*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions

[quote="rosesrREd"]

Aunties_Love wrote:

JBF wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:So.......I see a definate resemblance between Ben's season and now JP's.  Could it really be that simple?

... and Ben's nightly adventure also occurred in an episode #5. Yeah, it is obvious who is F1 now. That part is simple. The outcome will probably be different since the storyline is quite different. (Not sure if we have a "happy ending" necessarily.) Yet Ben made it clear he had no intention of getting married, telling Rachel (I think) in episode #1 that he was not going for the "wife thing" just "the love". Neither Ben nor Courtney did any crying afterward. There was no talk before the next rose ceremony. Also Courtney was like "free spirit" Lucy, comfortable appearing naked in Panama with the other ladies too. There wasn't COMPLETE nudity here, but it is definite from the make-out sessions that no other woman watching this show would want to be F1.

Yea, I am thinking Clare is F1 as well.  Considering the ocean thing, would that be something another F1 would/could sweep under the rug and forget about it?  You are right about the similiarities...Both Courtney and Clare had their first dates in epi 2, the drama that surrounded each one is the same per se as far as Courtney monopolized Ben's time and now Clare is doing it with JP.

Is there anything else that you could comment on?[/quo


I don't think Clare is the F1.  Yes, JPab is going to have to explain it to his F1, but the fact that he felt guilty about it, will help his cause.  

Yes, he feels very remorseful which says a lot about who he is and his values. So, I can see his F1 understanding the situation with Claire, they did say she was crazy..

IMO, when comparing his season with Ben or anybody else, we need to keep in mind that JP culture is different than all the others. Family is very important to his culture, there are sets of values within the culture and families that can't be violated depending on the family. The role of a father is super important. Just watch Juan with his father, him and Camilla. In addition, remember the large family gathered just to say goodbye and wish him success in his journey to find love, I would not be surprised if all are there to check out the F3 and give their input which will be a major deciding factor for JP F1. JMO.

[quote="rosesrREd"]

Aunties_Love wrote:

JBF wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:So.......I see a definate resemblance between Ben's season and now JP's.  Could it really be that simple?

... and Ben's nightly adventure also occurred in an episode #5. Yeah, it is obvious who is F1 now. That part is simple. The outcome will probably be different since the storyline is quite different. (Not sure if we have a "happy ending" necessarily.) Yet Ben made it clear he had no intention of getting married, telling Rachel (I think) in episode #1 that he was not going for the "wife thing" just "the love". Neither Ben nor Courtney did any crying afterward. There was no talk before the next rose ceremony. Also Courtney was like "free spirit" Lucy, comfortable appearing naked in Panama with the other ladies too. There wasn't COMPLETE nudity here, but it is definite from the make-out sessions that no other woman watching this show would want to be F1.

Yea, I am thinking Clare is F1 as well.  Considering the ocean thing, would that be something another F1 would/could sweep under the rug and forget about it?  You are right about the similiarities...Both Courtney and Clare had their first dates in epi 2, the drama that surrounded each one is the same per se as far as Courtney monopolized Ben's time and now Clare is doing it with JP.

Is there anything else that you could comment on?[/quo


I don't think Clare is the F1.  Yes, JPab is going to have to explain it to his F1, but the fact that he felt guilty about it, will help his cause.  

Yes, he feels very remorseful which says a lot about who he is and his values. So, I can see his F1 understanding the situation with Claire, they did say she was crazy..

IMO, when comparing his season with Ben or anybody else, we need to keep in mind that JP culture is different than all the others. Family is very important to his culture, there are sets of values within the culture and families that can't be violated depending on the family. The role of a father is super important. Just watch Juan with his father, him and Camilla. In addition, remember the large family gathered just to say goodbye and wish him success in his journey to find love, I would not be surprised if all are there to check out the F3 and give their input which will be a major deciding factor for JP F1. JMO.

There doesn't seem to be too much love or understanding of tonight's situation for Clare here. May I ask why it is felt that way and considering how Ben/Courtney time in the ocean was considered as being a clear F1 thing as many couldn't see how anyone else would end up as final 1, yet this time it is felt so certain that it isn't. Could someone tell me why? Thanks. Just trying to get your views on it all. Thanks.

Yeah, a lot of people noticed he spelled Clare's name incorrectly but I think it may have just been a little slip up because he's spelled it right a million times before. He also apparently spelled his own name wrong a couple of days ago when referring to "Jaun-ary"....Has grammar issues LOL

Some of you are giving this guy wayyy too much credit. Yeah, he's nice and whatever but his "values" obviously don't mean much. He honestly uses some things as an escuse when it's convenient for him (Camila, etc.).

Also, I don't know about F1, BUT the Clare thing doesn't seem to have gone to bad with him based on how things continue to go. She's obviously not going let it go, based on next week...But atleast she isnt' balling (promo). I consider that a victory!!

Aunties_Love wrote:There doesn't seem to be too much love or understanding of tonight's situation for Clare here.  May I ask why it is felt that way and considering how Ben/Courtney time in the ocean was considered as being a clear F1 thing as many couldn't see how anyone else would end up as final 1, yet this time it is felt so certain that it isn't.  Could someone tell me why?  Thanks.  Just trying to get your views on it all.  Thanks.

I didn't watch Bens season too much (I think I watched the Shawntel episodes and that's it) so I have no clue why everyone considered Courtney F1 after the skinny dipping incident in that season.   Neither was I on the boards so that is news to me.

Just from my own POV, Ben and JaunP are 2 very different men with different situations. Ben went into his season looking for "love" which loosely translates into a grand fling. JP does not seem to be looking for that. At least that's what he tells us, he is looking for a life partner who will be a step mother to Camilla as well. His situation is way different from Ben's. Most are merely feeding off what the leads were telling us they wanted.  

Some other thoughts which I may have mentioned before....................
JP was also to blame for what happened, he could/should have stopped and put on the brakes - at multiple times both during the group date, during the "private time" in the pool and that night in the ocean. He didn't.
Clare on the other hand knew that he is a single father with a child that may watch that part of the show. She was went out of her way to seduce him. She conveniently forgot about his daughter and the other girls.
What is more telling is that when JP started talking to her at the RC he started off by saying that it wasn't fair because of the other girls. Clare put ear plugs into her ears and continued to flirt with him. He said it again and she still didn't get the picture. When she pushed back saying that what is important is what you and I feel and how our relationship is progressing he pushed back as well - as though he wanted to tell her that hers was not the only relationship important to him.
He then seemed to change tactic and it was only when he mentioned Camilla that she even started backing off. For her, the other girls were non-consequential but yeah his daughter made her feel bad. THAT is the reason the situation is off putting to some of us. She was selfish and immature by equating making out with "opening up finally".
I also feel (perhaps wrongly) that he had time and another date to make him change his opinion on what happened between him and Clare that night. Maybe I'm wrong but it is possible. He pretty much ignored the girls on the date all day and then gave Clare his attention again for the first 1on1. But there were 2 other girls not present on that date. I do wonder if things would have been slightly different if they were there also. We'll see in future episodes.

Aunties_Love wrote:There doesn't seem to be too much love or understanding of tonight's situation for Clare here.  May I ask why it is felt that way and considering how Ben/Courtney time in the ocean was considered as being a clear F1 thing as many couldn't see how anyone else would end up as final 1, yet this time it is felt so certain that it isn't.  Could someone tell me why?  Thanks.  Just trying to get your views on it all.  Thanks.

Ben didn't care one bit about how it would affect the other girls feelings, come across to viewers or that it was disrespectfully to all the other girls. He appeared to have no interest or affection for any of his other girls. He probably would have done that every episode with Courtney if they let him. Also, nude making out takes it to a whole other level if he picked someone else.

JP was sorry, guilty realized it would look bad to the other girls, and to people watching on tv. he was trying to save face immediately, even though it came across badly. He obviously likes to make out with the girls he's attracted to, Clare isn't the only one he likely could get "carried away with" right now. Also, regret during the show and on twitter now (he said he made a mistake) seem like a point against Clare as F1, to me.

I do agree with this part, nd4reality. "JP was also to blame for what happened, he could/should have stopped and put on the brakes - at multiple times both during the group date, during the "private time" in the pool and that night in the ocean. He didn't.
Clare on the other hand knew that he is a single father with a child that may watch that part of the show. She was went out of her way to seduce him. She conveniently forgot about his daughter and the other girls."

This was all production manipulation here. They are trying to wedge a crowbar between Juan and Clare just so they have a show. Unfortunately, neither is good at writing poetry on post-cards... and I am not sure if Juan can boo-hoo as well for the cameras when some key contestant ditches him on a date.

I hate to sound sssssoooooo cynical of this show, BUT...

Regarding "dramatic" Clare. Was she really? Yes, she annoys the other ladies with her clingyness, but only Andi and Nikki are putting up much of a fight. Sharleen had tears rolling down her cheeks when her buddy Danielle was leaving! My jaw dropped over that scene. I mean... I am not insinuating anything "intense" here (Juan's cute word), but it still had my head scratching.

(Speaking of Sharleen... I forgot to mention in my recap above a very funny edit with her: the camera panned on Sharleen when Chris Harrison said "it has been a happy week"... as if HE and Sharleen enjoyed it even if others haven't. I tell ya... the pearly-toothed host has The Eye for her!)

I still think Juan was wrong and Clare right here in their discussion. It takes two to tango and Juan's "excuse" could have been discussed BEFORE pool time and surf time. HELLO?!? Juan? Is there anything inside there? Knock knock.

It is obvious what happened. Andi the district attorney and the others who saw "IT" on the group date were ready to make a mass exodus and a handler (Elan, Peter, Robert, somebody) told Juan he had to "cool things off" and do something to cause a "rift" in the relationship. It worked. The ladies saw Clare a blubbering mess. Ain't allergies this time!

The fact that he was still with her again and again... and again... trying to "un-do" what he said only re-enforced the fact (for me) that she's the one he wants, drama or no drama. I just feel bad for the other frontrunners having to compete. At least Nikki got to talk about her job a lot on screen, so she will get something-something out of this, career-wise. Maybe either Andi or Renee can become Bachelorette and Harrison can hook up Sharleen... unless she wants Danielle instead. Oh I am sure everything was planned out ahead of time.

I hate to defend Princess Clairol here... since she is a Princess after all and I have many opinions regarding "royalty". Yes, Courtney skinnydipped with Ben in episode #5. Yes, Vienna "snuck" into Jake's wine country castle bed in that season's episode #5. Then again, Ali and Roberto were doing quite a bit of Juan/Clare activity in Iceland's Blue Lagoon at this same time in her season, only we didn't know about THAT until a finale "montage"... just as we didn't know how far Ashley and Jordan Paul were going on his very first date, just hours after Bentley left... until that season's finale "montage". Some seasons they wait to give us the "goods". Other times they don't. The fact that the pool and surfside "fun" could have easily been snipped by the editors only confirms to me that Clare is the only one Juan is in "cahoots" with post show, although he may also be visiting Nikki, Andi, Sharleen, Chelsie or anybody else as a "friend" to fool snoopers. (No, I have not read Reality Steve. Stopped reading him after one-too-many stupid homophobic emails he enjoyed posting last season.)

Even if he picks Clare, he still made her feel so small on the show. I have to say he protested way more though on social media about the photoshot with Victoria and I can't remember the other girl than the Claire incident IMO.

JBF wrote:


The fact that the pool and surfside "fun" could have easily been snipped by the editors only confirms to me that Clare is the only one Juan is in "cahoots" with post show, although he may also be visiting Nikki, Andi, Sharleen, Chelsie or anybody else as a "friend" to fool snoopers. (No, I have not read Reality Steve. Stopped reading him after one-too-many stupid homophobic emails he enjoyed posting last season.)

***snipped post***


The bolded is what give me great pause. The editors left all that in and could have done what I did to JBFs post - snipped it   

They didn't. It was all left in there.

Question to those that watched Bens season with Courtney : How much of a storyline were they starting to build around the same time in the season with Courtney ? Was it just drama with her or were there other conversations at all ?

Except for the princess and daddy talks in episode 1, I have seen absolutely no other conversations with Clare other then her insecurities, flirting and drama. In other words, I see no storyline at all.

Aunties_Love wrote:There doesn't seem to be too much love or understanding of tonight's situation for Clare here.  May I ask why it is felt that way and considering how Ben/Courtney time in the ocean was considered as being a clear F1 thing as many couldn't see how anyone else would end up as final 1, yet this time it is felt so certain that it isn't.  Could someone tell me why?  Thanks.  Just trying to get your views on it all.  Thanks.

The fact that he said it went too far and was a mistake says it all. Ben didn't say or do anything after he went skinny dipping with Courtney...and now we know why.

BTW, I really despise ABC's new viewing policy. I didn't get to see the entire episode and I would like to watch it.