*NO SPOILERS* The Bachelorette 10 - Episode Discussion

:WAVEY:  Hi! I come from the spoiled side, and have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your posts (I only went back to the posts beginning with this HTD episode though) and totally admire your ability to remain strong and steadfast about not getting spoiled! I truly want to try that next b'ette season most especially. Not sure I would have the same willpower as you gals!   

I won't comment individually on every post I agree with when it comes to assessing Andi's feelings for her three remaining guys, etc., as it would take too long and would be every post I am certain. If Josh is not the F1, I will also be a card carrying member of #TeamIdiot, if you will allow me. In BL alone, for me, he has Andi's heart, hands down. Whomever posted the comments about the BL in the new banner expressed exactly what I see, and then I believe Peppermom posted the picture of Josh and Andi kissing in Ghent when he greeted her at the beginning of the date. That is the way the two constantly are! The are always completely entwined with each other, there is no leaning back, it actually always looks like they can't lean in close enough for me. There embraces form a circle, and it would be hard to pull apart.

I believe it was GG who broke down the upcoming FDs, and why each bachelor received those dates. I totally concur!

I can't wait for next week, and I hope you won't mind if I continue to lurk and read all of your future thoughts.   

 we're happy to have you piper!!

JBF wrote:

GrahamGal wrote:One of the themes to "Jodi" this season has been "Too good to be true" and I am going to apply that same theme to the unspoiled that will forever be known as #teamidiot if we are all wrong.  Personally I hope that unspoiled people who see Nick or Chris as F1 are no afraid to post here since we are all seeing Josh as the most likely F1.  If any unspoiled Nick or Chris F1 people are out there I'm sure we would all love to hear it.  So please chime in if you exist.

I know some think the ending is all to clear, where is the hidden F1?  That we are seeing the F1 so clearly is just unusual.  TPTB are giving it to us on a silver platter.  This is "Too good to be true!" (see what I did there?   ).  However, I wonder if TPTB decided that since this season had the tragic passing of Eric Hill they decided to just be more obvious to the viewers as to who the F1 is for Andi.  We still have the drama (thanks Nick) and the contrived hurdles for Andi and her F1, but underneath it all we can easily see the love story that happened between "Jodi". As you put it Maggenzm, they just fit.  It's the same think I saw with Jash, that I could really just never explain.

I really hope I am not a card carrying member of #teamidiot in a few weeks.

I posted a photo of a jack-ass at the end of Juan's season because I thought Clare... up until the two had their fight on LCD and it became clear he was NOT picking her. Ha ha!

So if you are #teamidiot for whatever reason, just hold your banner high with pride. I have no shame for being wrong guessing the outcome of a silly TV show, when... like The Amazing Race... anything can happen in the final hour.

OK... I have stayed out of the non-spoiler threads this season, but I will plop a link that is entirely up to you to check out. Not "pushing anything" on anybody here.

Did my best to avoid any reference to any spoilers here, sticking strictly to The Edit and the behavior of production in terms of twitter comments. Also included Jimmy Kimmel in the mix. The point: to question why one of the three remaining guys is getting such a bizarre EDIT. Also included several possibilities for those not willing to "think" F1 possibility, including him becoming Next Bachelor or simply playing "The Mole".

https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2463-chris-soules-bachelorette-10-fan-forum-screencaps-pics-vids-no-discussion#644157

At fist I was afraid to click on the link,  but with a little nudge from GA I went for it!

Very interesting read from a viewpoint we haven't talked much about, Chris as F1.  I must admit my head is spinning, but thank you for sharing.  It really made me think of Chris and his edit more, and it doesn't strike me as an F1 at all when laid out in front of me as you did JBF.

In general what I gleaned from this is that the Chris for Bachelor campaign picked up steam in the last few episode.  This may go to the point I made about Josh getting a TB edit even though I see him as F1 by following the lead.  Maybe what I said about them showing Josh as TB in his edit in case he was no longer with Andi even though he was F1 are true.  Maybe now TPTB realize Jodi is going to make it (at least in the short term) so they need to bring another TB to the front.  Hence the late push for Chris.  Chris got a episode 2 1on1 then was basically MIA episodes 3-5, including not even getting a date week 3.  If they had made such a connection during their 1on1 he would have been on that GD over any of the many MOT guys, no doubt.  With the strong TB push at the end they are making it appear as if he was a horse in this race.  I'll just put this in racing terms since Chris had the racetrack date.  Josh wins (Andi's heart), Nick places, and Chris shows (gets his own show, TB).  See what I did there? While Chris makes a great strides down the backstretch he comes up short in the end.  Too little, too late.

Thanks again JBF for posting the link. Gave me a lot to think about, A LOT.

Note: I will not fully claim a seat at the #teamidiot table until I am proven as such.

Piper61 wrote::WAVEY:   Hi!  I come from the spoiled side, and have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your posts (I only went back to the posts beginning with this HTD episode though) and totally admire your ability to remain strong and steadfast about not getting spoiled!  I truly want to try that next b'ette season most especially.  Not sure I would have the same willpower as you gals!   

I won't comment individually on every post I agree with when it comes to assessing Andi's feelings for her three remaining guys, etc., as it would take too long and would be every post I am certain.  If Josh is not the F1, I will also be a card carrying member of #TeamIdiot, if you will allow me.  In BL alone, for me, he has Andi's heart, hands down.  Whomever posted the comments about the BL in the new banner expressed exactly what I see, and then I believe Peppermom posted the picture of Josh and Andi kissing in Ghent when he greeted her at the beginning of the date.  That is the way the two constantly are!  The are always completely entwined with each other, there is no leaning back, it actually always looks like they can't lean in close enough for me.  There embraces form a circle, and it would be hard to pull apart.  

I believe it was GG who broke down the upcoming FDs, and why each bachelor received those dates.  I totally concur!  

I can't wait for next week, and I hope you won't mind if I continue to lurk and read all of your future thoughts.   

#teamidiot does not discriminated between spoiled and unspoiled. All will be welcomed. However, we may need a really big bus, or two, for all our members.

As to the BL. I put a lot of stake in that along with following the lead. It's just to hard to edit. I have tried watching some of the episodes with the sound off to try and pick up someone other that Josh as F1. The more I watch the more I am convinced that he is the only option as F1. VO and ITMs have been all over the place this year to the point I discard most of what she says in them since I have no idea who she is usually actually talking about.

LibbyBell wrote: we're happy to have you piper!!

Thank you, LibbyBell!  :cutesmile!: 

GrahamGal wrote:

Piper61 wrote::WAVEY:   Hi!  I come from the spoiled side, and have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your posts (I only went back to the posts beginning with this HTD episode though) and totally admire your ability to remain strong and steadfast about not getting spoiled!  I truly want to try that next b'ette season most especially.  Not sure I would have the same willpower as you gals!   

I won't comment individually on every post I agree with when it comes to assessing Andi's feelings for her three remaining guys, etc., as it would take too long and would be every post I am certain.  If Josh is not the F1, I will also be a card carrying member of #TeamIdiot, if you will allow me.  In BL alone, for me, he has Andi's heart, hands down.  Whomever posted the comments about the BL in the new banner expressed exactly what I see, and then I believe Peppermom posted the picture of Josh and Andi kissing in Ghent when he greeted her at the beginning of the date.  That is the way the two constantly are!  The are always completely entwined with each other, there is no leaning back, it actually always looks like they can't lean in close enough for me.  There embraces form a circle, and it would be hard to pull apart.  

I believe it was GG who broke down the upcoming FDs, and why each bachelor received those dates.  I totally concur!  

I can't wait for next week, and I hope you won't mind if I continue to lurk and read all of your future thoughts.   

#teamidiot does not discriminated between spoiled and unspoiled.  All will be welcomed.  However, we may need a really big bus, or two, for all our members.

As to the BL.  I put a lot of stake in that along with following the lead.  It's just to hard to edit.  I have tried watching some of the episodes with the sound off to try and pick up someone other that Josh as F1.  The more I watch the more I am convinced that he is the only option as F1. VO and ITMs have been all over the place this year to the point I discard most of what she says in them since I have no idea who she is usually actually talking about.

Thank you for the welcome, GG! I think you are correct on the really big bus or two because there are many more who would join us from the other side.    I, too, believe that all you have to do is really watch Andi. I don't know if it has been discussed over here, but just looking at her reaction when Josh finally told her on their Belgium date that he was falling in love with her. For me, her smile was so bright, and then she added the nose crinkle...it was the cutest thing, and so different from her reaction to the other F4 guys when they all expressed the same feelings to her.

Hi to those from the spoiled side stopping in!  :WAVEY: 

JBF-mind boggling how you put that all together!  :alltens: Wouldn't even know where to begin or what to say to that. Do you happen to have something like that for Josh?? I've seen so many things that point to him too, but overall their chemisty is leaps and bounds over anything she has with Chris.

I like Chris well enough, he's nice, a gentleman, thoughtful, sent sweet notes...but the edit he's gotten I never really felt a connection with him. For so long I didn't want him as the next lead, but I'm coming around a little and if he is I'll watch. On the other hand if Chris if F1 I'll be surprised and wonder where that chemistry is she has had with Josh. Even with the edit, she doesn't sizzle with anyone but Josh. Of course Josh helps in that department!  

I'm on the spoiled side, obviously, but I'm having a hard time because of the BL. I see it with all F4 of the guys! When I look at the three pictures in the banner, she has her hands in pretty much the exact same spot with all three guys. I'm curious to know why the banner is swaying the opinion one way or another.

Wow what a post JBL. Thanks for the insight.

I mentioned the banner GA. For me the hands are there but with Chris, her arms and elbows are between them. Holding him slightly back away from her body. With Nick it looks like she is arching her back away from him and the lower half of their bodies do not touch. The pic that was posted of Andi and Josh standing and kissing showed their bodies touching top to bottom and their arms completely entwined. That isn't the first time I've seen that with all of them in the same basic way. It is subtle and you have to look to see it. It struck me as a small sign so that's why I brought it up.

Lost17 wrote:Hi to those from the spoiled side stopping in!  :WAVEY:

JBF-mind boggling how you put that all together!  :alltens: Wouldn't even know where to begin or what to say to that. Do you happen to have something like that for Josh?? I've seen so many things that point to him too, but overall their chemisty is leaps and bounds over anything she has with Chris.

I like Chris well enough, he's nice, a gentleman, thoughtful, sent sweet notes...but the edit he's gotten I never really felt a connection with him. For so long I didn't want him as the next lead, but I'm coming around a little and if he is I'll watch. On the other hand if Chris if F1 I'll be surprised and wonder where that chemistry is she has had with Josh. Even with the edit, she doesn't sizzle with anyone but Josh. Of course Josh helps in that department!  

GrahamGal wrote:At fist I was afraid to click on the link,  but with a little nudge from GA I went for it!

Very interesting read from a viewpoint we haven't talked much about, Chris as F1.  I must admit my head is spinning, but thank you for sharing.  It really made me think of Chris and his edit more, and it doesn't strike me as an F1 at all when laid out in front of me as you did JBF.

In general what I gleaned from this is that the Chris for Bachelor campaign picked up steam in the last few episode.  This may go to the point I made about Josh getting a TB edit even though I see him as F1 by following the lead.  Maybe what I said about them showing Josh as TB in his edit in case he was no longer with Andi even though he was F1 are true.  Maybe now TPTB realize Jodi is going to make it (at least in the short term) so they need to bring another TB to the front.  Hence the late push for Chris.  Chris got a episode 2 1on1 then was basically MIA episodes 3-5, including not even getting a date week 3.  If they had made such a connection during their 1on1 he would have been on that GD over any of the many MOT guys, no doubt.  With the strong TB push at the end they are making it appear as if he was a horse in this race.  I'll just put this in racing terms since Chris had the racetrack date.  Josh wins (Andi's heart), Nick places, and Chris shows (gets his own show, TB).  See what I did there? While Chris makes a great strides down the backstretch he comes up short in the end.  Too little, too late.

Thanks again JBF for posting the link.  Gave me a lot to think about, A LOT.

Note: I will not fully claim a seat at the #teamidiot table until I am proven as such.

There is nothing wrong with being #teamidiot since that is Mike Fleiss' job to make a certain percentage of the viewers that.

Some seasons you will get it right.

Some seasons you won't.

Life will go on.

There are 5 posts... or "parts" to that link. You can jump to part 5, where things get most interesting. As she stated after a rapid montage in the seasonal promo, "my life is going to change forever".

For both of you above... we all see this show differently, so I am not going to debate anything here. On the surface, it seems like either Josh or Nick is the "winner" (to casual viewers not re-watching the show closely), but Chris' edit is so complex. It is as if he was mostly hidden for a very specific reason. By "hidden", I just mean in terms of how many make-out sessions he gets with her. Otherwise, he clocks more screen time than the other two as narrator and date participant.

If I had to break down the final three guys' edits to their core parts, this is how I am reading them... as best as I can.

Nick:

Mental connection is off the charts. She explains to his youngest sister Bella about her "mental connection" with Nick. (Nick = Her Head. They play word games in Brussels.)

"He sees every part of me". Nick is doing what she wants a man to do, by taking charge of the relationship... taking the initiative. (Brussels: "they should want to sneak over. This is week 7. GO for it.")

Does Nick have a competitive streak? Going by his PI sessions… yeah.
-Eric, the deceased one, even called him competitive when his alone time was interrupted by his flower delivery.
-Our first scene of Nick at work was during JJ’s attack on Andrew, for getting a hostess’ phone number, which mysteriously seemed to have other reasons behind it.
Andrew: (shown) No, I am not lying about getting the phone number. (Nick shown) Somebody handed me it. That was that. (Back to Andrew) Bragging about it. That I don’t remember.
Nick: (shown with Marquel listening) You told us five guys in the car and told the six guys in the room. I woke up…
Andrew: (shown) That’s strange. I don’t remember that.
Nick: I do. Like I was in the room.
-During the Basketball game, he says the 5 of hearts can “suck it”
-In Marseille, Cody attacked him for all of his “frontrunner” talk
-He was called out as a strategist in Brussels by Chris, but humorously says “choosing me to being strategic as apposed to genuine, like…bugs me because that’s what I’m doing” In other words, he is proud to be competitive. No shame to his game!

Andi's line in Marseilles: "Am I being fooled by Nick?" They wear masks in Venice. Masks played a key role back in Ashley's season as you may recall.
-In Nick's favor, Masked Jeff told Ashley Hebert (now Rosenbaum) "True love starts from something on the inside and, yes, physical attraction is important, but really longterm (it) is all about what is on the inside." In Venice, Nick and Andi read the gondola sign "Don't fall in love with the most beautiful woman in the world, but the one who makes your world more beautiful."
-Less favorably for Nick, the episode Jeff removed his mask, William upset Ashley at the comedy roast and Bentley left... and she realized there were other "masks" being worn besides Jeff's. Both Nick and Andi wearing masks in Venice could suggest that they are not being totally honest with each other.

Potty reference (just to be funny): pigeon almost pooped on him, but he told Andi he will "embrace the moment".

Dogs: Three on leashes were shown during his Santa Barbara bike-ride. He told Brian in Brussels that he intends to marry Andi on a mountain and get a dog named Murray, whom he will introduce to Josh when the happy couple visit one of Aaron's games. However, the family terrier on the hometown is just called "The Dawg".


Josh:

Physical chemistry is strong, although a few critics of the Jodi Fan Club (a.k.a. #TeamNick & #TeamChris) do question if the talk on screen is greater than the action.

He is her "type", but... "There's a reason I'm single and here, y'know what I mean? So maybe my type's gonna change"

She told Emil on night #1: "If I wasn't open to moving somewhere else, I might as well not have come here. I might as well stay in Atlanta and try to date someone there". She says in Marseille: "It is crazy. We are two kids from Atlanta, two miles apart, and we are in this palace and it is just, like..." Josh responds "It is gorgeous". Both are experiencing The Fairy Tale together. Will the fairy tale carry over into real life?

Does Josh have a competitive streak? Going by his PI sessions… you would think not, except in a sports sense (comparing your wedding day to the Super Bowl). However…
-He was involved in JJ’s attack on Andrew, which mysteriously seemed like JJ being set on getting him removed: “If I had known for a week I would have come and confront you, trust me! I’m a grown-ass man! I would have confronted you right away!” (JJ later admitted, in a clever bit of voice-over work during the lie-detector test, that he may have lied to Josh about the whole thing. He also voiced over both Josh and Marcus “we shouldn’t be happy” that Chris got the group rose on that same date.)
-During the basketball game, one of the WNBA ladies says "There you go Josh, there you go", then turned to Andi: "He wants to win." Andi back at her: "Does he want to win it for himself or me, y'know?" Response: "That's a very good question."
-He mostly kept his mouth shut when Nick was called out as a strategist in Brussels, but did say “I’m getting sick of it, the game play and stuff.”

Intriguingly, one of the two songs played on his dates is American Young's "Love Is War":

Young lovers in a picture frame / Ever notice how there ain't no rain
Nobody hangs hard times on the wall / You won't see it in an 8 by 10
But there's a storm every now and then / A slamming door down the hall

Sometimes love is a white flag / Sometimes love is standing tall
Sometimes love is a feather / Sometimes a cannon ball
But it's worth fighting for (it's worth fighting for)
Baby, sometimes love is war

Both he and Nick are going through this process on a very fast speed, while Chris is the #5 horse at Santa Anita running sideways. During the Marseille date, the Ben Fields song asks Josh to slow down with these lines emphasized (altered from their original wording): "If there's one good reason to take it ex-slowly, then I haven't found it yet and that is why I'm alone / One good reason for taking it ex-slowly I know I haven't found it yet and that is why I'm alone"

She questions on day #1 if he is genuine, then re-questions him after his fuss with the lie detector test. Then she worries if "the chord" can be cut from his brother. If F1, all of these red flags will need to be resolved. We have another episode to see if they are.

His back story is emphasized more than with Nick and Chris: A baseball injury set him back in his life. She wants to build him up (per hometown visit & the upcoming promo hints he may plays sports with kids). With his focus on brother Aaron succeeding with the NFL, his mother Lauren tells him: "you put yourself last for so long".

Potty reference (just to be funny): sea gull pooped on him and he took it as a "good sign".

Dog: Sable, his beloved bulldog, co-starred in "Meet Josh M." (struggling at the leash) and on his hometown date.


Chris:

"I'm so happy"/"Maybe I just need to bet on the right horse" date at Santa Anita is a great solo date for Chris, but casual viewers rule him out of the running on account of limited screen footage with her after episode #2.

Hidden for several episodes, but...
= Secret Admirer Letters
= recreating "Ghost" pottery scene in Brussels
= playing Ghost in the Graveyard at hometown
= Bachelorette banners at abc.com are “ghostly” half out of focus
= Chris out of focus in two key shots after her episode #4 fight with Eric
= strong Eric/Chris connection in first four episodes (lots of shots of them together), Dylan discusses the deaths of his family members to Chris first

Does Chris have a competitive streak? This is an interesting question since many who dislike him over on the abc.com messageboards consider him a strategist with his letters (despite Nick and Marcus also giving her them in episode #3).
-His horse lost to Andi's #9 at Santa Anita, but he still considers himself a "winner".
-He was the only head I noticed that was missing in the room when Andrew was being "cornered".
-When he got the group rose in Venice, he said: “It is not only about the rose. Roses only mean you are developing a relationship. It kinda reassured me that she is excited about where we are at and what I had done.”
-Also he hasn’t been complaining, apart from simply saying he was disappointed, for not getting the 1 on 1 dates that Nick, Marcus and Josh received pre-hometowns. Nick even got a mini-3rd one.

So far, we don’t have any “red flags” indicating why she may dump him, but Marcus only had the prospect of leaving working against him, but assured her he was staying… and he is now gone. She says Chris is her support system: “Chris is always that dash of hope when it’s a bad day and times it is rough, it is weird how Chris is always there to swoop in. I like it.”

Nonetheless, the motherboard made a big hoopty-doo about his "bad boy" past. He had a bit DUI trouble in his youth and less serious brushes with the law a dozen years or so ago and had to re-change his lifestyle. This probably rules him out as a "squeaky clean" Bachelor all of the ladies will fling themselves to. Yet it also explains the choice of song on his date, from (the appropriately named) Wild Life: "Running straight into walls while you’re suffering withdrawals / When will I ever get a better hand? / I am losing my hope and it hurts in my throat / Have my back to the coast at the end of my rope / Oh, will I ever be a better man? / Am I meant to be alone?" It is interesting that his song is more pessimistic than the two that Josh gets on his 1 on 1 dates, emphasizing enjoying the experience even if it isn't quite... ordinary... as Ben Fields sings in the first song: "It's an ordinary day, an ordinary night, an ordinary face and an extraordinary light / An ordinary way to an ordinary life and ordinarily I would stay, but this is not ordinary, right?"

Hometown lines by Andi:  "I really saw Chris for who he was and saw a life with him". Says she’s on Cloud 9.

Chris = Her Heart.
-"Seeing that sign just shook me, like, totally melted my heart. I mean… this is a guy proclaiming his love and it was just the sweetest cutest gesture. I mean… without a doubt, the most romantic thing anyone has ever done."

However, there is a Head (a.k.a. Nick) vs. Heart (a.k.a. Chris) conflict:
-In promos for Monday, she sobs "My head and heart don’t match up".
-In promos for Monday, Chris asks her "Where is your gut right now?"
-Previous use of the word gut: Chris told Andi in episode #2 the reason he couldn't marry before... "One thing that kinda resonated with me today with the couple (who said he and Andi looked like a perfect couple) was I asked them that question of when do you know? How do you know? She is, like, you just got to know in your gut, you know? When I proposed, I knew it wasn't in my gut. I was using my head instead of my heart. I will never do that again." In rose ceremony #3, Andi says "Not easy but… I’m gonna go with my gut and my gut looks like it was right now."
-Linda's line to Andi: "If you love somebody, you are going to make it no matter where you live, but you don’t know what is going to make you happy. You just have to know what’s in your heart. That’s what you go by."
-Andi: "My head is spinning at this point. There is definitely a huge momentum with Chris, like… maybe it is taking a hometown for me to realize this is a man who has been standing in front of me the whole time."

Potty reference (just to be funny): admits he had an accident once or twice in the cornfield. Fears accidental diarrhea in his abc.com bio.

No dogs though.

JBF-fascinating reading you analysis, I appreciate the time and effort you put into them!

JBF wrote:we all see this show differently, 

Very true! Amazing how many "teams" there can be and still think theirs is F1. My mind doesn't work with all the analyzing parts of the show (which is why I leave that to all of you-always love to read what everyone thinks)...I go by chemistry/physical attraction, it's worked well for me in the past, but yes, the edits have gotten me a time or two.

The ghost portion of your analysis was one I never thought of, interesting. Amazing what is hidden in plain sight and so many miss. Looking forward to how all this plays out.

JBF have you gone into a season unspoiled before? If not I hope you give it a go next season. Would like to see your take on everything without knowing the guys ahead of time, etc.

I ADORE Chris, but how will they cast for that season? I know it only takes one to make a match, but 25 young, giggly, Courtney/Ali-wannabees will NOT gel with our millionaire farmer. I worry what the machine will do him.