*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions #2

Hotmomma wrote:I must say by the EDIT..( what we have seen) Clare has seen JP up's n down the most..She knows his moods..I  think with Nikki he always seems happy go lucky..yes It's been easy!..

I think maybe he did " choose" Nikki but I get this feeling maybe he didn't propose..I think Nikki would expect one..sounds like they were talking on their LCD she was telling him that he need to let go..or something like that..

Last night was the first night that I thought that Nikki actually had an edge over Clare in terms of his reactions.
With Clare he seemed a bit different from what he was with her on her HTD. She seemed to be the one going in for the touches and caresses more. Perhpas I am wrong. He did however get fully into the making out act in the FD and that hot tub.

With Nikki I felt it was a combination of emotion and physical. It was the first time I thought that clear demarcation of F2/F3 = Physical and F1 = both.
Perhaps it was just the edited version that made me feel this way but I felt overall his connection with Nikki is stronger.

As I was watching the show it seemed that Clare was doing the talking asking the questions..with Nikki JP would engaged totally..

I think he and Nikki do have great conversations..

I think JP just wants it over! It is so apparent when he checks out with a girl..I haven't seen him do that with Nikki...

With Clare I think he enjoys the make out ..But I think he has pretty much check out far as seeing a future..jmo..

Re-watching Nikki's hometown, I have a few more observations...

I have to repeat that hilarious shot of cows peacefully grazing, followed by an abrupt edit-cut to a meat cleaver chopping up the flanks. I am DYING to know what the editors are up to here. Will Nikki chop up Juan and stick him in the fryer? You folks know how my mind wanders... now that Andi got the praying mantis feeding on the lizard during her interrogation of Juan.

Take a wif of this dialogue coming from Juan: "She takes me to Oklahoma Joe's Barbecue. I didn't even know what that was. The spicy barbecue sauce... Uh!" (followed by an onscreen "Uh".) "Barbecue ribs and chicken barbecue, fries with spicy barbecue sauce. It was amazing. I had a blast eating with Nikki. Ah man. I will get fat eating that barbecue every day. Oh yes." Next... we get a sign reading "Slaughterhouse Five" and Nikki saying "I thought you might like this". Gee! Is this his last supper? What are the editors implying here?!? Stop torturing me!

On a more comforting note: Daddy Tom says to Juan: "One of the things I will tell you about the Ferrell family is that when you sit down at dinner you become family." Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

Nikki's mascara must really irritate her. In her PI sessions, she blinks frequently.

No close-up shots of her and Juan's hands together, apart from his holding her on the mechanical bull. In previous episodes, there are often shots of her hands by themselves. In contrast, Renee and Clare have had hand-holding shots with Juan, the latter getting quite a lot of them. (Actually Renee is usually holding Juan's shoulder or arm but he isn't reciprocating much, although he has her hand firmly grasped in one shot of her hometown.) Does this suggest "disconnect" between Nikki and Juan or is it simply the editors playing games with us? Some have suggested that they may be hiding this relationship because she's a "surprise winner" at the end of this.

Tom says that it is just as important that Nikki "selects" Juan as it is that he selects her. Also Tom says to his daughter "I will always support you in whatever you do..." and "Whomever is lucky enough to have you is gonna be somebody I want that can stand the test of time." He says this in such a generalized tone as if to imply that, if she doesn't love Juan, it is OK. There will always be somebody else.

This also reminds me of her speech in episode #1 that she wants "forever" and not just a head-over heels love for two weeks. Although she did once say she sees "forever" with Juan, she sounded unsure in her delivery... as if trying to convince herself verbally. However, Nikki does tell her own mother instantly that she's in love with Juan with no hesitation. This must be the almighty power of the Reality TV bubble... all too often these contestants are caught up "in the moment" with their feelings.

The editing of Juan's sitdown with Tom is interesting. His compliment of Juan as somebody "with maturity" is spoken over Juan as if the editors also think so... at least at this stage of his "journey". Tom gets his own "understanding what a father is going through in this situation". When Tom says "there could potentially be hurt", he is shown... not Juan. Juan says Nikki's best trait is her honesty. The camera stays focused on Tom when he tells him not to propose if his heart isn't 100% there.

Andi's storyline may potentially echo Nikki's in that she said in a PI that she felt foolish wasting so much time this season thinking she had a chance with Juan and was especially upset about his never getting to know her. Nikki specifically asked Juan at Meet & Greet "What all do you want to know about me?" In New Zealand, Juan says "Do I ‘know’ Clare? Yeah, I ‘know’ her, but do I need to ‘know’ her more? Yeah, I need to ‘know’ more about her." and "I love that she didn’t bolt ‘cause I see a future here and I want to know more about her life.". The major challenge with the Nikki/Juan relationship is whether or not Juan puts the same amount of effort getting to know Nikki as he does Clare. Otherwise he will fail like he did with Andi.

Although some of their body language is a little "off" in the early part of the date, Juan makes up for it with a lot of kissing in front of her doorstep. This reminds me of the way Jillian kept making out with Reid in Philadelphia, making so many of us think he was her frontrunner. Something about her definitely attracts him. He likes touching her... if maybe not quite as much as Clare... it is still more than the other two getting hometowns. The kissing is punctuated by his "I've gotta go". Once the SUV starts its engine, he is instantly distracted from her. Maybe the whole "when we kiss, there is nothing else in the world" logic repeated season after season may apply to her, but I am not quite so sure with him.

Last line: "It didn't feel right to tell him that I love him... and I came so close to telling him, but I didn't. I don't know why. I want him to know how I feel about him..." Well... she does the next episode (after "hoping to be around next week"), so maybe it doesn't matter.

It is surprising how little Juan says in PI sessions about this date. Maybe he made up for it in his blog. Nikki seems to be doing 90% of the narrating. I tallied his non slaughterhouse-oriented lines up as follows...
-My relationship with Nikki has been progressing a lot since our 1 on 1 date. She is very special. Every time I am with her, I feel great, happy and we just get along so well that I love it.
-I've never done bull riding before obviously. It's something she likes to do and why not? I was a little scared. Honestly, I was  uuuuhh... I was toughing it up. But I did my best to hold on to that bull and not fall.

nd4reality wrote:

Hotmomma wrote:I must say by the EDIT..( what we have seen) Clare has seen JP up's n down the most..She knows his moods..I  think with Nikki he always seems happy go lucky..yes It's been easy!..

I think maybe he did " choose" Nikki but I get this feeling maybe he didn't propose..I think Nikki would expect one..sounds like they were talking on their LCD she was telling him that he need to let go..or something like that..

Last night was the first night that I thought that Nikki actually had an edge over Clare in terms of his reactions.
With Clare he seemed a bit different from what he was with her on her HTD. She seemed to be the one going in for the touches and caresses more. Perhpas I am wrong. He did however get fully into the making out act in the FD and that hot tub.

With Nikki I felt it was a combination of emotion and physical. It was the first time I thought that clear demarcation of F2/F3 = Physical and F1 = both.
Perhaps it was just the edited version that made me feel this way but I felt overall his connection with Nikki is stronger.

nd, I agree very much with the bolded. Juan did seem more checked out with Clare than I've seen before. Not sure exactly what that means. I think he knows Clare is a "sure thing." Maybe it was just that he hadn't recouped from the travel to St. Lucia. Maybe the seriousness of this situation is setting in. Maybe he was still feeling bad about hurting Renee. Maybe he felt sad about leaving Camila. Or maybe, he is losing his interest in Clare.   

With Nikki, I don't think he has that confidence so he continues to engage more..though I did find his reaction to Nikki telling him that she loved him to be odd. Maybe I need to watch it again, but I don't recall there being that big of a visceral reaction. When he watched Clare's video declaration of love, you could see him react with his eyes.

Going back to the old standby measures, who does Juan seem to be chasing more? I would say Nikki now. Who has the bigger obstacle to overcome? I still think Clare. Has either person's storyline stalled? Not sure..

Litta123 wrote:

nd, I agree very much with the bolded. Juan did seem more checked out with Clare than I've seen before. Not sure exactly what that means. I think he knows Clare is a "sure thing." Maybe it was just that he hadn't recouped from the travel to St. Lucia. Maybe the seriousness of this situation is setting in. Maybe he was still feeling bad about hurting Renee. Maybe he felt sad about leaving Camila. Or maybe, he is losing his interest in Clare.   

With Nikki, I don't think he has that confidence so he continues to engage more..though I did find his reaction to Nikki telling him that she loved him to be odd. Maybe I need to watch it again, but I don't recall there being that big of a visceral reaction. When he watched Clare's video declaration of love, you could see him react with his eyes.

Going back to the old standby measures, who does Juan seem to be chasing more? I would say Nikki now. Who has the bigger obstacle to overcome? I still think Clare. Has either person's storyline stalled? Not sure..

Here is what he said about that in his blog today:

Dinner with Nikki was so easy, and I loved talking to her. She decided to spend the night with me, but before that, she dropped the “I love you.” I wasn't really expecting that, and you could see it by my reaction. As my feelings for her are not there yet, I wanted to keep quiet rather than saying something that she may have taken the wrong way. I was very pleased with my night with Nikki. I really got to know her really well.

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"She argued that I had no emotions and that I didn't even know her, but I have to say that I know her as much as she knew me, and in this process, people get to know each other in only the short amount of time we have together. Does it really matter what her religion is? What color she likes? If religion was very important to one of the girls, I believe she would have told me. In Andi's case, she didn't, so I guess it was not that important to her."

Well articulated by him. She seemed more interest in moaning about the dates and kissing him. The onus was on her to discuss what she deemed important. Nikki did that and so did Clare

see2love wrote:"She argued that I had no emotions and that I didn't even know her, but I have to say that I know her as much as she knew me, and in this process, people get to know each other in only the short amount of time we have together. Does it really matter what her religion is? What color she likes? If religion was very important to one of the girls, I believe she would have told me. In Andi's case, she didn't, so I guess it was not that important to her."

Well articulated by him. She seemed more interest in moaning about the dates and kissing him. The onus was on her to discuss what she deemed important. Nikki did that and so did Clare

Well put.

see2love wrote:"She argued that I had no emotions and that I didn't even know her, but I have to say that I know her as much as she knew me, and in this process, people get to know each other in only the short amount of time we have together. Does it really matter what her religion is? What color she likes? If religion was very important to one of the girls, I believe she would have told me. In Andi's case, she didn't, so I guess it was not that important to her."

Well articulated by him. She seemed more interest in moaning about the dates and kissing him. The onus was on her to discuss what she deemed important. Nikki did that and so did Clare

Exactly! I wonder if it finally dawned on Andi that he just wasn't all that into her and - along with TPTB prodding her - that's why she went on the attack. Bitter much?

Litta123 wrote:

nd4reality wrote:

Hotmomma wrote:I must say by the EDIT..( what we have seen) Clare has seen JP up's n down the most..She knows his moods..I  think with Nikki he always seems happy go lucky..yes It's been easy!..

I think maybe he did " choose" Nikki but I get this feeling maybe he didn't propose..I think Nikki would expect one..sounds like they were talking on their LCD she was telling him that he need to let go..or something like that..

Last night was the first night that I thought that Nikki actually had an edge over Clare in terms of his reactions.
With Clare he seemed a bit different from what he was with her on her HTD. She seemed to be the one going in for the touches and caresses more. Perhpas I am wrong. He did however get fully into the making out act in the FD and that hot tub.

With Nikki I felt it was a combination of emotion and physical. It was the first time I thought that clear demarcation of F2/F3 = Physical and F1 = both.
Perhaps it was just the edited version that made me feel this way but I felt overall his connection with Nikki is stronger.

nd, I agree very much with the bolded. Juan did seem more checked out with Clare than I've seen before. Not sure exactly what that means. I think he knows Clare is a "sure thing." Maybe it was just that he hadn't recouped from the travel to St. Lucia. Maybe the seriousness of this situation is setting in. Maybe he was still feeling bad about hurting Renee. Maybe he felt sad about leaving Camila. Or maybe, he is losing his interest in Clare.   

With Nikki, I don't think he has that confidence so he continues to engage more..though I did find his reaction to Nikki telling him that she loved him to be odd. Maybe I need to watch it again, but I don't recall there being that big of a visceral reaction. When he watched Clare's video declaration of love, you could see him react with his eyes.

Going back to the old standby measures, who does Juan seem to be chasing more? I would say Nikki now. Who has the bigger obstacle to overcome? I still think Clare. Has either person's storyline stalled? Not sure..

Here is my opinion on this - I think he has been chasing Nikki more than Clare. I think Clare has been chasing him.
I honestly don't see any obstacles for the girls at the FD stage. Both seem all in and are happy with what they have discovered about him. No doubts.
Sorry - Clare did say that since Nikki is still in the mix she would view JP based on his choice !!! Watch out JP (if he chooses Nikki or not).

This season has lost me. At this point, I'm still watching....just because. It is the one season where I have been the most ambivalent about the cast and season as a whole. I truly do not enjoy it when anyone is edited to fit a particular role or when the producers repeatedly tell a single story about a cast in order to shape the viewers opinion about him/her. I am particularly annoyed by the fact that JP is being portrayed in the worst light possible, and we have to wade through all his "faults" to see the good in him. I could be wrong but I also sense that some of these girls feel and talk as if they are superior to him. :greenman: 

julychild wrote:This season has lost me. At this point, I'm still watching....just because. It is the one season where I have been the most ambivalent about the cast and season as a whole. I truly do not enjoy it when anyone is edited to fit a particular role or when the producers repeatedly tell a single story about a cast in order to shape the viewers opinion about him/her. I am particularly annoyed by the fact that JP is being portrayed in the worst light possible, and we have to wade through all his "faults" to see the good in him. I could be wrong but I also sense that some of these girls feel and talk as if they are superior to him. :greenman: 

  
  

ITA.

My heart breaks for JP. Not just the girls on the show but so many viewers and ex-cast members also.

#TeamJaunPablo

Mirzam wrote:

Litta123 wrote:

nd, I agree very much with the bolded. Juan did seem more checked out with Clare than I've seen before. Not sure exactly what that means. I think he knows Clare is a "sure thing." Maybe it was just that he hadn't recouped from the travel to St. Lucia. Maybe the seriousness of this situation is setting in. Maybe he was still feeling bad about hurting Renee. Maybe he felt sad about leaving Camila. Or maybe, he is losing his interest in Clare.   

With Nikki, I don't think he has that confidence so he continues to engage more..though I did find his reaction to Nikki telling him that she loved him to be odd. Maybe I need to watch it again, but I don't recall there being that big of a visceral reaction. When he watched Clare's video declaration of love, you could see him react with his eyes.

Going back to the old standby measures, who does Juan seem to be chasing more? I would say Nikki now. Who has the bigger obstacle to overcome? I still think Clare. Has either person's storyline stalled? Not sure..

Here is what he said about that in his blog today:

Dinner with Nikki was so easy, and I loved talking to her. She decided to spend the night with me, but before that, she dropped the “I love you.” I wasn't really expecting that, and you could see it by my reaction. As my feelings for her are not there yet, I wanted to keep quiet rather than saying something that she may have taken the wrong way. I was very pleased with my night with Nikki. I really got to know her really well.

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i just found the bolded line quite odd. i wonder, Is it normal to state that about your F1? (assuming Nikki is)