*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions #2

JBF wrote:Love... lust... whatever. At least Nurse Nikki is on board in case of any accidents down the road.

JBF…..I compared what Juan said about each FD, the only one that he couldn't talk about is Nikki because she was last and it moved into the whole Andi thing.  But here is what he said Clare's FD just before Andi's FD was starting. 

JP says about Clare's FD -
VO my sleep over with Clare was great, laying in bed, talking and talking and cuddling. I was so happy WE decided to spend the night together, it's the best time to get to know somebody

JP says about Andi's FD - 
VO waking up this morning I am so happy about Andi.  We had a great night together, 
PI we freaking talked and laughed of hours…..hours  
VO we just get along very well, our chemistry, our connection what we have I didn't know it would be this good. I love that. I love her smile She's cute  
PI her cheeks (pinching his cheeks) She's cute
VO Andi could be the one, I like the way she is, she's cute and I like it, I like it, I am happy

Then before Nikki's date in a VO:
My two overnight dates were great. No complaints……I got to see Clare in a bikini all day (growls) every time I get to hang out with Andi it gets better and better

There wasn't commentary about Nikki's FD even before the deliberation with Chris…so we don't know if he did say something and some of what was put in either VO comments to Clare or Andi could have been about Nikki but we just don't know.   but editing in these comments it drives their story forward ….. the long commentary from JP about Andi (VO) was to lead up to the breakup.  

But I was surprise that JP mentioned with Clare the (we) again about decided to go to the fantasy suite.  So that tells me that we didn't get to see the whole conversation….because he didn't say she….I had it on closed caption

BACHRISTINE wrote:ITA with see2love. There really is NO love story with Clare no matter how you dice and splice screen caps, voice overs etc. The only mystery/suspense left is whether Nikki gets a proposal at the FRC or not. JP is more natural, and sweeter, more attentive, passionate with Nikki - there's just no comparison.

 :alltens:  

The big argument pushed by the Nikki for F1 side is that much of her material is cut from the show to make her hidden. I used to think it was a Big Deal when a contestant was hidden.... only to find out later that "hidden" may mean there wasn't a lot to show in the first place... or. to put it more appropriately, what happened with that hidden contestant couldn't compare to what was happening with F1. Not saying this is the case with Nikki, but... because I was burned in the past rooting for the wrong contestant THIS way... I simply try to determine if an OVER-exposed candidate (i.e. Clare) is over-exposed for a reason.

JBF wrote:The big argument pushed by the Nikki for F1 side is that much of her material is cut from the show to make her hidden. I used to think it was a Big Deal when a contestant was hidden.... only to find out later that "hidden" may mean there wasn't a lot to show in the first place... or. to put it more appropriately, what happened with that hidden contestant couldn't compare to what was happening with F1. Not saying this is the case with Nikki, but... because I was burned in the past rooting for the wrong contestant THIS way... I simply try to determine if an OVER-exposed candidate (i.e. Clare) is over-exposed for a reason.

I see you thoughts….but this season really reminds me of Brad 2.0 (Chantel vs. Emily)…..I liked Brad with Chantel and she was over the top chemistry and physical. But with Emily I always didn't see the little things.  Even Emily saw the on fire chemistry with Chantel…she had a hard time of it…..I always thought they hide stuff with Brad and Emily……but I just enjoy the whole sleuthing and trying to figure out when, where, who, how etc. from screen caps, etc.   I keep thinking that yes JP likes surprises and he is sneaky and CH giving him a hard time that he can't hide his feelings (no poker face) maybe he is really trying to keep the season a surprise and we just don't know what the true message of the social media, post season comments etc is…I just want to figure out the story and what tptb is trying to tell us….right know I see two books at once and that is frustrating.

Most of the Bachelors don't pick their chemistry gal, in fact the only exceptions were Ben & Jake. The edit in those seasons were all wonky - Ben's because he only ever wanted one of the women and Jake who seemed to have a thing for Ali before she left but really seemed to want to help his tv career & for whatever reason picked Vienna. Both women were or were edited to be the ones most disliked by nearly everyone. The edit was bad for them and bad for the leads.

This season seems to be more like previous edits. I'm most reminded of Andy's season with Clare being Bevin and Nikki being Tessa. Both Nikki & Tessa were very cautious going in. A lot of people were sure Andy was going to pick Bevin because of the chemistry and of course the "I love you". Bevin & Clare also share a bit of the drama queen syndrome and had some problem with some of the women but didn't care.

They do this because it's most likely to be surprising to the viewer. They don't care at all about the feelings of the f1 so that shouldn't factor in when deciding who will be picked imo.

albean99 wrote:Most of the Bachelors don't pick their chemistry gal, in fact the only exceptions were Ben & Jake. The edit in those seasons were all wonky - Ben's because he only ever wanted one of the women and Jake who seemed to have a thing for Ali before she left but really seemed to want to help his tv career & for whatever reason picked Vienna. Both women were or were edited to be the ones most disliked by nearly everyone. The edit was bad for them and bad for the leads.

This season seems to be more like previous edits. I'm most reminded of Andy's season with Clare being Bevin and Nikki being Tessa. Both Nikki & Tessa were very cautious going in. A lot of people were sure Andy was going to pick Bevin because of the chemistry and of course the "I love you". Bevin & Clare also share a bit of the drama queen syndrome and had some problem with some of the women but didn't care.

They do this because it's most likely to be surprising to the viewer. They don't care at all about the feelings of the f1 so that shouldn't factor in when deciding who will be picked imo.

I see both story lines this season.   I have to admit that Andy's season was the one season I loved and was a huge Tessa fan.  I don't see the similarities at all….Tessa yes hesitate very and a lot of reassuring from Andy….I don't see Nikki hesitate to the process at all.  I see her confident to a fault …. maybe she had a good reason to be so confident I don't know….Bevin was all chemistry…..so that season was a total chemistry vs. emotional…..but I don't it see that way this season. at all…..JMO

Also tptb have changed in the past few years.  There are different editors etc.  So because I was responding to JBF….I agree with the hidden edit isn't a sure thing…..plus when you have lead that isn't communicating or giving them anything to work with except "it's okay" "she's cute", "i like her", "she's sexy", "we have a very good time" they have to show the story visually.  Plus I think JP is very much a latino man and shows his feelings with touch…..because he can't communicate it because of the language barrier and the producers/CH telling him that he has no poker face.

^^ IMO, Tessa, while cautious, was one of the most genuine girls ever to come from the show. Her feelings radiated from her. She was honest towards Andy, herself AND the viewers....
The more Nikki tries to make us believe that she is in love with JP, the more forced and disingenuous she becomes. Sure people can say that "she is just cautious", "not overly expressive"  or that "she doesn't like PDA", it won't make it true though. Especially if there is evidence that she did not mind all those things mentioned above in the past.
Who knows, maybe Ryan is going to tell a couple of stories about "Miss No-Bullshit" once this is all over and done with.  

The 2 girls who had the most problems among the other contestants ended up as F2. One had to get the "good" edit, the other the "bad" edit. IMO, Nikki was just as big of a "brat" and source of drama as Clare. Neither of the 2 were saints during filming, but for the sake of JP, I genuinely hope he chose Clare.
The sad thing is that Nikki was initially one of my big favorites.

Also, I saw people talking about how JP and Nikki come from similar, wealthier background and that Clare wouldn't stand a chance as an ideal partner because of her middle-class background. Well, the lovely home Nikki's HTD was filmed in wasn't actually the Ferrel residence...

4health wrote:

JBF wrote:The big argument pushed by the Nikki for F1 side is that much of her material is cut from the show to make her hidden. I used to think it was a Big Deal when a contestant was hidden.... only to find out later that "hidden" may mean there wasn't a lot to show in the first place... or. to put it more appropriately, what happened with that hidden contestant couldn't compare to what was happening with F1. Not saying this is the case with Nikki, but... because I was burned in the past rooting for the wrong contestant THIS way... I simply try to determine if an OVER-exposed candidate (i.e. Clare) is over-exposed for a reason.

I see you thoughts….but this season really reminds me of Brad 2.0 (Chantel vs. Emily)…..I liked Brad with Chantel and she was over the top chemistry and physical. But with Emily I always didn't see the little things.  Even Emily saw the on fire chemistry with Chantel…she had a hard time of it…..I always thought they hide stuff with Brad and Emily……but I just enjoy the whole sleuthing and trying to figure out when, where, who, how etc. from screen caps, etc.   I keep thinking that yes JP likes surprises and he is sneaky and CH giving him a hard time that he can't hide his feelings (no poker face) maybe he is really trying to keep the season a surprise and we just don't know what the true message of the social media, post season comments etc is…I just want to figure out the story and what tptb is trying to tell us….right know I see two books at once and that is frustrating.

What was done in the past was make lists for each contestant based on all kinds of factors... editing patterns, twitter activity post-show, the "hidden vs. exposed" factor both on the show and off. Then readers here can determine for themselves by reading each list.

For example, Ocean Romp (Ocean Gate) has been used both as pro-Clare (he has yet to get that physical with anybody else) and against-Clare (the baffling interview she gave that suggested questions weren't answered).

In terms of storyline, we have the following... in "bare bones" and removing all of the body language (and Juan's constant lustful commentary of Clare)...

Nikki:

Her goal/challenge:
"I do not want to SETTLE. I don't settle my professional life. I don't want to settle my love life, that's for sure. I want that head-over-heels-in-love-can't get enough feeling. I don't want that feeling in two weeks in the beginning. I want that feeling forever."

Negative traits:
I don't need to list them. Just a sampling are discussed here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Her Defense:
"Everyone's afraid to hurt someone's feelings, everyone's afraid to step on someone's toes. In reality, there are things that I think about... that person may not want to hear it."

Obstacles:
Has a fear of heartbreak which is why she says she's shy (i.e. soccer date conversation). Juan wants her to get over her fears (i.e. Vietnam cave). Juan's fear of "hurting people" is discussed with her on one group date. This is not a fear that Nikki has (see above). Also not her friend Andi, who chewed Juan out after the fantasy date.

Criticism of the other:
Considers Clare too "crazy" for Juan, since she thinks she can't share his love with Camilla. Also told Clare, point blank, that they will never be friends. She was especially upset when Clare suggested her best friend Andi got the rose for "reassurance" in Miami. She also thinks Clare's family is crazy since she is crazy.

Hometown themes:
Tom told Juan that if his heart isn't there, not to ask Nikki to marry him. Tom also said to both Juan and his daughter individually that whatever decison Nikki makes (marriage to Juan, marriage to somebody else, joining the Olympics), he will support her whole heatedly. Tom wants Nikki to have somebody who will stand the test of time. Most important: Nicki must select Juan as equally as he would select her.

******

Clare:

Her goal/challenge:
"A man who can love his daughter that much, I think, he can love me that much."

Negative traits:
She is accused of being possessive of Juan. Had a hissy fit in her room in episode #3, when not getting reassurance from him. Jumps to conclusions a bit too fast at times. Many ladies were upset that he was giving her too much attention in Vietnam.

Her Defense:
"I am just going to be Clare regardless of what anybody thinks."

Obstacles:
She's the Ice Princess he hopes to melt. Juan wants her to open up, but doesn't like making her cry. He was concerned about their ocean romp (confusing everybody later in her media interview), based on the example set for his daughter and being fair with the other ladies. She got upset because she thought it was a "mutual feeling", but he reassured her of that question in a second sitdown in Vietnam pre-RC. In New Zealand, they discussed boundaries regarding Camilla.

Criticism of the other:
Told Nikki to her face in Korea that she is one way with the girls and a different way with Juan. Considers Nikki too negative... and possibly not ready for marriage, although we are not seeing what Clare is seeing there... at least not yet.

Hometown themes:
Juan tells her family that the deceased father is somebody whom he wants to represent for Camilla. He also hopes the love of his life will look up to him the same way as Clare looks up to her father. We also learn that Clare's parents got engaged in a very short time (three weeks). The conflict with Laura shows that you must accept a family regardless.

pbmax wrote:I think it will be nice after the finale to go back and discuss all the clues and what we think is clues. To maybe learn for future purposes. Everything will be clear on March 10. We will know what was true and what was not.

I really think we should.

Since I am on no one's camp I can appreciate both sides of the argument though I tend to disagree more with some of the things folks are "seeing" with Clare, I don't necessarily think that everything the pro-Nikki folks are posting here are correct either. So I'm having plenty of fun reading.

Count me in to this exercise.

chloep wrote:^^ IMO, Tessa, while cautious, was one of the most genuine girls ever to come from the show. Her feelings radiated from her. She was honest towards Andy, herself AND the viewers....
The more Nikki tries to make us believe that she is in love with JP, the more forced and disingenuous she becomes. Sure people can say that "she is just cautious", "not overly expressive"  or that "she doesn't like PDA", it won't make it true though. Especially if there is evidence that she did not mind all those things mentioned above in the past.
Who knows, maybe Ryan is going to tell a couple of stories about "Miss No-Bullshit" once this is all over and done with.  

The 2 girls who had the most problems among the other contestants ended up as F2. One had to get the "good" edit, the other the "bad" edit. IMO, Nikki was just as big of a "brat" and source of drama as Clare. Neither of the 2 were saints during filming, but for the sake of JP, I genuinely hope he chose Clare.
The sad thing is that Nikki was initially one of my big favorites.

Also, I saw people talking about how JP and Nikki come from similar, wealthier background and that Clare wouldn't stand a chance as an ideal partner because of her middle-class background. Well, the lovely home Nikki's HTD was filmed in wasn't actually the Ferrel residence…

 chloep….I am on the same page as you…..how do you know that it wasn't Ferrel residence.  Plz share..

^^
1) Google/Whitepage/GoogleEarth/Googlemaps
2) Nikki's pre-Bachelor photos were public for a very short period of time and she had a pic of her whole family from the 2013 4th of July celebration, which was taken in front of their house, up on her FB. And it was 100% their house because she even mentioned the house being theirs......So either her parents moved away while she was filming the Bachelor or her HTD did not take place at her parents house. (and I somehow doubt it was her brother's place)
Filming the night portion of the HTDs at somebody else's place is not uncommon at all, especially if the family is really big and the crew needs more place to set up all their equipment, I just thought I'd mention that what we've seen on TV is not necessary the whole truth. (They are pretty well to do people though, but probably aren't much wealthier than the Crawley's)