Chris Discussion Group

i am sure all the F4 got "compensated" for the HTDs they had to prepared. Kyptin and Tenley had spilled this..as well as other contestants (the others escaping my mind at the moment  ).

grace8136 wrote:My comment and pondering was in reference to what Sfrank said. She was referring to Des getting paid a lot of money if she was pretending that Brooks was her first choice. Until we have real proof, I won't say it was fake, I just like to pile up some clues that it might have happened and if the pile gets big enough, we may have a stronger POV one way or the other. TPTB can't go into these seasons with no plan and hope there is drama because on many seasons it would be a straight forward love story which apparently is bad for ratings.  Chris' friend calls attention to the phrase.. "like 2 pot of golds in ur mouth... enough said." I feel like it was  about the situation, but the poetry book is an obvious perk and everyone knows Des gets paid, so why the elusive "enough said." Was there a bonus for that scene and an unspoiled season? One pot of gold in his mouth... Des, 2nd pot of gold.. bonus check. Could be nothing, could be something. I didn't mean to imply it was an answer, just found it curious. Hope that clears it up. :Smiley:

Other perks: more OFF camera time Des gained with Chris, more "overnights" with the possibility that Munich had one since Baseball Boy wasn't "worrying about the guys in the house" that night, more safe house time than any previous couple post-show, the possibility further-down-the-road of a paid wedding that she can design her gown for... etc.

The poetry book... and the read-aloud Barcelona poem... made ME (if not others) think Chris was NEVER a dumpee regardless of any Brooks "Blindside". It is also possible that this was planned with Zack early on as a way of countering The Edited Storyline, less for profit. (It may do well on Amazon, but will unlikely make the New York Times bestseller list.) Brooks benefited business-wise going along with it; his mother and sister making him look more genuine on screen so he won't be viewed as another Bentley. Win for Brooks. Win for Des and Chris. Win for Fleiss in putting Reality Steve in his place.

Speaking of Bentley, it is amusing that Brooks and Bryden both rode in one in episode #2... and both "pulled a Bentley" later. It was also turquoise, like the 1959 Cadillac that Frank rode in before his visit to the Hollywood sign in a previous episode #2. He also met with Harrison before dumping Ali at fantasy time and had an extended scene with his girlfriend resembling Brooks' family visit. Please tell me this was all simply coincidence and NOTHING was pre-planned. Isn't this show 100% reality?

Des LIKED (excuse me... lllluuuuuuuved) Brooks and enjoyed "being in the moment" (as both of them repeated episode after episode), but much of The Break Up anger might have been over her banking he would be an easier final two dumpee at FRC than Drew... who was dumped on his LCD like Emily did Arie and Ali did Chris Lambton. Ashley wanted to with Ben but wasn't permitted since he was successfully brainf***ed to get down on one knee while Constantine was bored-out-of-his-mind once his restaurant was promoted on hometown. Arie and Lambton were less likely to propose at FRC so it is easier to understand why Emily and Ali got their way, but Drew kept repeating he would on screen and commented at hometown that he would return "engaged". Technically Des would not have been allowed to, like Ashley, since Fleiss wants The Drama right up to the end. Was this another "perk"? It would also explain why she had to toss in that "blindsided" talk to get Chris temporarily nervous and upset as additional "suspense". (Note she says later "and I promise to tell you everything", probably to clear up what was for show and what was real.)

At the end of the day (I'm borrowing Bryden's favorite expression on screen), I still think Nate was THE biggest reason for a lot of the editing, along with Fleiss' wish to put Reality Steve in his place with a resulting couple who were confident enough to go along with false spoilers. Nate was against his sister hooking up with somebody on a TV show and getting married after a very short-term dating period ("settle for nobody"), much like Chrystie was with Ashley (and she gave JP plenty of trouble that Nate did NOT give Chris). He already sabotaged Sean's visit previously and I firmly suspect that the whole "slow burn"/"possible second choice" business was a way of downsizing a relationship that may have, in fact, exploded as early as night #1. Let me ask this: Would Chris be given a wedding dress-up date early in the season if Nate is against her marrying right away? Or/and would production use somebody like William Holman (who almost married Ashley in her episode #2) for that kind of date since "he wasn't ready for this" (per Chris quote in the finale)?

Note how they BURIED this relationship in the first three episodes and had Chris constantly say for the cameras hat he was a skeptic going into this. All he said in episode #1 after his impressive down-on-one-knee limo arrival was... "Seattle". (Molly's episode #1 sitdown with Jason was simply about her willingness to move to Seattle. Another Cute Little Coincidence from a season past.) In episode #2, he was fleetingly shown taking a seat with her as her face was kept hidden at all times... and in shadow so you can't see her facial expression. Why? If NOTHING was there and she was already gaga over Brooks or somebody else would it be necessary for such editing? The lop and chop on the dodgeball date, particularly the dance scene with Chris' face photoshopped with a silly blur at one point (freezeframe the shot after she says "quality time") and her face kept hidden at all times, was absolutely ridiculous. Heaven help us had we seen the moment she knew "sparks grew" on screen.

JBF, thanks for this totally believable scenario.

JBF- If they were following a storyline, Chris was not fully in on it or filled in on it until after the proposal IMO. He has such a dejected look on his face at one point on the boat to Madeira. But in the proposal, he says they shared their feeling in Madeira, probably in the garden after he told her he loved her she gave him some reassurance. Also, in Munich I will always want to know what she said while giving him the rose and then he said, "I'll pretend I didn't hear that, that's unmentionable, thank you thank you"

The editors did more work than he did.

He certainly wasn't fully aware of anything early in the season (i.e. he was like Jim Carrey in The Truman Show not understanding where that light-bulb fell from), which may explain why so much of his footage was cut out. Especially if the whole "skeptic coming into this" scenario is to be believed and he hardly looked skeptical in the beginning. No past F1 was so hidden in episode #1, not even Catherine. They still needed to blur his grin in the dance scene in episode #3... and hide her face as much as possible so she wouldn't look any more "animated" than she was with Brooks after his hospital return. Again, that episode's dodgeball date is worth analyzing frame by frame carefully.

The whispering in Munich was a real curio, but I think you nailed the words. It was not about The Rose with him even if he felt a week earlier that his poem might "earn" him one. Maybe she told him to think "future" and not roses? You know he didn't miss her facial reaction to his "Feelings eternal if you choose me". You do NOT see that expression on any of her other dates... in addition to her reaction to his ILY in Madeira.

Most of the PI sessions that look like he is trying to remember lines occur after Madeira, which makes me suspect either a.) he knew he was The One by that stage or b.) was willing to think so regardless of the potential heartbreak. He has huge grin on his face when Juan Pablo got sacked in Barcelona... and was looking at Brooks too grinning. In fact, he grins often when Brooks gets called in rose ceremonies. For some reason, he never looked that threatened by Brooks. Even in Madeira when he says he sees the connection, he says "I guess everyone should be somewhat nervous"... but there isn't a whole lot of nervousness in his voice or mannerisms.

Munich was what.. episode 5? Maybe she said, "you'll be getting many more of these (roses)" then you have them shhhhhhhing each other on the dance floor with the secret again.

His expression on the boat to Madeira did not look confident though. He drops his head like during the proposal. They can write PIs for him, but not those expressions, so they did a good job confusing us and apparently him to some extent if things were going so well between the two of them. I remain on the fence. I do think they have to manipulate the story for the sake of ratings, so all discussions of what really may have happened are interesting to me. I would so buy that book! Maybe once the show finally gets canceled all will be revealed.

Here’s the issue. Chris stated several times that what he shared with Des was not like the others, so SOMETHING made him feel like he was set apart from the pack. We have this PI session in Munich:

“I am slowly but certainly falling in love with Des and I think it’s mutual. She doesn’t have to say it. She can say it through her kisses. She can say it through her eyes. I know it is happening. This is real and this is happening.”

I hate going back and referencing Ashley’s season but that is the one I studied the most, sniffing out the voice-over “frankenbytes” and PI sessions that she had sporting her post-show TV Guide interview hair perm. They just changed her outfits (to match dates they were inserting the PIs into) but the backdrop and hair remained the same. Go figure.

(It was worse back in Trista’s season when Mom Roseanne commented how much she loved F2 Charlie during F1 Ryan’s visit… but wearing the exact same clothes as Charlie’s visit that was held before Ryan’s. The editors wouldn’t dare make that oopsie today, along with the re-looped episode #1 voice-over about Charlie “having That Look the moment he stepped out of the limo” on instant replay for five episodes straight.)

Like this season, we had a “sibling issue”, only Chrystie was skeptical of JP as well as The Process, which is technically Nate’s primary concern (not Chris this time).

Also like Chris, and unlike Catherine and a few other past F1s, JP seemed pretty confident early on of his pecking order. I think he was banking on Ryan getting that group rose in Phuket (episode #4) so the guys annoyed with him would just leave Dunkirk style and he could have Ashley all to himself. William was likely his biggest competition and, post-comedy roast, he was going through his Black Mood of no return. JP didn’t seem at all upset about the Bentley business... and even sported a smirk watching him leave and hug the dudes goodbye the previous week.

Good grief! That FRC with Des discussing “blindsided by Brooks” gave me déjà vu of… *gasp*... The Hong Kong Speech... with its commercial pause and Ashley worrying if this talk about Bentley’s return might “backfire”. Add to this the Bryden exit interrupting Chris’ date and forcing him to coax her to TALK about it at the beer joint. (Communication is important to every relationship, y’know.) It was as if both Bryden and Brooks were each taking turns replacing Bentley for leaving with his “dot-dot-dot” and coming back to Hong Kong to provide “the period” so our neurotic little lady can move forward in a “totally honest relationship”. All through this time, neither JP nor Chris is losing any sleep… or at least writing poems when they can’t.

Although he mentions the possibility of her having feelings for somebody else going into the FRC, Chris says “I will be shocked if something today got in the way of the relationship Des and I have built”… not somebody… something. He looked just plain exhausted of Fleiss & Co. tossing him more broken wheels and axel rims on the highway to bliss…. Like “NOW what are they going to shove me? Enough is enough!” JP looked the same on his FRC... he had enough of Bentley, Chrystie screwing with Ashley's mind and all of this implied "overnight action" with Benny Boy Flajnik in Taiwan and Fiji. He knew she was going to pick him regardless, but he wasn't ready for yet another "now what's the matter?" after her boo-hoo after Benny Boy's rage at his dumping.

Come to think of it, both JP and Chris walked much the same going into the FRC…. "hurry up and get this silly show over with. We are moving to Seattle come August!"

JBF wrote:Here’s the issue. Chris stated several times that what he shared with Des was not like the others, so SOMETHING made him feel like he was set apart from the pack. We have this PI session in Munich:

“I am slowly but certainly falling in love with Des and I think it’s mutual. She doesn’t have to say it. She can say it through her kisses. She can say it through her eyes. I know it is happening. This is real and this is happening.”

I hate going back and referencing Ashley’s season but that is the one I studied the most, sniffing out the voice-over “frankenbytes” and PI sessions that she had sporting her post-show TV Guide interview hair perm. They just changed her outfits (to match dates they were inserting the PIs into) but the backdrop and hair remained the same. Go figure.

(It was worse back in Trista’s season when Mom Roseanne commented how much she loved F2 Charlie during F1 Ryan’s visit… but wearing the exact same clothes as Charlie’s visit that was held before Ryan’s. The editors wouldn’t dare make that oopsie today, along with the re-looped episode #1 voice-over about Charlie “having That Look the moment he stepped out of the limo” on instant replay for five episodes straight.)

Like this season, we had a “sibling issue”, only Chrystie was skeptical of JP as well as The Process, which is technically Nate’s primary concern (not Chris this time).

Also like Chris, and unlike Catherine and a few other past F1s, JP seemed pretty confident early on of his pecking order. I think he was banking on Ryan getting that group rose in Phuket (episode #4) so the guys annoyed with him would just leave Dunkirk style and he could have Ashley all to himself. William was likely his biggest competition and, post-comedy roast, he was going through his Black Mood of no return. JP didn’t seem at all upset about the Bentley business... and even sported a smirk watching him leave and hug the dudes goodbye the previous week.

Good grief! That FRC with Des discussing “blindsided by Brooks” gave me déjà vu of… *gasp*... The Hong Kong Speech... with its commercial pause and Ashley worrying if this talk about Bentley’s return might “backfire”. Add to this the Bryden exit interrupting Chris’ date and forcing him to coax her to TALK about it at the beer joint. (Communication is important to every relationship, y’know.) It was as if both Bryden and Brooks were each taking turns replacing Bentley for leaving with his “dot-dot-dot” and coming back to Hong Kong to provide “the period” so our neurotic little lady can move forward in a “totally honest relationship”. All through this time, neither JP nor Chris is losing any sleep… or at least writing poems when they can’t.

Although he mentions the possibility of her having feelings for somebody else going into the FRC, Chris says “I will be shocked if something today got in the way of the relationship Des and I have built”… not somebody… something. He looked just plain exhausted of Fleiss & Co. tossing him more broken wheels and axel rims on the highway to bliss…. Like “NOW what are they going to shove me? Enough is enough!” JP looked the same on his FRC... he had enough of Bentley, Chrystie screwing with Ashley's mind and all of this implied "overnight action" with Benny Boy Flajnik in Taiwan and Fiji. He knew she was going to pick him regardless, but he wasn't ready for yet another "now what's the matter?" after her boo-hoo after Benny Boy's rage at his dumping.

Come to think of it, both JP and Chris walked much the same going into the FRC…. "hurry up and get this silly show over with. We are moving to Seattle come August!"

Love it!!     Please tell me you will be around during Juan Pablo's show!  I also loved JP and Ashley's season.  The similarities are there for sure.  I made the mistake of checking in on the Brooks thread. Oh boy, not fun!  I mean some are still missing the "love story" between Brooks and Des???  What love story?  Some think she moved to Seattle just to prove to herself and others that it is real!  They can't accept the fact Des loves Chris an they are doing so well and loving life and each other.


Yes she was infatuated with other men on the show, but do two people actually fall in love on the show?  It is debatable I guess. IMO  I don't think so but I think there can be a strong connection and what happens after the cameras is what matters. True love and compatibility are what Des and Chris share now. It was meant to be (their words not mine, but I agree!).  I love the fact they enjoy each other so much! So important!  Chris and des seem soooo happy now!  I really hope they follow in Ashley and JP's footsteps and get married!  

Thanks again JBF!  Love the thoughts and discussions here!

[quote="grace8136"]JBF- If they were following a storyline, Chris was not fully in on it or filled in on it until after the proposal IMO. He has such a dejected look on his face at one point on the boat to Madeira. But in the proposal, he says they shared their feeling in Madeira, probably in the garden after he told her he loved her she gave him some reassurance. Also, in Munich I will always want to know what she said while giving him the rose and then he said, "I'll pretend I didn't hear that, that's unmentionable, thank you thank you"


I just watched the date in Madeira again and I didn't see the point where he looked dejected.  Can you point me to that part please?
Thanks

It's shocking what is being said in some other threads !!:shocked!: :shocked!: :shocked!:  I need to stay on the positive threads about Chris and Des! Okay back to this awesome discussion thread. Keep the thoughts and opinions coming! Btw.... Love Chris's latest tweet! He's a keeper for sure! Glad Des knows it too!! ;)

eliza3 wrote:

grace8136 wrote:JBF- If they were following a storyline, Chris was not fully in on it or filled in on it until after the proposal IMO. He has such a dejected look on his face at one point on the boat to Madeira. But in the proposal, he says they shared their feeling in Madeira, probably in the garden after he told her he loved her she gave him some reassurance. Also, in Munich I will always want to know what she said while giving him the rose and then he said, "I'll pretend I didn't hear that, that's unmentionable, thank you thank you"


I just watched the date in Madeira again and I didn't see the point where he looked dejected.  Can you point me to that part please?
Thanks

Not on their date, on the boat to Madeira. Sorry for the confusion. Start around 1:12.  Another semi-interesting thing was that Brooks and Drew sat down with their legs hanging over the edge, leaving Des and Chris in the same spot as before.

Grace8136, Chris always looks like that when he has "to share my time with Des"... LOL! Going to the yacht he was so happy she was "all mine". Go! Go! Go! Mine! Mine! Mine!

Hey, soccermom, everybody views these shows with different glasses... and I always liked Brooks even if I didn't quite see "IT" between him and Des like I did with Baseball Boy.

Funny thing... looking back at this silly and weird season:

I initially thought, after Reality Steve unveiled the first 20 or so guys, that Zack Kalter would be F1. We officially learned he got the sack... two weeks after Atlantic City.

Then I moved on to the other baseball dude Chris (since Des had a "fetish" for those) with Drew as my second choice.

I actually tried my best to believe the spoilers were right after Reality Steve confirmed them, but was struggling a lot with the EDIT... not so much with Brooks himself. When murasaki PMed me asking if it was silly to keep championing Chris, I said "why not... as long as you aren't upset if the spoilers are right". Yet even I couldn't stop scratching my head by episode #3.

Episode #5 and her "He's everything that I could want in a husband" is what convinced me the spoiler sources were fleissed and I was stuck on Chris as F1 from then on.

Went over my messages stash...

Late in the season we had that additional spoiler confirming RS was right about Brooks as F1 and mursaki PMed me on August 1st:

"this sucks...but on the brighter side, i just wanna say, its been an awesome ride enjoying this season with you."

I responded with the following:

Every season we get curve-balls trying to confuse everybody...

NO. I do not believe Brooks is F1... YET.

I need more evidence than any spoiler that Mike Fleiss can easily fake.

Here is brother Nate on twitter and from the sound of it, he is NOT seeing Brooks as F1 here any more than I am.

Yesterday…. Big Brother

Mark Doucette ‏@MDoucette12
@nate_hartsock83 How bad do you wanna fight Brooks after watching him ditch desiree?

Nathanael Hartsock ‏@nate_hartsock83
@MDoucette12 Not at all, at least it seemed like he was telling the truth. He just wasn't that into her, like she was into him.

Today

Melanie Madrid ‏@MelanieNmm 20h
@nate_hartsock83 @MDoucette12 Did you see the video footage of his return next week? Is it accurate?

Nathanael Hartsock ‏@nate_hartsock83
@MelanieNmm No, I didn't see any video of his return..

Sooooooooooo... let everybody on the forum believe what they want. If you like, you can prepare yourself for Chris getting dumped if it makes you feel nervous.

I still follow that motto: "let everybody on the forum believe what they want." I don't debate with people. I will give my reasons why I believe what I believe, but I am not that stubborn not to read what the opposition has to say... since, yes, I am wrong many times.

Now... as fate would have it, the day before finale time, the dude I initially thought would be F1 back in April... Zack Kalter... responded to Chris' instagram poem agreeing with another response that he was looking forward to watching Chris' proposal tomorrow. That was The Clue that another contestant KNEW the end result ahead of time... or was pretty confident in his "vibe".

So this whole silly season came full circle for me... LOL! Of course, I would have never guessed he would be involved in that poetry book as well...