Episode 9 -- Fantasy Dates -- airs TUESDAY February 25

atem wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Plenty of people still like Andi and admire what she did to expose the "dark underbelly" of this show.  I posted two op-eds adressing this over in the media thread.  :Smiley: 

I'm just going off what I'm reading here, but it doesn't seem that big a deal to me.  Now, if one of the Final 2 did that, THEN I would be impressed.  

I still totally believe that Andi said that due to finally figuring out she was strung out for story purposes.  I mean, her friend ends up with him and she gets to be the next Bachelorette and that's what she most likely wanted anyway.

I've seen some pictures here and I sure hope she does something with her hair, because it looks awful!

Ha! I've been wondering when someone would say something about her hair. I do like it up but when down it leaves a lot to be desired.

kdubs_ca wrote:Just had a chance to watch the show last night.  Oh, Andi, Andi, Andi.  How do I love thee?  Let me count the ways.  I love how you elicited that blank stare when asking JP what religion you practiced, what your politics were.  I love how you declared that you hoped JP knew that the date went poorly KNOWING that the editors were likely splicing it with JP talking about how great it went.  But most of all I love you for the conversation about being a default; causing JP to emphatically deny using the word default because he had literally no idea what it meant.  Good times.  Good times.

Once again, how bad in bed is this guy?  Usually the dim bulbs get at least a day of afterglow grace period from their much smarter companions.  And thanks JP for telling me that it's OK so I can be entertained and not feel bad that someone's actually getting hurt.  That was comedy gold all around!

  

One thing RS harps on SO much is JP's accent/him not being from 'here.' Am I crazy in thinking this is not the issue, and that's it's just HIM. Millions of people speak English as a second language and aren't anything at all like Juan Pablo...

JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

[quote="Alanna"]JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

[/quote



Now her best friend is dating him and maybe soon to be engaged to Juan. I wonder if they plan on double dating after her show??    

Ariela wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Ariela wrote:I'm assuming that she is smart because she is a lawyer. But complaining about JP and blaming him for not falling in love is wrong. They are both at fault for "not thinking" with their heads.

I don't think Andi was blaming JP for not falling in love with her.  That's certainly not what she said.  What came across to me was that she was disappointed that JP didn't try to get to know her beyond the superficial stuff.  They didn't have deeper conversations about religion or background. I agree with JP that she should have brought that up in the FS, but Andi's response was that when she tried to talk to JP, he would interrupt with a story of his own or a request for "besitos". I think she was just really, REALLY frustrated and that translated into anger.

I can appreciate the bolded. However, there were red flags BEFORE the FS that he was not the guy for her, but she either didn't pay attention, or wanted to talk herself into falling in love, or waited to the end for the opportunity to become the next Bach. She finally saw a frog behind closed doors? I think there is more to this story. For me, things are not adding up. We'll see what happens when she's the Bachelorette. Remember Bentley? I can see MF rubbing his hands....

I actually believe it was a little of both. I think she wanted to see more emotion out of him to validate that he had feelings for her (analogous to I want to be invited to the party even if I don't want to attend), especially since she had seen him so upset over other departures. And I agree with you that she felt invalidated due to her perception that he had not tried to get to know her on a deeper level by asking questions. In observing her dad ask several questions both of her and JuanPa, I can easily see where Andi would equate asking questions with the other person's level of interest in her. Conversely, JuanPa commented that in his opinion, if something was important to Andi (as many of the other women did), he would have expected her to share it. In my private practice as a psychologist, I teach couples communication groups. When I went through the training many years ago to obtain certification for teaching the class, I was quite surprised to learn that a good listener does not ask questions as doing so may inadvertently change the direction of the conversation intended by the talker. Instead, the effective listener acknowledges and invites (tell me more) further information. So asking questions is not always the accurate barometer of someone's interest.

I read in JuanPa's blog that he was quite surprised by some of Andi's comments. I can see why he would be. Many times in earlier episodes when he would tell her "it's okay" she would comment something along the lines of how comforted she felt by him, or how he put her at ease. Yet, it was this same type of comforting that seemed to infuriate her during their final talk.

Andi and some of the other women seem quite upset due to their perception that JuanPa didn't take the process seriously. Thus, I find it quite ironic the IG that was tweeted of Andi, Kelly and a third woman (think it was Sharleen) re-enacting/making fun of the scene with JuanPa from the other night .

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

  And we will be seeing it in a few months. Let's see if she can practice what she preaches...which I doubt. Can't wait to see what MF and company will throw at her. I'm betting it won't be pretty.

docnash14 wrote:

Ariela wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Ariela wrote:I'm assuming that she is smart because she is a lawyer. But complaining about JP and blaming him for not falling in love is wrong. They are both at fault for "not thinking" with their heads.

I don't think Andi was blaming JP for not falling in love with her.  That's certainly not what she said.  What came across to me was that she was disappointed that JP didn't try to get to know her beyond the superficial stuff.  They didn't have deeper conversations about religion or background. I agree with JP that she should have brought that up in the FS, but Andi's response was that when she tried to talk to JP, he would interrupt with a story of his own or a request for "besitos". I think she was just really, REALLY frustrated and that translated into anger.

I can appreciate the bolded. However, there were red flags BEFORE the FS that he was not the guy for her, but she either didn't pay attention, or wanted to talk herself into falling in love, or waited to the end for the opportunity to become the next Bach. She finally saw a frog behind closed doors? I think there is more to this story. For me, things are not adding up. We'll see what happens when she's the Bachelorette. Remember Bentley? I can see MF rubbing his hands....

I actually believe it was a little of both.  I think she wanted to see more emotion out of him to validate that he had feelings for her (analogous to I want to be invited to the party even if I don't want to attend), especially since she had seen him so upset over other departures.  And I agree with you that she felt invalidated due to her perception that he had not tried to get to know her on a deeper level by asking questions.  In observing her dad ask several questions both of her and JuanPa, I can easily see where Andi would equate asking questions with the other person's level of interest in her.  Conversely, JuanPa commented that in his opinion,  if something was important to Andi (as many of the other women did), he would have expected her to share it.  In my private practice as a psychologist, I teach couples communication groups.  When I went through the training many years ago to obtain certification for teaching the class, I was quite surprised to learn that a good listener does not ask questions as doing so may inadvertently change the direction of the conversation intended by the talker.  Instead, the effective listener acknowledges and invites (tell me more) further information.  So asking questions is not always the accurate barometer of someone's interest.

I read in JuanPa's blog that he was quite surprised by some of Andi's comments.  I can see why he would be.  Many times in earlier episodes when he would tell her "it's okay" she would comment something along the lines of how comforted she felt by him, or how he put her at ease.  Yet, it was this same type of comforting that seemed to infuriate her during their final talk.  

Andi and some of the other women seem quite upset due to their perception that JuanPa didn't take the process seriously.  Thus, I find it quite ironic the IG that was tweeted of Andi, Kelly and a third woman (think it was Sharleen) re-enacting/making fun of the scene with JuanPa from the other night .

Bolding by me...

I think the part I bolded is what made Andi so angry at Juan Pablo in her departure. I think she was upset that she didn't show more emotion when she was leaving. She saw him get really upset at rose ceremonies when Kat left, when Chelsie left and when Renee left. For Juan Pablo, I don't think it was a matter of him being upset or not because she was leaving. I don't think he showed much emotion when she was leaving because he only seemed to get upset when he was the one rejecting the women and asking them to leave, not the other way around. If Andi had known what Juan Pablo's reaction was when Sharleen left (he showed no emotion with her as well and didn't cry either) she may not have been as upset in her final conversation with Juan Pablo.

I also think Juan Pablo not asking her any questions or not getting to know her as well as she thought he should have is just his personality. He may be like that with the other woman or may just be like that with the woman who are not his F1. Maybe he had more in depth conversations with Nikki compared to Clare and Andi? Maybe he didn't take the time to dig deeper with anyone but his F1? I just really think that Juan Pablo is a very simple person - he's definitely not a deep thinker! It will be interesting to me how Andi handles the bachelors on her season and just how deep she will dig with the other men, especially once she has her F1 chosen and there's still a lot of show left to shoot. I really didn't like Juan Pablo for bachelor in the beginning, but I have come to realize he is who he is. I also think it is just the nature of the show for these people to not really know each other that well by the end of the show, even with the final few bachelors/bachelorettes. I remember reading some comments from Melissa Rycroft when she published her book. She had said something along the lines that once she was out of the "Bachelor Bubble" she could not believe she had accepted a proposal from Jason because she was not attracted to him at all and that she didn't even know what he did for a living - and she was the original F1! I think it's true what a lot of final couples say after the show - that their relationship really does not begin until the show is over and they are out of the public eye and the "Bachelor Bubble".

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

I agree with you to a certain extent about Andi. I think she knew she was probably going to be the one to go at F3, so that is mainly why she asked to leave. I am sure the producers were behind the whole big drama exit. She knew she would probably be a good candidate for bacherette, so that is probably why she agreed to confront Juan Pablo in the manner that she did. I don't think her or Juan Pablo are bad people. I really don't think there is any animosity between them any longer, and I think Andi will have a new appreciation for Juan Pablo and what he had to go through during the process once she is the bachelorette. On another thread, someone had posted a summary of the WTA. It said something along the lines that once many of the bachelorettes began confronting Juan Pablo during the show that Sharleen AND Andi defended him. I find that interesting that Andi would defend him given how horribly their last conversation went and how upset she seemed to be during it. That makes me think that a lot of the anger she showed Juan Pablo during their last talk probably had a lot to do with producer prodding and manipulation. It will certainly be interesting to me how she handles the bachelors on the show once she is the one in charge.

Sprite wrote:

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

  And we will be seeing it in a few months. Let's see if she can practice what she preaches...which I doubt. Can't wait to see what MF and company will throw at her. I'm betting it won't be pretty.

I agree! It is not easy to be the bachelor or bachelorette. I am sure by the end of her season she will get the same criticism that Juan Pablo and all the previous bachelors and bachlorettes have gotten before her. It seems that at the beginning of the show the general public just loves the bachelor or bachlorette, but by the end of the season, they are not liked by a lot because of how they treated some of their contestants. I think by the end of her season, she will be able to see and appreciate how difficult it is to be the lead of the show and how you have to walk a very fine line to make it to the end of it.

Sable wrote:

Sprite wrote:

sde1041 wrote:

Alanna wrote:JuanPa's issue isn't language, it's him. He's an idiot in any language, eeeees okay is like the words Coke and ok- universal. Ugh. Andi ftw!

I disagree.
Being honest is a quality.
Being able to speak fluently another langage is a sign of intelligence.
Expressing his feelings another way than other people doesn't make him stupid, just different.

I thought Andi was intelligent.
But she knew what she was signing for and still, complained about losing her time.
She had doubts but kept whining and asking for reassurance.
She couldn't wait to get out of the suite but still, stayed.
It's not FTW but rather WTF !!!
She clearly had an agenda ...

  And we will be seeing it in a few months. Let's see if she can practice what she preaches...which I doubt. Can't wait to see what MF and company will throw at her. I'm betting it won't be pretty.

I agree! It is not easy to be the bachelor or bachelorette. I am sure by the end of her season she will get the same criticism that Juan Pablo and all the previous bachelors and bachlorettes have gotten before her. It seems that at the beginning of the show the general public just loves the bachelor or bachlorette, but by the end of the season, they are not liked by a lot because of how they treated some of their contestants. I think by the end of her season, she will be able to see and appreciate how difficult it is to be the lead of the show and how you have to walk a very fine line to make it to the end of it.

Exactly! Why DeAnna went and apologized to Brad, it ain't easy.

Great post sde!