. I don't think she is doubting whether he would cheat on her, because he is the former athlete (associating cheating with those type of guys) ... I think she is doubting if they could make it in the real world, seeing how her previous relationships with somebody of similar personality didn't work out. I think Andi is very much drawn to Josh and since I have a real difficulty to "read" Andi, I have no idea what she really feels and thinks ... but the real question and honest answer she has to give to herself. I think once she looks the truth in the eyes ... she would know whether 'that doubt' is simply her voice saying "it's not going to work" or is it just simply a fear of letting herself completely (fall in love).

Josh made such a big hoopty-doo about Andrew's hostess number, despite only hearing about it from "I always tell a lie" JJ, that you would think he takes "cheating" seriously. Let's not forget him all red-faced and in rage with Andrew: "IF I HAD KNOWN FOR A WEEK I WOULD HAVE COME AND CONFRONT YOU, TRUST ME! I’M A GROWN-ASS MAN! I WOULD HAVE CONFRONTED YOU RIGHT AWAY!"

"Cheating", however, is less of an issue than the possibility that his life will revolve around Aaron and sports.

These are the primary "obstacles" Josh must overcome by Last Chance Date so we can have our happy ending with him...

1.) The hometown date clearly showed that her life must adapt to his more than it needs to with the other guys. Even on the Iowa farm, she learned that she could still be an attorney and could make a life work.

2.) Assuming he is F1, the editors should have snipped the following lines on night 1:
"If I wasn't open to moving somewhere else, I might as well not have come here. I might as well stay in Atlanta and try to date someone there."
"There's a reason I'm single and here, y'know what I mean? So maybe my type's gonna change"

Now... in fairness, she did tell Ryan Seacrest that Josh is not exactly the same "type" she used to date despite what she said on screen.

She may also narrate on screen next week that she "thought" she wanted something different, but "comfort" is what a woman like her needs. (Chris Harrison labels Josh her "comfort zone", which hasn't worked in the past, while Nick is the challenging relationship she "aspires to".)

3.) He is very competitive. Andrew said over Josh: "I thought we were all in this together. Now it is becoming very clear that this is a straight up competition. This is ‘mano a mano’. This is very, very competitive."

In the basketball game in episode #4:
One of the WNBA ladies says "There you go Josh, there you go".
She then is shown saying to Andi: "He wants to win"
Andi back at her: "Does he want to win it for himself or me, y'know?"
Response: "That's a very good question."

In fairness, one of the songs he got on a date was "Love Is War".

4.) The Ben Fields song in Marseille details a problem of Josh's: "If there's one good reason to take it ex-slowly, then I haven't found it yet and that is why I'm alone / One good reason for taking it ex-slowly / I know I haven't found it yet and that is why I'm alone"

He needs to slow down. He talks very fast about never feeling like this for somebody else. He tells Hy Dorfman that he is 100% in love with her but says it a little too fast and with too much confidence.

Again, we may see him slow down in the finale, but it appears as if Marcus' departure was partly because he "fell" too early in the process and she was not at the same speed he was. She eliminated Chris because her "head and heart weren't matching"... yet. Like Josh, she needs to slow down as well. (Off topic, a few of us have started questioning if there is, in fact, a Mesnick switch at the end of this since both his and her seasonal promos have a similar editing style. It is possible that they brought F1 to LA, either on the show... and playing with the deception... like Chris or backstage on the sidelines like Nick. This is a way to fool viewers used to the traditional MTA gatherings being all reject oriented.)

5.) Both he and Nick have to get over the "rose issue". While his fans may think that was sweet of him to give her roses on the baseball bleachers, it is still a little too much "about the roses" and The Game (even if he isn't the up front strategist that Nick is, relationships are still a little sports-associated, comparing your wedding day with the Super Bowl). He was fussy twice when others got them on dates.

What he needs to do is tell her on screen the same thing rival Chris stated back in episode #6: "It is not only about the rose. Roses only mean you are developing a relationship."

6.) The word "heartbreak" has been mentioned multiple times with him. Sitting with Harrison before the 6th rose ceremony, she said she saw "glimpses of heartbreak" with Josh. What is complicated here is whether all of the heartbreak will be experienced by HER or by HIM. Nick explained to his mother that, despite being a "favorite", he is prepared to get heartbroken again.

Key scenes involving the H-word:

Episode #4 deleted scene at abc.com:

Andi PI: I need to dig deep with Josh. I need to hear stories. I just want to like... knoooow… more…. I'd like to know who he is. Like, I already have that chemistry with him. That's obvious, but… like.. I want that mental connection. I want that personal relationship too. (Slight smirk on her face, but no clue what that’s about.)
Andi: Tell… me… your… fears.
Josh: I'm skeerd. I mean I haven't had a relationship in over five years. I'm skeerd, like, if I fall in love then (she strokes her hair listening) that person doesn’t feel the same. That's kinda sceery sometimes when you think about that.
Andi: Hm-mmm. Has… that… ever… happened… to… you?
Josh: No. I’ve never had mah heart broken.
Andi (slightly grinning): You… think… you… are more scared of hurting somebody or… more scared of getting hurt?
Josh: Maybe-a-little-bit o'both. (OK) Definitely…
Andi: I’m terrified of getting hurt.
Josh (grinning back at Andi): Definitely fear getting hurt.

Episode #6:

Andi: There’s a part of me, like, that saw potential heartbreak.
Josh: That’s not gonna happen at all. Not with ME.
Andi: I’m just sayin’… there’s a part of me that was, like, THIS could end up in heartbreak
Josh: No. Not at all. Not with ME.
Andi: Why not with YOU?
Josh: Because it is not gonna happen with ME. It is just not it… and I tried telling you that last time. I guess it didn’t come out how I wanted to say.

7.) Lie Detector Test Drama: He has to convince her that Trust is the key to every relationship. For me, that is Josh's crowning statement of the season... and a good "theme" to use if he happens to become next Bachelor. (Harrison hinted they may give us a "curve-ball" in an E! interview regarding the selection of the next lead.)

(Interesting trivia regarding the lie detector: While JJ and Chris were asked if they were here for THE Right Reasonssss, Josh was asked if he was here for A Right ReasoN. Josh was cautious in answering... thinking a bit first. Back in episode #3, he told Andrew: "We're all here for THE Right Reasonssss and we want to make sure you are.")

Again, every F1 has challenges to overcome and, if Josh is F1, he is no exception. If the "red flags" are not resolved and he is still F1, then the editors are giving us hints as to why they may break up post-show. Or maybe the "red flags" don't really matter in the long run anyway. That has been the case in past seasons too.

I can't believe how you do this, it's not easy JBF, great job and thank you for all the editing analysies.

Josh/Andi recap from MTA:

The first time I see Josh he’s the last guy out of the limo
Hi How are you?
You look absolutely gorgeous. Nice to finally meet you, I’m Josh
He’s totally my type. I’m definitely attracted to him. He lives in Atlanta. Nailed it. Pegged it.
My mom absolutely loves you. She does. I mean you’re the whole package.
He just has that dark hair. Those piercing eyes. He’s tall; he’s built. He’s a hunk.
You know when you haven’t had that feeling about anybody in the past. And you’re like, ok, you like somebody, you like somebody, ok, like everything’s chill, but when I actually like somebody it’s very tough
You’re rambling.
Am I rambling?
Allright, stop it, stop making me nervous now.
There’s definitely a lot of chemistry between the two of us. To think that I could feel this strongly, like so quickly like also made me think, like, is it too good to be true. I worry about being hurt by him.
I always kind of dated the athletes; I’ve always kind of been around that lifestyle; and so you are a struggle with me with that.
I hope you don’t stereotype me with that, like I was a pro baseball player… I’m totally different than that.
I was tough on him because I had this idea of who I thought he was.
I know you have you doubts; I won’t let you get nervous but put those fears aside, I’m here for the right purpose. So as we continue on this journey; there’s one thing I want you to know. I’m here for you whole heartedly and I can’t wait to see where this goes.
He makes me feel happy and I feel like very hopeful when I look at him.
Bonita
Hi.
I’m in love with Andi and I’m excited… that Andi’s definitely going to be my wife
Two little southern kids – merci
She is literally the first person in so long where I actually have butterflies talking to.

And I’ve wanted to tell you … I do love you and I’ve never said that to someone before that I really meant it. The way I feel for Andi.. I’ve never felt that before in my life. Never.
And I told you the next person I say that to I want to marry and spend the rest of my life with … and I love you and that’s what I want.
I am totally in love with Andi and I am excited; I wish we could just start today and begin the rest of our lives together. It’s so real and the feeling that Andi and I have for each other. I mean it’s a very special thing and I can’t see her having that with anybody else. To find her and make her my wife and have kids together that’s what it’s all about. I waited 29 year to have this feeling and I finally have it and I definitely don’t want to let it go so I’m going to fight for her. She’s the one for me, without a doubt