Juan Pablo Galavis - Nikki Ferrell - Bachelor 18 - Discussion

Kashathediva wrote:Per whit90

It is funny how we all watch the same show and have different perspectives of what happened.

That's the beauty of a discussion thread!

True. I typically stick to the discussion threads for 2 reasons:
1) IMO, they are more interesting.
2) It's rare for me to only think good thoughts and therefore post only good thoughts.*
(* The exception being my only good thoughts about My Strudel Marcus. )

MiaHawk wrote:

I don't usually discuss JPG and Nikki. Not my circus. Not my monkeys. (LOVE that phrase!) But, I will comment based on what I observed on TB alone (I do not follow them post show or on CT).

I always observed JPG to be paternalistic towards the women on his show.  This is not something that the typical American woman likes long term, IMO. It may be nice to have a man treat you with tenderness and protectiveness, but not when you realize that deep down inside he is doing it because he feels he NEEDS to take care of you because he knows best. I saw JPG as being disinterested in discussing difficult or uncomfortable topics, and choosing instead to either placate the woman with "It's okay" or shutting down emotionally.  I don't know if it is manipulation or just ineptitude on his part.  

I always observed Nikki to be negative, whiny, and generally unsympathetic on TB.  Those tiffs between her and Clare showed her mean-spirit, IMO.  I never saw any strong connection between he and JPG.  I think she was more interested in the idea of 'winning' and beating Clare than anything. I think she was enamored with the idea of love and not necessarily in love with JPG. But, she is stubborn, so she stuck with him on the off chance that it might be real.

IMO, it was never real love. Yeah, there may have been an attraction, physical chemistry, some admiration, some fondness. But not the kind of love that a true relationship is built on. That take 2 adults treating each other as equals, open communication and the willingness to discuss difficult topics, and the ability to be deeply vulnerable.  They, IMO, did not have that capacity as a couple.      

This totally.

JPab was not my monkey. I didn't want him as the Bachelor and probably made people sick expressing that opinion...repeatedly. Nikki left me cold. I thought she was a spoiled whiner and wanted to win. (There was a reason she was friends with Andi.) The two of them both wanted to prove a point and that was more important than any relationship they may have had or were trying to have. He wanted to flip the bird to the producers and she wanted to prove that she was a winner and wasn't wrong. It was just a matter of time anyway you slice it. I had predicted a well placed break up just as the next season started. They couldn't even pretend that long.

LOL, being friends with Andi for Nikki seems to her real problem for some......

glazedover wrote:Also, unlike many here, I don't see JPG's behavior as loving. He was hot and cold. Very affectionate sometimes, belittling and withholding at other times. A very manipulative guy. I see Nikki as very naive and not self-reflective and also a little selfish. I don't see either of them as "blameless' but I grew to actively dislike JPG as I watched his behavior on CT. I see him as very self-absorbed and selfish, using physical affection as a manipulative tool and not backing it up with loving perception or intention. It really was all about him.

I think this explains the JPG I saw much better than anything I could have written. I get that some see him as affectionate and I guess he could be, but physical affection and perhaps intimacy was how he shut down conversations about anything cerebral with a woman. I found it not only manipulative but very sexist - he was not interested in listening to a woman's opinions or concerns and it was demeaning that he treated them as little more than a "make out" object. When he couldn't shut down conversations by starting to make out he would talk in circles that no one could actually follow and turn the tables into making the woman to blame. He did this with Sharleen, Nikki and I suspect Andi. And perhaps any other woman he's ever been with.

Acrunch wrote:As a Latin woman who's married to a Latin man and has many Latin men in her family and Latin acquaintance (Miami girl)...I never bought his language/ILU/Te Amo/culture BS.  He either was in love with her or he was not.  Saying the words, in English or Spanish wouldn't be difficult for him if he felt them...in whatever language.  IMO, he didn't...hence why he couldn't give her the assurances for a future she obviously needed.  Nikki, being in love, gave him time to hopefully get his feelings for her where hers were for him.  She made the mistake of thinking she could change him; make him love her.  As time past, IMO she just grew disillusioned and less and less hopeful and started as Dr. Jenn said, not trying so much to make him love her.  She probably hung on to the relationship longer than she should have because JP probably strung her along and being a girl in love, she bought it because it was easier to keep trying and believing than facing the hurt of losing him completely.  One of the most telling moments for me watching CT was when in a session with Dr. Jenn, she point blank asked him if he loved her.  She wanted a yes or no answer.  Instead of doing that, he beat around the bush, turned the situation around by acting the injured party for her suggesting he was fake and she ended up apologizing to him.  That's what I mean by stringing her along.  He's a manipulator in my opinion.   I think JPG might love her but I never got the impression he was IN love with her and never thought he really saw a future wife, mother of his children, in her either.  And that's what I believe Nikki needed and wanted to believe but finally realized it wasn't in the cards.

Another landmark post. I always felt JPG's "cultural" excuse was so much gobbledegook - a line of BS a guy might say to a woman to make her think he felt something that he didn't (for guys who play that game it's usually so they can get in the woman's bed). But I could never be certain (and probably neither could Nikki) until you posted this ^^^^^

I think there were several "telling moments" during the filming of CT. You described one of them. Another was when the human lie detector kept asking JPG "Do you love Nikki" and finally put him in a corner where he said "No". Another was when Dr. Jenn told Nikki "You have been trying so long to make JPG love you and once you've stopped trying, you're wondering if he's the right guy for you" And another was when Nikki challenged JPG to "Tell me you don't love me" (previously she was convinced he did and sooner or later would tell her he did. Put together I think Nikki "checked out" of the relationship during filming of CT. She gave in and went through the rest of filming to get through it and appear to support JPG for his sake - all along knowing she would break up with him. I think the gift of the ring bought JPG some time and she did the trip to Bali to support JPG - but all along knowing that she would soon break up with him. And finally she did. Nikki's no prize herself but in this case I think she did the right thing for herself; it was a dead-end relationship once she opened her eyes.

luvlady345 wrote:LOL, being friends with Andi for Nikki seems to her real problem for some......

It's not a problem. It's a clue...for me.

Lucas15 wrote:

glazedover wrote:Also, unlike many here, I don't see JPG's behavior as loving. He was hot and cold. Very affectionate sometimes, belittling and withholding at other times. A very manipulative guy. I see Nikki as very naive and not self-reflective and also a little selfish. I don't see either of them as "blameless' but I grew to actively dislike JPG as I watched his behavior on CT. I see him as very self-absorbed and selfish, using physical affection as a manipulative tool and not backing it up with loving perception or intention. It really was all about him.

I think this explains the JPG I saw much better than anything I could have written. I get that some see him as affectionate and I guess he could be, but physical affection and perhaps intimacy was how he shut down conversations about anything cerebral with a woman. I found it not only manipulative but very sexist - he was not interested in listening to a woman's opinions or concerns and it was demeaning that he treated them as little more than a "make out" object. When he couldn't shut down conversations by starting to make out he would talk in circles that no one could actually follow and turn the tables into making the woman to blame. He did this with Sharleen, Nikki and I suspect Andi. And perhaps any other woman he's ever been with.

Acrunch wrote:As a Latin woman who's married to a Latin man and has many Latin men in her family and Latin acquaintance (Miami girl)...I never bought his language/ILU/Te Amo/culture BS.  He either was in love with her or he was not.  Saying the words, in English or Spanish wouldn't be difficult for him if he felt them...in whatever language.  IMO, he didn't...hence why he couldn't give her the assurances for a future she obviously needed.  Nikki, being in love, gave him time to hopefully get his feelings for her where hers were for him.  She made the mistake of thinking she could change him; make him love her.  As time past, IMO she just grew disillusioned and less and less hopeful and started as Dr. Jenn said, not trying so much to make him love her.  She probably hung on to the relationship longer than she should have because JP probably strung her along and being a girl in love, she bought it because it was easier to keep trying and believing than facing the hurt of losing him completely.  One of the most telling moments for me watching CT was when in a session with Dr. Jenn, she point blank asked him if he loved her.  She wanted a yes or no answer.  Instead of doing that, he beat around the bush, turned the situation around by acting the injured party for her suggesting he was fake and she ended up apologizing to him.  That's what I mean by stringing her along.  He's a manipulator in my opinion.   I think JPG might love her but I never got the impression he was IN love with her and never thought he really saw a future wife, mother of his children, in her either.  And that's what I believe Nikki needed and wanted to believe but finally realized it wasn't in the cards.

Another landmark post. I always felt JPG's "cultural" excuse was so much gobbledegook - a line of BS a guy might say to a woman to make her think he felt something that he didn't (for guys who play that game it's usually so they can get in the woman's bed). But I could never be certain (and probably neither could Nikki) until you posted this ^^^^^

I think there were several "telling moments" during the filming of CT. You described one of them. Another was when the human lie detector kept asking JPG "Do you love Nikki" and finally put him in a corner where he said "No". Another was when Dr. Jenn told Nikki "You have been trying so long to make JPG love you and once you've stopped trying, you're wondering if he's the right guy for you" And another was when Nikki challenged JPG to "Tell me you don't love me" (previously she was convinced he did and sooner or later would tell her he did. Put together I think Nikki "checked out" of the relationship during filming of CT. She gave in and went through the rest of filming to get through it and appear to support JPG for his sake - all along knowing she would break up with him. I think the gift of the ring bought JPG some time and she did the trip to Bali to support JPG - but all along knowing that she would soon break up with him. And finally she did. Nikki's no prize herself but in this case I think she did the right thing for herself; it was a dead-end relationship once she opened her eyes.

Love or hate either one, Nikki didn't go to Bali for JPG. Please, she wanted the free awesome trip. And she managed to hold off long enough to get awesome free World Series tickets.

JPG maybe a jerk, he doesn't bug me, but I can see what everyone else is say, but Nikki is a user. She got all the free crap she could before she finally couldn't pretend anymore. Nikki got 50k for CT, Nikki got a free trip to Bali, Nikki got free world series tickets. Nikki got plenty.

Sprite wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:LOL, being friends with Andi for Nikki seems to her real problem for some......

It's not a problem. It's a clue...for me.

OK...... It's just funny to me....

Sprite wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:LOL, being friends with Andi for Nikki seems to her real problem for some......

It's not a problem. It's a clue...for me.

A clue for me, too. :WAVEY:

Do we know that JP got the tickets for the World series or is that an assumption, just like how or why the trip came about?

luvlady345 wrote:Do we know that JP got the tickets for the World series or is that an assumption, just like how or why the trip came about?

The tickets came about because of her connection to JPG.  I don't know if he bought them or if she got them because of his connections.  The trip was free, as told by Dick.  I have not assumed anything about the trip except it was free as spoken by Dick.

BTW, Andi and Nikki being friends is perfectly fine.  I personally don't like Andi and truthfully, I am not a fan of the Nikki I saw on CT and that has nothing to do with JPG but her treatment of Deena and others in the house.

Again, if Nikki was unhappy, break up with the guy.  I am not saying that JPG gave Nikki everything that she wanted or needed.  I don't think he did.  They are not a good fit.  But just break up with him.  She obviously discussed her desire to do so with Dick, I assume she did with Andi because of Josh's comments about people like JPG not being welcome by him and Andi.  Again, cool you are unhappy talk to your friends.  But also do the mature grown up thing and break up with him.  

Why is expecting Nikki to break up instead of stringing this out too much?  I expect Nikki to break up for the sole reason that we don't have all the statements by friends of JPG being unhappy and wanting out.  So yes, Nikki should have done the breaking up.  And yes, I am assuming that Nikki kept delaying at least in part because the free perks were pretty awesome.

stuckinsc wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

glazedover wrote:Also, unlike many here, I don't see JPG's behavior as loving. He was hot and cold. Very affectionate sometimes, belittling and withholding at other times. A very manipulative guy. I see Nikki as very naive and not self-reflective and also a little selfish. I don't see either of them as "blameless' but I grew to actively dislike JPG as I watched his behavior on CT. I see him as very self-absorbed and selfish, using physical affection as a manipulative tool and not backing it up with loving perception or intention. It really was all about him.

I think this explains the JPG I saw much better than anything I could have written. I get that some see him as affectionate and I guess he could be, but physical affection and perhaps intimacy was how he shut down conversations about anything cerebral with a woman. I found it not only manipulative but very sexist - he was not interested in listening to a woman's opinions or concerns and it was demeaning that he treated them as little more than a "make out" object. When he couldn't shut down conversations by starting to make out he would talk in circles that no one could actually follow and turn the tables into making the woman to blame. He did this with Sharleen, Nikki and I suspect Andi. And perhaps any other woman he's ever been with.

Acrunch wrote:As a Latin woman who's married to a Latin man and has many Latin men in her family and Latin acquaintance (Miami girl)...I never bought his language/ILU/Te Amo/culture BS.  He either was in love with her or he was not.  Saying the words, in English or Spanish wouldn't be difficult for him if he felt them...in whatever language.  IMO, he didn't...hence why he couldn't give her the assurances for a future she obviously needed.  Nikki, being in love, gave him time to hopefully get his feelings for her where hers were for him.  She made the mistake of thinking she could change him; make him love her.  As time past, IMO she just grew disillusioned and less and less hopeful and started as Dr. Jenn said, not trying so much to make him love her.  She probably hung on to the relationship longer than she should have because JP probably strung her along and being a girl in love, she bought it because it was easier to keep trying and believing than facing the hurt of losing him completely.  One of the most telling moments for me watching CT was when in a session with Dr. Jenn, she point blank asked him if he loved her.  She wanted a yes or no answer.  Instead of doing that, he beat around the bush, turned the situation around by acting the injured party for her suggesting he was fake and she ended up apologizing to him.  That's what I mean by stringing her along.  He's a manipulator in my opinion.   I think JPG might love her but I never got the impression he was IN love with her and never thought he really saw a future wife, mother of his children, in her either.  And that's what I believe Nikki needed and wanted to believe but finally realized it wasn't in the cards.

Another landmark post. I always felt JPG's "cultural" excuse was so much gobbledegook - a line of BS a guy might say to a woman to make her think he felt something that he didn't (for guys who play that game it's usually so they can get in the woman's bed). But I could never be certain (and probably neither could Nikki) until you posted this ^^^^^

I think there were several "telling moments" during the filming of CT. You described one of them. Another was when the human lie detector kept asking JPG "Do you love Nikki" and finally put him in a corner where he said "No". Another was when Dr. Jenn told Nikki "You have been trying so long to make JPG love you and once you've stopped trying, you're wondering if he's the right guy for you" And another was when Nikki challenged JPG to "Tell me you don't love me" (previously she was convinced he did and sooner or later would tell her he did. Put together I think Nikki "checked out" of the relationship during filming of CT. She gave in and went through the rest of filming to get through it and appear to support JPG for his sake - all along knowing she would break up with him. I think the gift of the ring bought JPG some time and she did the trip to Bali to support JPG - but all along knowing that she would soon break up with him. And finally she did. Nikki's no prize herself but in this case I think she did the right thing for herself; it was a dead-end relationship once she opened her eyes.

Love or hate either one, Nikki didn't go to Bali for JPG.  Please, she wanted the free awesome trip.  And she managed to hold off long enough to get awesome free World Series tickets.  

JPG maybe a jerk, he doesn't bug me, but I can see what everyone else is say, but Nikki is a user.  She got all the free crap she could before she finally couldn't pretend anymore.  Nikki got 50k for CT, Nikki got a free trip to Bali, Nikki got free world series tickets.  Nikki got plenty.

^^^Yep (the bolded). She traded her time, privacy, and self-respect for an exotic trip and a down payment on her new house.

luvlady345 wrote:LOL, being friends with Andi for Nikki seems to her real problem for some......

Yep. I've noticed.