*No Spoilers* The Bachelor Episode 10 WTA Discussions

albean99 wrote:I've never heard of the f1 hanging out with the girls after the WTA and I've watched every season other than the first 2. Interesting.

Has the F2 ever been at the WTA hanging out with the rest of the gang ? I though neither did.

Perhaps she was part of it after all.

That's what Im thinking. She had to have gone to discuss "drama" surrounding her, most notably "oceangate" and "possessiveness" probably. Courtney did the same though she was obviously F1 and her and ben were no more...but still. Whether Clare is F2 or is F1 (was F1)..she was still there and looked to be having a good time. No hard feelings with the girls although, she's most likely still not in the Kelly, Andi, Sharleen (and Nikki) group.

jojo47 wrote:

iamreal2u wrote:It does look like Clare at the far end, but where is Renee?

Knowing Renee, she's probably the one taking the photo! LOL

ETA: Has Renee shown up in any of the pictures from L.A. from Twitter/Instagram yesterday or today? I only saw the ones of her in Seattle. Wasn't she at WTA?

For me JP was a pleasant surprise! I can't believe how much I liked him as a person this season. He's witty, he's quick on his feet and he's all about being kind and honest. He struggles with those who can't handle honesty. LOL, he's definitely not Nikki's kind of honest. Then I can see a few ruffled feathers. LOL The girls can't accuse him of that...that's for sure! He did everything he could to prevent broken hearts. It may be hard to tell with the lack of conversation they have allowed us to see, but I've found him to be always on his feet regardless of how they have edited him at times. I can see through that.

Also, regarding Clare's fuller hair...she may have had hair extensions put in while she was at home on her HTD waiting for JP.

eversotrue wrote:People have been throwing things here and there that imply that they dont like him or see him differently now after having watched the show (in a negtive light obviously). And I really dont think they're being sarcastic but saying what they truly feel/dealt with.

When you say people - who are you referencing other than Lauren and Kelly? I think Lucy has made some derogatory comments but am curious about others. And, in my opinion, one can be speaking the truth and concomitantly be dripping in sarcasm. Further, with all these contestants (with the exception of Sharleen) we have to be mindful that they are watching the show through the lens of having been rejected. For instance, Lauren tweeted that she was feeling apathy in Korea (of course, this was said only recently) which certainly conflicts with what we witnessed when she attempted to initiate a kiss with JuanPa. It's quite common to try to revise history as a way to self-protect.

I've seen comments from: Lauren, Allison, Christy, Kat, Victoria, etc. even from girls who got axed the first night. People see his lack of convo and flip flop ways and have come to a "conclusion". Not to mention, people REALLY do not like the way he treated Clare in regards to oceangate. The comments he made about a gay bachelor didn't do any favors either (Victoria said she was glad she got sent home based on that).

docnash14 wrote:

eversotrue wrote:People have been throwing things here and there that imply that they dont like him or see him differently now after having watched the show (in a negtive light obviously). And I really dont think they're being sarcastic but saying what they truly feel/dealt with.

When you say people -  who are you referencing other than Lauren and Kelly?  I think Lucy has made some derogatory comments but am curious about others.  And, in my opinion, one can be speaking the truth and concomitantly be dripping in sarcasm.  Further, with all these contestants (with the exception of Sharleen) we have to be mindful that they are watching the show through the lens of having been rejected.  For instance, Lauren tweeted that she was feeling apathy in Korea (of course, this was said only recently) which certainly conflicts with what we witnessed when she attempted to initiate a kiss with JuanPa.  It's quite common to try to revise history as a way to  self-protect.

  

eversotrue wrote:I've seen comments from: Lauren, Allison, Christy, Kat, Victoria, etc. even from girls who got axed the first night. People see his lack of convo and flip flop ways and have come to a "conclusion".

I get the lack of convo as I explained and the flip flopping...he's protecting them as much as himself. He was doing his best to prevent what they are obviously now feeling. As Doc said, I do feel it's their way of handling their pride or hurt feelings.

mprssdbyu wrote:

eversotrue wrote:I've seen comments from: Lauren, Allison, Christy, Kat, Victoria, etc. even from girls who got axed the first night. People see his lack of convo and flip flop ways and have come to a "conclusion".

I get the lack of convo as I explained and the flip flopping...he's protecting them as much as himself. He was doing his best to prevent what they are obviously now feeling.  As Doc said, I do feel it's their way of handling their pride or hurt feelings.

I don't take much stock in what those girls above said. With the exception of Kat, most of those girls were let go fairly early in the process, so everything they're seeing is exactly how we are seeing it, from the lens of a highly edited reality tv show.

eversotrue wrote:I've seen comments from: Lauren, Allison, Christy, Kat, Victoria, etc. even from girls who got axed the first night. People see his lack of convo and flip flop ways and have come to a "conclusion". Not to mention, people REALLY do not like the way he treated Clare in regards to oceangate. The comments he made about a gay bachelor didn't do any favors either (Victoria said she was glad she got sent home based on that).

I'm going to agree with the oceangate conversation. I do not blame Clare for feeling the way she did. Unfortunately, it was her first dose of his brutal honesty. But that's who he is. He's honest to a fault. I totally get her being hurt and upset. He doesn't understand it but I get it.

When that convo took place, I felt then Clare was not F1. Just one 1-1 date with Nikki and he's sliding Clare into second or third place. His regret had as much to do with Nikki and Sharlene finding out as it did with Camilla. IMO

How do you explain his flip flopping in regards to Camila then? He uses her as a cover up quite a bit and people have noticed that. EVERYONE has noticed that. Yeah, im sure they're trying to make themselves feel better in a way after having watched his connection with the other girls and having been rejected but they also realize what a doof he is (at least shows to be). Like I said: he doesnt have intellectual convos, he uses Camila as an excuse a lot, he flip flops, he uses the same tactic with all the girls when they're upset, he tells them to "not cry" "or Im gonna be mad and not tell you anything", he treated the Clare situation badly, he said those anti gay remarks, etc. This is way more then these girls' getting their feelings hurt and I think it's ridiculous to even try to justify that. This guy has said a lot of stupid stuff and has done a lot of stupid stuff. It doesn't take a genuis to notice that. Most of America has noticed and so have his contestants.

eversotrue wrote:How do you explain his flip flopping in regards to camila then? He uses her as a cover up quite a bit and people have noticed that. EVERYONE has noticed that. Yeah, im sure they're trying to make themselves feel better in a way after having watched his connection with the other girls and having been rejected but they also realize what a doof he is (at least shows to be). Like I said: he doesnt have intellectual convos, he uses Camila as an excuse a lot, he flip flops, he uses the same tactic with all the girls when they're upset, he tells them to "not cry" "or Im gonna be mad and nkt tell you anything", he treated the Clare situation badly, he said those anti gay remarks, etc. This is way more then these girls' getting their feelings hurt and I think it's ridicoulous to even trying to justify that. This guy has said a lot of stupid stuff and has done a lot of stupid stuff. It doesn't take a genuis to notice that. Most of America has noticed and so have his contestants.

We are definitely on a different page. I do think he's very concerned about how he's perceived with Camilla in mind. I do think he pulled back as time went on and tried to be physically connected to only those that he saw potential in being his F1. That list for me included Nikki, Clare and Sharlene. The edit doesn't show us his attempt at any conversations that had depth. Do I think he had them? Absolutely. Do I think he could have had more...absolutely. As I said before IMO, the language barrier made him feel insecure and it may have hurt him especially in regards to Sharlene. Crying upsets him him because he's genuinely trying his best not to hurt them. Making them look at him and listen (in his eyes) helps soften the blow and changes the direction of tears. That's just how he deals with those situations. As far as the Bachelor not being ready for a gay bachelor during primetime. Some would lie and say of course... he didn't ... he told the truth about how he felt ... I find no fault in that. We're just on a different page and that's okay. I don't think he's God's gift to women but I do like him very much as a person. I have learned that much this season.

ETA: I agreed that if I were Clare I wouldn't have been happy about oceangate convo either. I talked about that in my last response so I won't repeat it. It's easy to find though if you'd like to read it.