*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions #2

You will notice it with others in past seasons. Something is always a little "off" by fantasy date time. We haven't figured it all out yet. I suspected that some of Chris' talk was coached by the handlers as material for a skeptical Nate Hartsock to see on screen. Just a wild guess. Some of his comments about how he views Des as a potential wife, for example, resemble Clare insisting she wants to have babies with Juan. As Sharleen stated, she was not the type who wanted kids "like, yesterday" and Juan admired her honesty about it.

LibbyBell wrote:I posted in the FD thread but also feel it would go well in this thread...


I re-watched the FD episode earlier today and I had some thoughts to share and hopefully get some feedback

I felt that I saw a very specific change in the way Juan Pablo was interacting with all the girls and the way that they were interacting with him. It makes me wonder if TPTB had a hand in it. I know, imagine that; they would never try to sway the participants! Let me also add that I am unspoiled—I haven’t read the spoilers, just the postings in the non-spoiler threads. I’ve also tried to remain “favorite free”…until this episode. Earlier in the season if I had to pick someone I was rooting for I would have said Andi but I had seen, off and on, a little between Juan Pablo and Nikki but she just seemed way too skeptical. Clare has just been too blatant. After this episode, I totally see it with Nikki.  Here are some of my thoughts… (but, please be gentle!  :Biggrin:  I’m a sensitive soul!)

Clare has been reading JBF’s description of her because I definitely saw her inner “sex kitten” come out. By this I mean I saw a lot of affectations:  hair swinging,, lip pouting, eye dashing, shoulder movement all trying to be very seductive. Clare also strikes me as very scripted.  With Andi, I saw her aggressive, questioning and analytical side come out.  This is where I think TPTB were trying to stir the pot.  Knowing them, I could see them giving both Clare and Andi directions in an effort to see who could be the next bachelorette; hence their overacting throughout this episode. Sorry—my opinion only.

With Nikki, she seems more natural and less scripted than Clare and Andi. She still seems a little guarded and skeptical but I think with this situation, that is wise. When she finally told Juan Pablo that she loved him and said “but, I think you knew that”, he kind of leaned forward and then said “No, no, I didn’t know that…I knew you liked me, knew you liked me but, I don’t know”. Then you see him swallow, do his hands in front of his face and although it is really too dark and not a good angle to view his face I think he is eluding to the fact that he is getting teary-eyed and emotional and then says “I don’t know what to say” and then he leans in for a kiss and the music swells. Someone else will have to say whether it is “the music” that signifies something important. To me, I think it is.

During the CH’s sit down, I agree with some that have said that TPTB were frustrated with Juan Pablo in that he did not let them in on what he was thinking. I think he really held his cards close to the vest and this is different from most other leads. With Andi’s confrontation, it felt very manufactured—not that those weren’t her feelings but, I think that it was producer driven for her to keep it going and push the envelope in keeping the pressure on; as if the direction was “he’s made you cry—now go in and really make HIM cry”.  I am TERRIBLY concerned for Andi in her season….I’m afraid that it is going to bite her big time!

At the RC, I thought Juan Pablo was as gracious as he could be letting Clare and Nikki know about Andi. Nikki said that she understood that Andi questioned her feelings and that it was ok—she (Nikki)is in a different place.

So, to sum it all up: I think the relationship I see with Clare and Juan Pablo is more “scripted”. I do see him kissing her and whispering and everything else but I can’t get past it feeling manufactured. IMO, Juan Pablo and Nikki’s relationship is much more relaxed and comfortable. I think they have a very sweet relationship. I hope that if she is F1 they make it and aren’t split as I have heard some speculate.

Great post LibbyBell.     

 thanks 2observe!

For those who might be struggling to see the visuals on account of too much confidence Nikki is F1... a print-out of the dialogue.

I understand that this is one of several scenes intruding on the Great Juan & Nikki Love Story. So sorry to disrupt everybody’s mojo.

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Juan: Cheers to this entire adventure... for deciding to spend this night with me and definite(ly) tomorrow we'll wake up and we will know about each other, I think, a lot more. Cheers (cheers)
Ay... Clare. Hmmmm... (kiss)
Clare: You know what? (hand on his face, giggling a bit)
Juan (constantly touching her): You're so cute. You ARE so cute.
Clare (looking away): I am happy to be here and to be spending this time with you.
Juan (still touching her): Me too. I'm happy you're here.
Clare: Yeah. (She smiles, he smiles)
Juan: You are thinking a lot... why are you thinking so much? (she almost giggles, jerk in moement indicating a splice in edit)
Clare: Honestly?
Juan: Uh hmmm? (She gives the pouty flirtatious look) Honestly. (rubs her face)
Clare: I'm just, like, loving... (eyes look up) falling in love with you. (Juan stares at her) ... and (Clare covers her face)
Juan: ... and what? Come here (lunges for a kiss) It's OK. (Thankyou) What?. (Constant touch nonstop)
Clare: I am. (more kissing)
Juan: You're so cute.
Clare: And I know that... (Uh hmm?)... you don't have to say anything back right now (she almost looses herself here) It's like...
Juan (brushing his face all hot): No?
Clare (nervous laughter): It's like...
Juan (struggling to control himself): Hah huh. (instant kiss) Mula.
Clare (after an edit splice, stroking his hair): But everything has been from my heart and everything has been honest with me... ad it wouldn't be doing any good if I just kept it to myself how I feel.
Juan: Thank you. (more kissing) You're so cute. (kissing) You can tell me anything you want. (kissing)
Clare: Yeah?
Juan: Hm hmmm. (constantly stroking her) Because I remember one day, you and me were in the jacuzzi and you were telling me that this here (pointing below her neck) was so ice... a big block of ice. (Close-up of his hand on her waist)
Clare: You melted me... and every time ever since you put the bandana on me and say 'trust me' andI said 'what are we doing-what are we doing'
Juan:.. a hundred times...
Clare: and you said just trust me. (Hmmm) You did. I did.
Juan: And you did... and you do. You're trusting me right now, here.
Clare: Yeah. (voice-over/PI) This is perfect. I don’t want to lose him. I don’t want to lose these feelings. I just want them to get stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger. He’s not jus “next step”. He’s that man that I want to have babies with and I want to get married to… and I’ve never felt that about a man before.
Clare to Juan: It is crazy that we started out in a hot-tub.
Juan: You know that hot-tub was nice.
Clare VO: Possibly being a week away from being engaged is crazy to think that I’ve come all this way and now… it’s almost here. That’s like dream come true stuff right there.
(Cue another shot of the ocean… echoes of Vietnam)

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During the night, we had a nice chat and I loved when she talked about how important my daughter was for me. She wasn't sure whether or not to accept a night in the fantasy suite. After talking, she agreed to spend the night together and I was glad she did.

Oooooooohhhh I guess I have to do one for The Nurse too since she is probably barking about the above scene “That’s so stupid”.

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Nikki VO: I feel nervous and excited because I’m in love with Juan Pablo but I haven’t told him.
Nikki PI (blink blink): I have to tell Juan Pablo how I feel about him tonight because, if I were to go home (blin blink) and didn’t tell him (blink blink) how I felt, I know I would have regretted it.
Juan (doing the “nosey” thing with Eskimo Nikki): Hmmm? (after she shrugs, he puts his arms around her and kisses) Thankyou. (Finger to the chin) What are you thinking?
Nikki (looking away like Clare did): I just, like…I dunno.
Juan (briefly looking down then back at her): Hmmm
Nikki (briefly rubbing his shoulder): I mean… this means a lot to me, like, being here… and I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t (Juan nods as he looks down) feel the way I do.
Juan (looking back at her): How c…
Nikki: Um. And… iloveyou. (Juan’s eyebrow is raised) And I think you probably already know that, but… it’s taken a lot for me to say it.
Juan: Mmmmm. You really know it? (She nods) You like me? I knew you liked me. (Garbled talk that the Eagle Ears will probably decipher better than I can.)
Juan does his finger wave in front of his face: And you want to stay? (Kiss) I like you. I like you. (Cue slushy music)
Nikki VO (over more kissing): It feels really good to tell Juan Pablo how I feel and I feels like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. I feel awesome right now and I don’t want this night to end. I don’t want the sun to come up in the morning. I want this night and this moment to last (blink blink) for forever.
Juan to Nikki (all grabled but the Eagle Ears will sort it out): Oooh-and-a-haff.
Nikki: It did.
Juan: In a second and a half.
Nikki: It did.
Juan VO: I love kissing Nikki. She’s a good kisser. I can’t wait to learn more about Nikki. I can’t wait… and my intentions are for her to see the real me. (Lights out. Can’t see anything now.)

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She decided to spend the night with me, but before that, she dropped the “I love you.” I wasn't really expecting that, and you could see it by my reaction. As my feelings for her are not there yet, I wanted to keep quiet rather than saying something that she may have taken the wrong way. I was very pleased with my night with Nikki. I really got to know her really well.

JBF wrote:For those who might be struggling to see the visuals on account of too much confidence Nikki is F1... a print-out of the dialogue.

I understand that this is one of several scenes intruding on the Great Juan & Nikki Love Story. So sorry to disrupt everybody’s mojo.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Juan: Cheers to this entire adventure... for deciding to spend this night with me and definite(ly) tomorrow we'll wake up and we will know about each other, I think, a lot more. Cheers (cheers)
Ay... Clare. Hmmmm... (kiss)
Clare: You know what? (hand on his face, giggling a bit)
Juan (constantly touching her): You're so cute. You ARE so cute.
Clare (looking away): I am happy to be here and to be spending this time with you.
Juan (still touching her): Me too. I'm happy you're here.
Clare: Yeah. (She smiles, he smiles)
Juan: You are thinking a lot... why are you thinking so much? (she almost giggles, jerk in moement indicating a splice in edit)
Clare: Honestly?
Juan: Uh hmmm? (She gives the pouty flirtatious look) Honestly. (rubs her face)
Clare: I'm just, like, loving... (eyes look up) falling in love with you. (Juan stares at her) ... and (Clare covers her face)
Juan: ... and what? Come here (lunges for a kiss) It's OK. (Thankyou) What?. (Constant touch nonstop)
Clare: I am. (more kissing)
Juan: You're so cute.
Clare: And I know that... (Uh hmm?)... you don't have to say anything back right now (she almost looses herself here) It's like...
Juan (brushing his face all hot): No?
Clare (nervous laughter): It's like...
Juan (struggling to control himself): Hah huh. (instant kiss) Mula.
Clare (after an edit splice, stroking his hair): But everything has been from my heart and everything has been honest with me... ad it wouldn't be doing any good if I just kept it to myself how I feel.
Juan: Thank you. (more kissing) You're so cute. (kissing) You can tell me anything you want. (kissing)
Clare: Yeah?
Juan: Hm hmmm. (constantly stroking her) Because I remember one day, you and me were in the jacuzzi and you were telling me that this here (pointing below her neck) was so ice... a big block of ice. (Close-up of his hand on her waist)
Clare: You melted me... and every time ever since you put the bandana on me and say 'trust me' andI said 'what are we doing-what are we doing'
Juan:.. a hundred times...
Clare: and you said just trust me. (Hmmm) You did. I did.
Juan: And you did... and you do. You're trusting me right now, here.
Clare: Yeah. (voice-over/PI) This is perfect. I don’t want to lose him. I don’t want to lose these feelings. I just want them to get stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger. He’s not jus “next step”. He’s that man that I want to have babies with and I want to get married to… and I’ve never felt that about a man before.
Clare to Juan: It is crazy that we started out in a hot-tub.
Juan: You know that hot-tub was nice.
Clare VO: Possibly being a week away from being engaged is crazy to think that I’ve come all this way and now… it’s almost here. That’s like dream come true stuff right there.
(Cue another shot of the ocean… echoes of Vietnam)

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During the night, we had a nice chat and I loved when she talked about how important my daughter was for me. She wasn't sure whether or not to accept a night in the fantasy suite. After talking, she agreed to spend the night together and I was glad she did.

Oooooooohhhh I guess I have to do one for The Nurse too since she is probably barking about the above scene “That’s so stupid”.

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Nikki VO: I feel nervous and excited because I’m in love with Juan Pablo but I haven’t told him.
Nikki PI (blink blink): I have to tell Juan Pablo how I feel about him tonight because, if I were to go home (blin blink) and didn’t tell him (blink blink) how I felt, I know I would have regretted it.
Juan (doing the “nosey” thing with Eskimo Nikki): Hmmm? (after she shrugs, he puts his arms around her and kisses) Thankyou. (Finger to the chin) What are you thinking?
Nikki (looking away like Clare did): I just, like…I dunno.
Juan (briefly looking down then back at her): Hmmm
Nikki (briefly rubbing his shoulder): I mean… this means a lot to me, like, being here… and I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t (Juan nods as he looks down) feel the way I do.
Juan (looking back at her): How c…
Nikki: Um. And… iloveyou. (Juan’s eyebrow is raised) And I think you probably already know that, but… it’s taken a lot for me to say it.
Juan: Mmmmm. You really know it? (She nods) You like me? I knew you liked me. (Garbled talk that the Eagle Ears will probably decipher better than I can.)
Juan does his finger wave in front of his face: And you want to stay? (Kiss) I like you. I like you. (Cue slushy music)
Nikki VO (over more kissing): It feels really good to tell Juan Pablo how I feel and I feels like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. I feel awesome right now and I don’t want this night to end. I don’t want the sun to come up in the morning. I want this night and this moment to last (blink blink) for forever.
Juan to Nikki (all grabled but the Eagle Ears will sort it out): Oooh-and-a-haff.
Nikki: It did.
Juan: In a second and a half.
Nikki: It did.
Juan VO: I love kissing Nikki. She’s a good kisser. I can’t wait to learn more about Nikki. I can’t wait… and my intentions are for her to see the real me. (Lights out. Can’t see anything now.)

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She decided to spend the night with me, but before that, she dropped the “I love you.” I wasn't really expecting that, and you could see it by my reaction. As my feelings for her are not there yet, I wanted to keep quiet rather than saying something that she may have taken the wrong way. I was very pleased with my night with Nikki. I really got to know her really well.

Everything about what they are showing us says Clare. One thing I noticed on the last chance date was that when Juan and Clare went to jump into the ocean He undressed her by taking off her cover-up/dress. It was very intimate move.
If it is Nikki something had to go very wrong at some point with Clare during the LCD or MTP.

I have thought about the whole removing of cover up being shown and it came off to me a little like the Ben covering Ashley in suntan lotion and mud, etc. Clare could certainly be his F1....(and I have no favorites) and a case can be made for both girls, depending on where you are standing so to speak. I do wonder also how long Clare practiced the "I'm loving falling in love with you" line....LOL...to get just the right effect.  :gi  

On the Countdown to Juan Pablo episode, the F4 are each shown, along with the crazies and Matter of Time girls. Nikki is flashed at the meet and greet in the promo, in the middle of three girls. Didn't recognize the others. Clare, Renee, and Andi are shown the most, but there is a flash of Nikki's screen test where she's in a hot pink dress.

I was looking at the family sections though. I had zero interest, less than zero interest, in this season, but then I saw that family segment, and I thought they were fun, striking, and worldly in a good way. So, I have found myself unexpectedly rooting for JP as a bit of a lamb stranded in a pasture of wolves (Suits at ABC, the Story the producers chose to tell about his season, the jealous and spurned girls, the ambitious girls using him to get their next Tv Gig, the lying girls who didn't apparently tell him they had a hard stop concert commitment in Germany in a week, the entertainment reporters looking to catch him off guard and turn him into a cartoon character, etc.) He is no victim, don't get me wrong, but not since Matt Grant have I seen a Lead so ill-prepared for what is involved with the job. Matt thought he was going to be swept up into a whirlwind of job offers that culminated with him being a late night TV host, or something along those lines. Now he is an online salesman back in London.

mtnlvr55 wrote:Everything about what they are showing us says Clare. One thing I noticed on the last chance date was that when Juan and Clare went to jump into the ocean He undressed her by taking off her cover-up/dress. It was very intimate move.
If it is Nikki something had to go very wrong at some point with Clare during the LCD or MTP.

Now I have to go back and watch. Wasn't Ali unbuttoning Roberto on their fantasy date? Not that I saw him as F1 that season... being brainwashed by all of the "perfect husband" talk directed towards Chris Lambton.

JBF wrote:

mtnlvr55 wrote:Everything about what they are showing us says Clare. One thing I noticed on the last chance date was that when Juan and Clare went to jump into the ocean He undressed her by taking off her cover-up/dress. It was very intimate move.
If it is Nikki something had to go very wrong at some point with Clare during the LCD or MTP.

Now I have to go back and watch. Wasn't Ali unbuttoning Roberto on their fantasy date? Not that I saw him as F1 that season... being brainwashed by all of the "perfect husband" talk directed towards Chris Lambton.

Yes I pointed out the cover up removal too! I thought it was very telling! If she is Not F1, I would think Nikki would not be thrilled seeing that !

USAGold wrote:

JBF wrote:

mtnlvr55 wrote:Everything about what they are showing us says Clare. One thing I noticed on the last chance date was that when Juan and Clare went to jump into the ocean He undressed her by taking off her cover-up/dress. It was very intimate move.
If it is Nikki something had to go very wrong at some point with Clare during the LCD or MTP.

Now I have to go back and watch. Wasn't Ali unbuttoning Roberto on their fantasy date? Not that I saw him as F1 that season... being brainwashed by all of the "perfect husband" talk directed towards Chris Lambton.

Yes I pointed out the cover up removal too! I thought it was very telling! If she is Not F1, I would think Nikki would not be thrilled seeing that !

I think it was a brilliant metaphor of each personality. Clare made it clear early (1st 1-1) that she wants a man who will treat her like her dad did, treat her like a princess. Nikki is more independent. I think he knows both women quite well at this point and is adapting to their personalities to see if either works for him. Affection to Clare is expressed physically; for Nikki it's teasing banter. His ability to cater to both is where the fairness aspect comes. What I believe is truly fair is to treat people as individuals so each relationship is going to look different because the women are different. Which is better depends on his own preference in a partner.

More on Clare’s FD date

jajajajaja

Part 1...

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Best scene:

Clare: We have all day.
Juan: I know. And all night.
Clare: No time limit.
Juan: And all night.
Clare: Maybe.
Juan: I know.
Clare: You'll never know, yeah?
Juan: I know. (turns around) I see your face. (kiss)

Part 2...

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Juan: Your mother's so cute.

Interesting that she again brings up her parents' three week engagement.

Yeah... Litta can make screencaps of the 2:13 mark.

Another funny scene...

Clare: You like it?
Juan: Yes... a lot. (Yeah)
Juan VO/PI: Fantasy suite... it's total privacy. No cameras. It is just going to be the two of us (cue shot of him eye-ing her down) and it is gonna be easy (huge grin, followed by Clare putting her hand over his eyes)... it is gonna be relaxed and we are gonna get to know each other better. A LOT BETTER. (He says this with a straight face in his PI session.) But um... y'know, at the end of the day I have to keep my eyes open and not make a mistake. (i.e. ending the season with Clare sporting a genuine "bump on the tummy". After all, Momma Lillian says marriage is not something to play around with.)

Part 3...

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Ugh. More talk about Camilla. Well… she is an important topic this season. The abc.com site made the fantasy suite card reading a highlight of the episode among the “extras”, but I didn’t see anything all that significant here… apart from the Camilla factor.

^^ honestly all above seems to indicate he can't wait to be intimate more so than a lasting relationship.