Episode 9 -- Fantasy Dates -- airs TUESDAY February 25

Sable wrote:

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

I agree with you to a certain extent about Andi.  I think she knew she was probably going to be the one to go at F3, so that is mainly why she asked to leave.  I am sure the producers were behind the whole big drama exit.  She knew she would probably be a good candidate for bacherette, so that is probably why she agreed to confront Juan Pablo in the manner that she did.  I don't think her or Juan Pablo are bad people.  I really don't think there is any animosity between them any longer, and I think Andi will have a new appreciation for Juan Pablo and what he had to go through during the process once she is the bachelorette.  On another thread, someone had posted a summary of the WTA.  It said something along the lines that once many of the bachelorettes began confronting Juan Pablo during the show that Sharleen AND Andi defended him.  I find that interesting that Andi would defend him given how horribly their last conversation went and how upset she seemed to be during it.  That makes me think that a lot of the anger she showed Juan Pablo during their last talk probably had a lot to do with producer prodding and manipulation.  It will certainly be interesting to me how she handles the bachelors on the show once she is the one in charge.

docnash14 wrote:

Ariela wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Ariela wrote:I'm assuming that she is smart because she is a lawyer. But complaining about JP and blaming him for not falling in love is wrong. They are both at fault for "not thinking" with their heads.

I don't think Andi was blaming JP for not falling in love with her.  That's certainly not what she said.  What came across to me was that she was disappointed that JP didn't try to get to know her beyond the superficial stuff.  They didn't have deeper conversations about religion or background. I agree with JP that she should have brought that up in the FS, but Andi's response was that when she tried to talk to JP, he would interrupt with a story of his own or a request for "besitos". I think she was just really, REALLY frustrated and that translated into anger.

I can appreciate the bolded. However, there were red flags BEFORE the FS that he was not the guy for her, but she either didn't pay attention, or wanted to talk herself into falling in love, or waited to the end for the opportunity to become the next Bach. She finally saw a frog behind closed doors? I think there is more to this story. For me, things are not adding up. We'll see what happens when she's the Bachelorette. Remember Bentley? I can see MF rubbing his hands....

I actually believe it was a little of both.  I think she wanted to see more emotion out of him to validate that he had feelings for her (analogous to I want to be invited to the party even if I don't want to attend), especially since she had seen him so upset over other departures.  And I agree with you that she felt invalidated due to her perception that he had not tried to get to know her on a deeper level by asking questions.  In observing her dad ask several questions both of her and JuanPa, I can easily see where Andi would equate asking questions with the other person's level of interest in her.  Conversely, JuanPa commented that in his opinion,  if something was important to Andi (as many of the other women did), he would have expected her to share it.  In my private practice as a psychologist, I teach couples communication groups.  When I went through the training many years ago to obtain certification for teaching the class, I was quite surprised to learn that a good listener does not ask questions as doing so may inadvertently change the direction of the conversation intended by the talker.  Instead, the effective listener acknowledges and invites (tell me more) further information.  So asking questions is not always the accurate barometer of someone's interest.

I read in JuanPa's blog that he was quite surprised by some of Andi's comments.  I can see why he would be.  Many times in earlier episodes when he would tell her "it's okay" she would comment something along the lines of how comforted she felt by him, or how he put her at ease.  Yet, it was this same type of comforting that seemed to infuriate her during their final talk.  

Andi and some of the other women seem quite upset due to their perception that JuanPa didn't take the process seriously.  Thus, I find it quite ironic the IG that was tweeted of Andi, Kelly and a third woman (think it was Sharleen) re-enacting/making fun of the scene with JuanPa from the other night .

albean99 wrote:

Sable wrote:

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

I agree with you to a certain extent about Andi.  I think she knew she was probably going to be the one to go at F3, so that is mainly why she asked to leave.  I am sure the producers were behind the whole big drama exit.  She knew she would probably be a good candidate for bacherette, so that is probably why she agreed to confront Juan Pablo in the manner that she did.  I don't think her or Juan Pablo are bad people.  I really don't think there is any animosity between them any longer, and I think Andi will have a new appreciation for Juan Pablo and what he had to go through during the process once she is the bachelorette.  On another thread, someone had posted a summary of the WTA.  It said something along the lines that once many of the bachelorettes began confronting Juan Pablo during the show that Sharleen AND Andi defended him.  I find that interesting that Andi would defend him given how horribly their last conversation went and how upset she seemed to be during it.  That makes me think that a lot of the anger she showed Juan Pablo during their last talk probably had a lot to do with producer prodding and manipulation.  It will certainly be interesting to me how she handles the bachelors on the show once she is the one in charge.

I'm sure there was producer manipulation because there always is but the main reason that Andi seems to be over her frustration with JP is likely that it was months ago. She already got to vent so therefore moved on. I don't really get those who come to the WTA and still seem angry and hurt by the lead.

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

FLChica wrote:

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

Yes, Andi clearly has an agenda. Many refuse to acknowledge that Juan Pablo is fluent in one language (Spanish) and well beyond conversant in another (English). That would indicate some level of intelligence. Instead some viewers choose to make fun of Juan Pablo's accent, call him an idiot etc. IIRC, Sharleen is the only bi-lingual contestant. If we are going to equate language proficiency with intelligence, then Andi is lacking.

Our All-American born-again-virgin former Bachelor was hardly an effective communicator. We saw that all season with the highlight being AshLee calling him out on what he said to her in the FS. A little recycling from TPTB perhaps?

I enjoy articulate, educated women that know being "equal" to a man doesn't require emasculating him. Andi is not that kind of woman.

umngirl wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I can't compare the two situations because I never found it credible the things AshLee was accusing him of saying. Obviously he cared more about the others since he took them to the finale and married one of them! On the other hand, Andi had legit beef with JuanPa for his lacking of caring/asking about her, making comments about her barely making it to that point, etc.

Oh and AshLee dear, still taking jabs at him over a year later is not a good look for you.

albean99 wrote:Isn't that the premise of the show? If each doesn't think they are potentially the f1 then why be there? I think I'd be upset if I felt the lead really didn't care about my feelings.