The Bachelorette 9 - General Discussion - News/Updates

Sprite wrote:

Relalou wrote:

IrishGal wrote:I respect what you both are saying. And I really don't have a stake in this because I  never had a strong favorite.  But I do think JBF made a great point. If Chris had been the spoiled F1 all along, wouldn't we have written off her histrionics as just bad acting/stress the way we did with Ash and Ali? For all we know, they make all the leads confess love for all the F3 so they can edit the way they wish depending on the end? For all we know Ali told CH that she was in love with Frank.  She certainly reacted as if her heart was devestated and she couldn't go on.  We just do not know what machinations go on behind the scenes. This season they were all about the false spoiler so they chose to skewer Des and Chris and make them look foolish in order to mislead us all. I'm inclined to think she wouldn't uproot her life and move just to save face.  Why would she?  She doesn't care what we think! I just keep hoping some day one of the contestants will have the guts to really write a tell-all.

Nice post Irishgirl!  I understand where the posts above are coming from but we have to remember that (1) we are making judgments based upon a highly edited version of events.  We are all aware of scenes we never saw.
I was rewatching the proposal and was struck by a couple of things.  First, Chris stated in an interview that he didn't think she had chosen Drew because of the way she kissed him when he arrived.  Well we didn't see any such kiss because... it would have given away the ending.  Then, during the proposal when Des pulls Chris back to his feet I am pretty sure that they put in the whole "I need to let you know where my heart has been... et I let Drew go" piece from elsewhere - probably later in the discussion. As she pulls him up she is distraught and again she is broken up when talking about being blindsided by her feelings for Brooks, but for this middle bit her voice is different and she is calm.  Why does this matter?  Because I'm pretty sure that she gave a much longer, more thorough, rambling explanation of her feelings for Brooks to Chris but that the producers just put in piece to link things together and keep it within their time and story line.
(2) Desiree is not us and she seems to be highly emotional - she was upset by Bryden leaving, cried when she heard about James, etc, and she certainly wasn't in love with either.  She heard from Brooks, who she clearly cared for (as much as one can after 4 dates or so) and had a melt down.  Then she brushed herself off, squared her shoulders and realized there was another great guy in front of her who broke her pattern of falling for the guy who could love her enough...
Could I do it, probably not (although who knows what dating 25 guys would do to my headspace!) but I also can't presume to judge the depth of her feelings either.
Again, JMO

Ali and Ashley are two totally different scenarios in my mind. It was clear from the get go that Ali was all over Roberto ... remember that SEXXXY! after she met him? She was really into him from the start. Frank was her typical guy (see her current boyfriend), but, Robertoooo was who she aspired to. Not saying that she wasn't into Frank, or that his leaving didn't hurt, but, to me that was more of if he is dumping me, than what will Robertooooo do? Also, Ali was willing to play along with producers...remember that crying fit in the hallway over Jake the fake who she could have cared less about? There is a reason she is one of their favourites. Ashley was attracted to Bentley, but he left early and there was JP waiting with their first date. I think she had already been primed by the powers that be and William, to feel insecure. Did these guys really want her or Emily? JP had more than enough time to help her sort things out and come to the best conclusion. It has nothing to do with knowing the spoilers. Yes, producers may ask the same questions about all the guys and only to show certain things to best serve the story line, but they do not skewer their leads like this if they have faith in the relationship. Remember Jake and Vienna, Jillian and Ed, Ben and Courtney? They did go to town on Ashley but they gave her plenty of time to redeem herself in the viewers eyes. Des, not so much. And then there was the nose adjustment for Chris??? Not the stellar knight on a white horse rescuing his damsel edit they gave JP, but, just subtle digs at Chris.

I also have to disagree with Des being highly emotional. I did not get that vibe from her at all...until Brooks left. Bryden, Brian, Ben, even Jamalles...she just seem to brush them off and just continue along her merry way. She was quite calm and far from emotional to me...until Brooks left. The one scene in particular that sticks out to me was the talk she had with Chris pre Brooks leaving. Of course they were priming us for his dramatic exit but, CH had gotten her to admit that she was in love with Brooks....and then CH did some more poking and managed to get a half hearted...yeah, I'm falling for Chris too. That was such an after thought and very reluctantly given with practically no emotion whatsoever. The fact that she still continues to say that she still doesn't know what would have happened if Brooks had stayed, makes me doubt her judgement and frankly, her empathy towards the man she now conviniently says she loves.

I have nothing against her...or any of them. If she is happy...good for her. I hope they all find happiness, I just find myself more that usually sceptical with the sudden turn around in her affections. If they make it, I really think it will be because of Chris, but, I find myself questioning both their judgement this season...of course, I usually question peoples judgement when they decide to go on this show in the first place and my own for watching, so make of it what you will. As always, time will tell.

Sprite wrote:

Relalou wrote:

IrishGal wrote:I respect what you both are saying. And I really don't have a stake in this because I  never had a strong favorite.  But I do think JBF made a great point. If Chris had been the spoiled F1 all along, wouldn't we have written off her histrionics as just bad acting/stress the way we did with Ash and Ali? For all we know, they make all the leads confess love for all the F3 so they can edit the way they wish depending on the end? For all we know Ali told CH that she was in love with Frank.  She certainly reacted as if her heart was devestated and she couldn't go on.  We just do not know what machinations go on behind the scenes. This season they were all about the false spoiler so they chose to skewer Des and Chris and make them look foolish in order to mislead us all. I'm inclined to think she wouldn't uproot her life and move just to save face.  Why would she?  She doesn't care what we think! I just keep hoping some day one of the contestants will have the guts to really write a tell-all.

Nice post Irishgirl!  I understand where the posts above are coming from but we have to remember that (1) we are making judgments based upon a highly edited version of events.  We are all aware of scenes we never saw.
I was rewatching the proposal and was struck by a couple of things.  First, Chris stated in an interview that he didn't think she had chosen Drew because of the way she kissed him when he arrived.  Well we didn't see any such kiss because... it would have given away the ending.  Then, during the proposal when Des pulls Chris back to his feet I am pretty sure that they put in the whole "I need to let you know where my heart has been... et I let Drew go" piece from elsewhere - probably later in the discussion. As she pulls him up she is distraught and again she is broken up when talking about being blindsided by her feelings for Brooks, but for this middle bit her voice is different and she is calm.  Why does this matter?  Because I'm pretty sure that she gave a much longer, more thorough, rambling explanation of her feelings for Brooks to Chris but that the producers just put in piece to link things together and keep it within their time and story line.
(2) Desiree is not us and she seems to be highly emotional - she was upset by Bryden leaving, cried when she heard about James, etc, and she certainly wasn't in love with either.  She heard from Brooks, who she clearly cared for (as much as one can after 4 dates or so) and had a melt down.  Then she brushed herself off, squared her shoulders and realized there was another great guy in front of her who broke her pattern of falling for the guy who could love her enough...
Could I do it, probably not (although who knows what dating 25 guys would do to my headspace!) but I also can't presume to judge the depth of her feelings either.
Again, JMO

Ali and Ashley are two totally different scenarios in my mind. It was clear from the get go that Ali was all over Roberto ... remember that SEXXXY! after she met him? She was really into him from the start. Frank was her typical guy (see her current boyfriend), but, Robertoooo was who she aspired to. Not saying that she wasn't into Frank, or that his leaving didn't hurt, but, to me that was more of if he is dumping me, than what will Robertooooo do? Also, Ali was willing to play along with producers...remember that crying fit in the hallway over Jake the fake who she could have cared less about? There is a reason she is one of their favourites. Ashley was attracted to Bentley, but he left early and there was JP waiting with their first date. I think she had already been primed by the powers that be and William, to feel insecure. Did these guys really want her or Emily? JP had more than enough time to help her sort things out and come to the best conclusion. It has nothing to do with knowing the spoilers. Yes, producers may ask the same questions about all the guys and only to show certain things to best serve the story line, but they do not skewer their leads like this if they have faith in the relationship. Remember Jake and Vienna, Jillian and Ed, Ben and Courtney? They did go to town on Ashley but they gave her plenty of time to redeem herself in the viewers eyes. Des, not so much. And then there was the nose adjustment for Chris??? Not the stellar knight on a white horse rescuing his damsel edit they gave JP, but, just subtle digs at Chris.

I also have to disagree with Des being highly emotional. I did not get that vibe from her at all...until Brooks left. Bryden, Brian, Ben, even James...she just seem to brush them off and just continue along her merry way. She was quite calm and far from emotional to me...until Brooks left. The one scene in particular that sticks out to me was the talk she had with Chris pre Brooks leaving. Of course they were priming us for his dramatic exit but, CH had gotten her to admit that she was in love with Brooks....and then CH did some more poking and managed to get a half hearted...yeah, I'm falling for Chris too. That was such an after thought and very reluctantly given with practically no emotion whatsoever. The fact that she still continues to say that she still doesn't know what would have happened if Brooks had stayed, makes me doubt her judgement and frankly, her empathy towards the man she now conviniently says she loves.

I have nothing against her...or any of them. If she is happy...good for her. I hope they all find happiness, I just find myself more that usually sceptical with the sudden turn around in her affections. If they make it, I really think it will be because of Chris, but, I find myself questioning both their judgement this season...of course, I usually question peoples judgement when they decide to go on this show in the first place and my own for watching, so make of it what you will. As always, time will tell.

Karen5354 wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Relalou wrote:

IrishGal wrote:I respect what you both are saying. And I really don't have a stake in this because I  never had a strong favorite.  But I do think JBF made a great point. If Chris had been the spoiled F1 all along, wouldn't we have written off her histrionics as just bad acting/stress the way we did with Ash and Ali? For all we know, they make all the leads confess love for all the F3 so they can edit the way they wish depending on the end? For all we know Ali told CH that she was in love with Frank.  She certainly reacted as if her heart was devestated and she couldn't go on.  We just do not know what machinations go on behind the scenes. This season they were all about the false spoiler so they chose to skewer Des and Chris and make them look foolish in order to mislead us all. I'm inclined to think she wouldn't uproot her life and move just to save face.  Why would she?  She doesn't care what we think! I just keep hoping some day one of the contestants will have the guts to really write a tell-all.

Nice post Irishgirl!  I understand where the posts above are coming from but we have to remember that (1) we are making judgments based upon a highly edited version of events.  We are all aware of scenes we never saw.
I was rewatching the proposal and was struck by a couple of things.  First, Chris stated in an interview that he didn't think she had chosen Drew because of the way she kissed him when he arrived.  Well we didn't see any such kiss because... it would have given away the ending.  Then, during the proposal when Des pulls Chris back to his feet I am pretty sure that they put in the whole "I need to let you know where my heart has been... et I let Drew go" piece from elsewhere - probably later in the discussion. As she pulls him up she is distraught and again she is broken up when talking about being blindsided by her feelings for Brooks, but for this middle bit her voice is different and she is calm.  Why does this matter?  Because I'm pretty sure that she gave a much longer, more thorough, rambling explanation of her feelings for Brooks to Chris but that the producers just put in piece to link things together and keep it within their time and story line.
(2) Desiree is not us and she seems to be highly emotional - she was upset by Bryden leaving, cried when she heard about James, etc, and she certainly wasn't in love with either.  She heard from Brooks, who she clearly cared for (as much as one can after 4 dates or so) and had a melt down.  Then she brushed herself off, squared her shoulders and realized there was another great guy in front of her who broke her pattern of falling for the guy who could love her enough...
Could I do it, probably not (although who knows what dating 25 guys would do to my headspace!) but I also can't presume to judge the depth of her feelings either.
Again, JMO

Ali and Ashley are two totally different scenarios in my mind. It was clear from the get go that Ali was all over Roberto ... remember that SEXXXY! after she met him? She was really into him from the start. Frank was her typical guy (see her current boyfriend), but, Robertoooo was who she aspired to. Not saying that she wasn't into Frank, or that his leaving didn't hurt, but, to me that was more of if he is dumping me, than what will Robertooooo do? Also, Ali was willing to play along with producers...remember that crying fit in the hallway over Jake the fake who she could have cared less about? There is a reason she is one of their favourites. Ashley was attracted to Bentley, but he left early and there was JP waiting with their first date. I think she had already been primed by the powers that be and William, to feel insecure. Did these guys really want her or Emily? JP had more than enough time to help her sort things out and come to the best conclusion. It has nothing to do with knowing the spoilers. Yes, producers may ask the same questions about all the guys and only to show certain things to best serve the story line, but they do not skewer their leads like this if they have faith in the relationship. Remember Jake and Vienna, Jillian and Ed, Ben and Courtney? They did go to town on Ashley but they gave her plenty of time to redeem herself in the viewers eyes. Des, not so much. And then there was the nose adjustment for Chris??? Not the stellar knight on a white horse rescuing his damsel edit they gave JP, but, just subtle digs at Chris.

I also have to disagree with Des being highly emotional. I did not get that vibe from her at all...until Brooks left. Bryden, Brian, Ben, even James...she just seem to brush them off and just continue along her merry way. She was quite calm and far from emotional to me...until Brooks left. The one scene in particular that sticks out to me was the talk she had with Chris pre Brooks leaving. Of course they were priming us for his dramatic exit but, CH had gotten her to admit that she was in love with Brooks....and then CH did some more poking and managed to get a half hearted...yeah, I'm falling for Chris too. That was such an after thought and very reluctantly given with practically no emotion whatsoever. The fact that she still continues to say that she still doesn't know what would have happened if Brooks had stayed, makes me doubt her judgement and frankly, her empathy towards the man she now conviniently says she loves.

I have nothing against her...or any of them. If she is happy...good for her. I hope they all find happiness, I just find myself more that usually sceptical with the sudden turn around in her affections. If they make it, I really think it will be because of Chris, but, I find myself questioning both their judgement this season...of course, I usually question peoples judgement when they decide to go on this show in the first place and my own for watching, so make of it what you will. As always, time will tell.

I don't really care much about Des or this season, but seeing that hostility is building between the Chris/Brooks fans, I commend you, Sprite, for this objective and sound post.     

BachfanNY wrote:I'm one of the ones who believed the spoiler and skipped over any dates with Chris or anyone else who wasn't Brooks. Only because I didn't want to waste my time watching Des get all smoochie with someone she wasn't going to end up with. yuck.

I do regret not watching her dates with Chris, now that I look back, it was so obvious he was her match. Des had a couple of "A-HA" moments during her LCD with Chris. You could see the wheels turning in her head.  I think she was fighting/ignoring what was happening with Chris because of her infatuation with Brooks. Her final blog pretty much confirmes that.

When she said "how could i not have loved him from the start" that was all I needed to hear. I thought right then she should have just called Brooks and THANKED HIM for leaving!

Sprite wrote:I appreciate those who saw the love story that is Chris and Des. I personally did not and found it all just a little too convinient. Des was a bad actress during the whole show. She expressed little emotion or excitement during all those pivotal, producer manipulated, high drama moments with all the various guys...Ben, Brydon, Brian, James. That is why, when she had the melt down with Brooks, I actually believed her. That was real emotion. Yes, it may have been caused partially because she was tired and manipulated, but, she herself has admitted...repeatedly...that she was in love with the man and to this day doesn't know what would have happened had he stayed. (Neither Ali or Ashley said anything of the kind regarding Frank or Bentley.) She did. Producers showed it for a reason. Say what you will about their sleezy methods, but, they are good at what they do and they see and know everything that goes on...hence showing us what they do. It's kind of a bone to us viewers hinting of what they think of this relationship.

I still think she is trying to talk herself into this relationship and trying to save face because she doesn't want to be alone. If she had just said, I don't want to get engaged, I want to have this develop because I was so confused and I want to make sure I have a clear head, I would have said cudos to her. She didn't. She continues to maintain...with little regard to Chris and his feelings in my opinion...that if Brooks had stayed she doesn't know what would have happened and who she would have picked. Very telling and rather sad.

As for the fighting between various fan factions...well, I've been around too long, learning from the best as to how this show works/manipulates... to get all worked up about it on a personal level. Nobody is as bad or as good as portrayed and I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt...in real life and particularly on this show. I still have my favourites sometimes, but even then, I like to think that I can remain objective for the most part. The old timers like to snark and once people get all hot and bothered, usually know to stay out of the line of fire.

Sprite wrote:I appreciate those who saw the love story that is Chris and Des. I personally did not and found it all just a little too convinient. Des was a bad actress during the whole show. She expressed little emotion or excitement during all those pivotal, producer manipulated, high drama moments with all the various guys...Ben, Brydon, Brian, James. That is why, when she had the melt down with Brooks, I actually believed her. That was real emotion. Yes, it may have been caused partially because she was tired and manipulated, but, she herself has admitted...repeatedly...that she was in love with the man and to this day doesn't know what would have happened had he stayed. (Neither Ali or Ashley said anything of the kind regarding Frank or Bentley.) She did. Producers showed it for a reason. Say what you will about their sleezy methods, but, they are good at what they do and they see and know everything that goes on...hence showing us what they do. It's kind of a bone to us viewers hinting of what they think of this relationship.

I still think she is trying to talk herself into this relationship and trying to save face because she doesn't want to be alone. If she had just said, I don't want to get engaged, I want to have this develop because I was so confused and I want to make sure I have a clear head, I would have said cudos to her. She didn't. She continues to maintain...with little regard to Chris and his feelings in my opinion...that if Brooks had stayed she doesn't know what would have happened and who she would have picked. Very telling and rather sad.

As for the fighting between various fan factions...well, I've been around too long, learning from the best as to how this show works/manipulates... to get all worked up about it on a personal level. Nobody is as bad or as good as portrayed and I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt...in real life and particularly on this show. I still have my favourites sometimes, but even then, I like to think that I can remain objective for the most part. The old timers like to snark and once people get all hot and bothered, usually know to stay out of the line of fire.

IrishGal wrote:I respect what you both are saying. And I really don't have a stake in this because I  never had a strong favorite.  But I do think JBF made a great point. If Chris had been the spoiled F1 all along, wouldn't we have written off her histrionics as just bad acting/stress the way we did with Ash and Ali? For all we know, they make all the leads confess love for all the F3 so they can edit the way they wish depending on the end? For all we know Ali told CH that she was in love with Frank.  She certainly reacted as if her heart was devestated and she couldn't go on.  We just do not know what machinations go on behind the scenes. This season they were all about the false spoiler so they chose to skewer Des and Chris and make them look foolish in order to mislead us all. I'm inclined to think she wouldn't uproot her life and move just to save face.  Why would she?  She doesn't care what we think! I just keep hoping some day one of the contestants will have the guts to really write a tell-all.

Sprite wrote:I appreciate those who saw the love story that is Chris and Des. I personally did not and found it all just a little too convinient. Des was a bad actress during the whole show. She expressed little emotion or excitement during all those pivotal, producer manipulated, high drama moments with all the various guys...Ben, Brydon, Brian, James. That is why, when she had the melt down with Brooks, I actually believed her. That was real emotion. Yes, it may have been caused partially because she was tired and manipulated, but, she herself has admitted...repeatedly...that she was in love with the man and to this day doesn't know what would have happened had he stayed. (Neither Ali or Ashley said anything of the kind regarding Frank or Bentley.) She did. Producers showed it for a reason. Say what you will about their sleezy methods, but, they are good at what they do and they see and know everything that goes on...hence showing us what they do. It's kind of a bone to us viewers hinting of what they think of this relationship.

I still think she is trying to talk herself into this relationship and trying to save face because she doesn't want to be alone. If she had just said, I don't want to get engaged, I want to have this develop because I was so confused and I want to make sure I have a clear head, I would have said cudos to her. She didn't. She continues to maintain...with little regard to Chris and his feelings in my opinion...that if Brooks had stayed she doesn't know what would have happened and who she would have picked. Very telling and rather sad.

As for the fighting between various fan factions...well, I've been around too long, learning from the best as to how this show works/manipulates... to get all worked up about it on a personal level. Nobody is as bad or as good as portrayed and I'm usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt...in real life and particularly on this show. I still have my favourites sometimes, but even then, I like to think that I can remain objective for the most part. The old timers like to snark and once people get all hot and bothered, usually know to stay out of the line of fire.