ATFR (Live) - 8/05 - Bachelorette 9 - Discussion and Spoilers

relaxing wrote:

Beeleever wrote:I've been holding back (imagine that) but here goes:

I don't believe for one minute that Des can feel total devastation one day, and say:

~I love you and you're the only one I can say that to.
~I don't care that you just broke my heart, I love you.
~I was conflicted because I didn't want to share my heart. I wanted to give it to you.
~When I was going on dates I wanted to go on dates with you, that's why I was conflicted.
~This sucks. I've done everything alone and that's why I was hoping to meet someone to share my life with.
~I just can't love them as much as I know I have to give. And that's not what they deserve.
~Honestly for me, it's over.
~I just want to go home.

and then magically go on one date with Chris and flip it around.

Her answer to that question today? The process is accelerated. That's how she can do it.  

There is a reason Chris is not watching that break-up with Brooks. He is clueless and can't even understand why everyone is asking him how he feels about it on the talk show circuit. Is that a good way to start a relationship? The past makes us who we are. Hiding it is not the answer. Everyone around them is talking about it and they are just going to pretend like it never happened?

I know Chris is a great guy and I know Des had feelings for him. But it is a complete dishonor to him to accept a proposal after what she just went through a few days before and think people are going to buy into it.

When your heart is broken, it takes time to heal. You can't give a broken heart to someone else to heal. You have to heal it yourself before you can give it away again. I don't care how "accelerated" the process is. One LCD date and a few MTP hours is not enough time.

I do wish them well. I hope they can move out of the limelight. It's the only way they have a chance.

 The FRC and media today were so awkward, uncomfortable and sad to me.  There is nothing vague or unclear in those words Bee quoted. We all heard them. I've seen a glow in Des often before just as the person she is,  her smile and zest for life, not even connected to a guy,  but sure didn't last night or today.  Maybe it will come slowly with time.  I wish her all the happiness in the world.  

She definitely said all those things and probably felt them to be her true feelings in the moment but IMO it's just like teenagers screaming they hate their parents, want to die, run away, blow up the school or whatever, whatever, whatever. They may feel it when Mom and Dad ground them from the iPad but in reality, it's just a splash of emotions going crazy.

She was hurt and felt betrayed and said all those things, and couple that with her understanding of what love is supposed to be like with feeling unloved, insecure, and unwanted, she freaked out and went nuts. Once she calmed down, she realized that love is the guy that is always there for you that matters, and not the spark she felt with Brooks, which didn't matter since he never wanted her anyway. She seems to understand it now and appreciates and loves the man who wants to be her rock no matter the waves around them.

I also attribute this situation to Ali's and basically echo everything nd posted upthread, except with a caveat. As similar as these situations are and to me, they're bordering on identical, I think the outcomes will be different. Ali had an agenda to be a STAR which Roberto didn't fit and she had many, many previous boyfriends so it wasn't her first rodeo into charming a guy and doing what she wants. I put Des more into the Jillian and Ashley category of women, who don't know their female prowess exists or they don't know how to use it, so I think she'll stick around with Chris instead of running off into LA chasing over Brooks' clone. Like everyone says though, time will tell!

Beeleever wrote:I've been holding back (imagine that) but here goes:

I don't believe for one minute that Des can feel total devastation one day, and say:

~I love you and you're the only one I can say that to.
~I don't care that you just broke my heart, I love you.
~I was conflicted because I didn't want to share my heart. I wanted to give it to you.
~When I was going on dates I wanted to go on dates with you, that's why I was conflicted.
~This sucks. I've done everything alone and that's why I was hoping to meet someone to share my life with.
~I just can't love them as much as I know I have to give. And that's not what they deserve.
~Honestly for me, it's over.
~I just want to go home.

and then magically go on one date with Chris and flip it around.

Her answer to that question today? The process is accelerated. That's how she can do it.  

There is a reason Chris is not watching that break-up with Brooks. He is clueless and can't even understand why everyone is asking him how he feels about it on the talk show circuit. Is that a good way to start a relationship? The past makes us who we are. Hiding it is not the answer. Everyone around them is talking about it and they are just going to pretend like it never happened?

I know Chris is a great guy and I know Des had feelings for him. But it is a complete dishonor to him to accept a proposal after what she just went through a few days before and think people are going to buy into it.

When your heart is broken, it takes time to heal. You can't give a broken heart to someone else to heal. You have to heal it yourself before you can give it away again. I don't care how "accelerated" the process is. One LCD date and a few MTP hours is not enough time.

I do wish them well. I hope they can move out of the limelight. It's the only way they have a chance.

I agree w/first part- at least for me, I wouldn't be able to turn around so fast, however I have 1 friend who that happened to and she got engaged and married really quick after being in love with another guy who she wanted to get married to.

I do think that Chris will watch eventually.. this just might not be the time. I agree the past is what makes us who we are, but the past doesn't have to be spilled right away if they aren't meant to. In reality they're just building their relationship.

I believe Chris said he watched some of the breakup scene, just not all of it.

california90 wrote:

Beeleever wrote:I've been holding back (imagine that) but here goes:

I don't believe for one minute that Des can feel total devastation one day, and say:

~I love you and you're the only one I can say that to.
~I don't care that you just broke my heart, I love you.
~I was conflicted because I didn't want to share my heart. I wanted to give it to you.
~When I was going on dates I wanted to go on dates with you, that's why I was conflicted.
~This sucks. I've done everything alone and that's why I was hoping to meet someone to share my life with.
~I just can't love them as much as I know I have to give. And that's not what they deserve.
~Honestly for me, it's over.
~I just want to go home.

and then magically go on one date with Chris and flip it around.

Her answer to that question today? The process is accelerated. That's how she can do it.  

There is a reason Chris is not watching that break-up with Brooks. He is clueless and can't even understand why everyone is asking him how he feels about it on the talk show circuit. Is that a good way to start a relationship? The past makes us who we are. Hiding it is not the answer. Everyone around them is talking about it and they are just going to pretend like it never happened?

I know Chris is a great guy and I know Des had feelings for him. But it is a complete dishonor to him to accept a proposal after what she just went through a few days before and think people are going to buy into it.

When your heart is broken, it takes time to heal. You can't give a broken heart to someone else to heal. You have to heal it yourself before you can give it away again. I don't care how "accelerated" the process is. One LCD date and a few MTP hours is not enough time.

I do wish them well. I hope they can move out of the limelight. It's the only way they have a chance.

I agree w/first part- at least for me, I wouldn't be able to turn around so fast, however I have 1 friend who that happened to and she got engaged and married really quick after being in love with another guy who she wanted to get married to.

I do think that Chris will watch eventually.. this just might not be the time. I agree the past is what makes us who we are, but the past doesn't have to be spilled right away if they aren't meant to. In reality they're just building their relationship.

california...I'm speaking to the engagement taking place only a few days after she openly declared all the above stated things. They were being made fun of all over the media today as well as on social media and blogs. I think people would have more respect for the situation had they agreed to date and then get engaged at the AFR. That would have been more plausible in the public's mind.

It seemed like Chris was blindsided today with everyone asking him about how he felt about watching last week's break-up and he didn't know what they were talking about. Saying they've decided not to watch it appeared that they were burying their heads in the sand instead of facing and dealing with it. I get that they are just building their relationship and that's why I personally think it's important to work through it. But that is just me and I'm okay that other people deal with things differently.

As for now, they have as good a chance as anyone to make it from this show. Even Chris Harrison said the odds are against them. But the fact that Des is moving to Seattle and they want to focus on the relationship is a good thing. I do wish them the best and hope it does work out.

Despite what is being stated on other threads, I am not a naysayer and I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm trying to respectfully state the way I feel and that's what this board is all about. Not bashing those with a difference of opinion. Thanks for sharing your perspective and allowing me to share mine.

I agree- but its the bachelor.. I wouldn't expect it to happen lol. I even think future bachelors for awhile, everyone is going to propose and get engaged. I wouldn't have gotten engaged if I were Des, but girls like Des exist. It's funny because Des dreamed of her "fairytail" love and my friend who got married also dreamed of her "fairytail" love- looking for Prince Charming. (Just a coincidence)

I know you're not being disrespectful- I haven't actually read any of the other boards/threads, I just browsed and saw your post and just happen to reply to your comment.

I also agree that they have a better chance of it working out as she's moving to Seattle and away from LA. Which reminds me of why I wanted to post in the thread in the first place- how much of a weird feeling I got when they brought Sean and Catherine. As if I didn't already dislike them, which is sad because I LOVED her for Sean during the season but the second they came off the show, I've highly disliked them but tonight just proved my feelings of some irrational dislike. I know it sounds extremely terrible..

Alanna wrote:
She definitely said all those things and probably felt them to be her true feelings in the moment but IMO it's just like teenagers screaming they hate their parents, want to die, run away, blow up the school or whatever, whatever, whatever. They may feel it when Mom and Dad ground them from the iPad but in reality, it's just a splash of emotions going crazy.

She was hurt and felt betrayed and said all those things, and couple that with her understanding of what love is supposed to be like with feeling unloved, insecure, and unwanted, she freaked out and went nuts. Once she calmed down, she realized that love is the guy that is always there for you that matters, and not the spark she felt with Brooks, which didn't matter since he never wanted her anyway. She seems to understand it now and appreciates and loves the man who wants to be her rock no matter the waves around them.

I also attribute this situation to Ali's and basically echo everything nd posted upthread, except with a caveat. As similar as these situations are and to me, they're bordering on identical, I think the outcomes will be different. Ali had an agenda to be a STAR which Roberto didn't fit and she had many, many previous boyfriends so it wasn't her first rodeo into charming a guy and doing what she wants. I put Des more into the Jillian and Ashley category of women, who don't know their female prowess exists or they don't know how to use it, so I think she'll stick around with Chris instead of running off into LA chasing over Brooks' clone. Like everyone says though, time will tell!

 About Brooks: Even if Des and Brooks were locked in a room, I'm not certain that any additional rehashing of the relationship or "feeling" talks would bring them out of the circle they were running in. At the end of the day, as he intimated last night, "it" wasn't there for him. Why, then, should Des not move on to someone who does love her?

I understand that people are concerned about Chris not watching the Brooks' breakup. I suspect that Chris knew that he was "second" to Brooks; he commented on it since episode 3 and then again in Madiera. When Des told them at the F3 RC that Brooks was gone, I think that "$hit got real" for Drew and Chris who then actually had a shot.

I almost see Chris' LCD as the first date of their "real" relationship, and Chris and Des jumped into things with open hearts unfettered by the "journey to that point". It was a fresh start for them both. If that's the case, I could see Chris more easily dismissing the Brooks stuff and not seeing it necessary to watch the breakup. If that LCD was the start of their relationship essentially and they both knew it, then everything before that time becomes irrelevant to their reality.

I really see possibility for this couple, and I'm elated by the turn of events.  Brooks will find someone who he wants to love soon.

Starshine_16 wrote:

Rolly wrote:Totally agree with the post above from Beeleever and pbmax.... a broken heart takes time to heal.  The scene with Des and Brooks on ATFR tells me she still has unresolved feelings IMO and why wouldn't she from what we saw the week before. If there is a chance for their relationship to work he needs to know the depth of her feelings when Brooks left. They can move forward but you can't pretend the devastating break up didn't happen.

I definitely did not see any hint of unresolved feelings for Brooks. Des is glowing and she's clearly happy with Chris and they've lasted for 3 months in secret. Most of these relationships have crumbled or on their way to crumbling by this point. Just imo of course.:Smiley: 

I didn't see any hint of unresolved feelings for Brooks either. There were no tears from Des and she cries at the drop of a hat. Chris is SO steady and straight forward vs. Brooks was so tentative and unsettled. I'm sure there was no question in her mind her choice was right. She can't get to Seattle fast enough.

california90 wrote:I agree- but its the bachelor.. I wouldn't expect it to happen lol. I even think future bachelors for awhile, everyone is going to propose and get engaged. I wouldn't have gotten engaged if I were Des, but girls like Des exist. It's funny because Des dreamed of her "fairytail" love and my friend who got married also dreamed of her "fairytail" love- looking for Prince Charming. (Just a coincidence)

I know you're not being disrespectful- I haven't actually read any of the other boards/threads, I just browsed and saw your post and just happen to reply to your comment.

I also agree that they have a better chance of it working out as she's moving to Seattle and away from LA. Which reminds me of why I wanted to post in the thread in the first place- how much of a weird feeling I got when they brought Sean and Catherine. As if I didn't already dislike them, which is sad because I LOVED her for Sean during the season but the second they came off the show, I've highly disliked them but tonight just proved my feelings of some irrational dislike. I know it sounds extremely terrible..

I get that this is how the show rolls. I just think it's too bad they are getting so much negative backlash from it. TPTB arent' making this easy on their relationship with the way it was edited.

Hey, y'all, I'm a newbie to this forum and to reality show forums in general.

As a bit of background, I don't follow reality tv shows, and basically watch very little tv outside of live sports broadcasts. I started watching this series around ep. 6 or 7 however: I don't know what drew me in, in particular. I suppose there was a general 'sweetness' and charming naivete about the participants that was somewhat disarming. I didn't pay much attention while 'watching' at first: the show was just on in the background while I attended to chores or was on the computer.

It was ep. 10 however, which really fascinated me. Reality shows ironically, are well known for placing people in highly unrealistic, artificial situations; and with the combination of a contrived elimination format, along with the artificiality of having a camera trained on their every word and movement, we know that participants are not always going to behave in ways that they normally would.

And that's what surprised me about ep. 10. It felt incredibly raw, incredibly real, and it almost felt inappropriate to watch the events unfold between brooks and desiree. OTOH, I couldn't turn away: for the first time, Desiree's carefully groomed and managed uber cheerful persona and perma smile came crumbling down, replaced by an avalanche of emotion.

I must confess I found Desiree much sexier and much more attractive than ever. I felt badly for her and strongly drawn to her at the same time.

--

Anyway, to put in my 2, I went back and watched some of the brooks/des dates from earlier episodes that I had either not seen (hollywood sign), or had not paid much attention to (madeira sp? and hometown).

My sense is that brooks has unresolved issues relating to his parent's breakup. As we saw, Brooks spoke to his mother, but not of course to his absentee father. During their first date, Brooks seemed incredibly reluctant to open up and discuss this highly sensitive matter with someone who for all intents and purposes, was a complete stranger.

That, along with the incredible speed with which the 'winner' was expected to propose (10 weeks?), in addition to  desiree's heavy handed emphasis on marriage (taking him to a bridal salon), actually served to frighten and alienate him.

Desiree seems like a very, very sweet young lady, but she seems incredibly unsophisticated: taking a man on a first date to a bridal salon and then prying a confession from him about his deepest darkest feelings and events from his past was just too much for Brooks to handle.

I don't think Brooks is gay, as a number of posters have suggested; I do think he's a sensitive man, and being pressured to 'fess up, and being pressured to train his mind on marriage on the very first date was just tactically dumb or shall I say ill advised, on desiree's part, no offense to her.

--

As little as I think of the reality show genre, I appreciate ep. 10, which for the first time in my recollection, gave us an opportunity to see some people experiencing deep, genuine emotion.

noobsleuth wrote:If they wanted to sell the Chris and Des love story they shouldn't have shown her tell CH she loved Brooks in Madeira and shouldn't have showed her telling Brooks it was him in the end, that she loved him and still does, that she wanted to give her heart to him and didn't even want the other guys in the picture. Just a week ago she was flat out desperate to keep Brooks around.

I do believe that Des and Chris could be happily engaged and in love now, but that engagement last night was the biggest WTH moment I've seen from this show in a long time. I would have preferred to see Brooks come back, and if she was really in love with Chris, reject Brooks and choose Chris, or walk away alone and choose to date Chris at the ATFR (like Jason and Molly did).

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you directly, but you did bring up a good point.  I think this season, MF really wanted to stick it to RS and therefore had to keep things really hush hush with regards to a possible different ending than what RS was spilling his guts about with regards to Brooks being F1.  Unfortunately because of that, if they left too much in regarding Chris and Des, then RS would of gotten wind that things weren't going the way he thought they would and he would of looked into it more.  MF had to leave enough there to keep RS from guessing.  I am thinking that MF knows how RS's ego controls much of what he says/does so the only way to keep RS from second guessing what he'd been told is to feed that ego by leaving in enough of the possibility of Brooks coming back as well as the possibility that RS can laugh his way to the bank one more time as his ego was giving him more of a cheque than he could cash.  All in all, MF kept everyone guessing right up until the last few minutes and as such, turned this back to the seasons of past when the ending use to be somewhat of a surprise as we just didn't know/understand MF's editing at the time.

All in all, really looking forward to the next season and sleuthing everything right from the get go.

sopearl wrote:The good news is: next season when RS announces the winner, we can sleuth away without thinking it's a waste of time.

So true! LOL, talk about a bug up someone's butt, I had that when I was told that I am wasting my time by sleuthing. LOL.

Aunties_Love wrote:

sopearl wrote:The good news is: next season when RS announces the winner, we can sleuth away without thinking it's a waste of time.

So true!  LOL, talk about a bug up someone's butt, I had that when I was told that I am wasting my time by sleuthing.  LOL.

:WAVEY:  Hi Aunties! Just wanted to say that I never, ever, ever (God Taylor Swift is in my head) felt sleuthing was a waste of time. Fleiss did not give us much to sleuth. The safehouse pic was suspicious and I did not know what to think of it...but YOU and a few others did. Kudos.