The Edit - Bachelorette 9 - Discussion

For anyone interested the FRC took place May 6th.

Thanks, Kasha. Your sleuthing was right on the mark.

nd4reality wrote:JBF - let me come to the edit thread to congratulate you on the read of the edit this season. You did not let up and need to be commended for that.

Good Job man !

Awww thanks! I was debating whether or not to even bother with last night's show since it all was pretty self explanatory, BUT... if we need a quickie recap...

Finale/ATFR quickie

They built upon all of the themes of the season, the most important being this: she needed to get over her tendency to go after guys who can't love her back and needed to see what was presented right in front of her. Brooks was her "therapy" as predicted under the Hollywood sign back in episode #2 when both discussed that heartbreak means "it is not meant for me to be with that person".

In a way Brooks = Arie (who had to "exorcise" the ghost of Ricky with his race car connection) = Bentley (getting Ashley through her phobia of guys leaving) = Frank (another not "loving me back" despite Ali chirping she "fell head over heels for him")

Her sob in the red dress, during Chris' LCD, was all about her real issue: It wasn't that she couldn't give the same "love" she gave Brooks to Drew and Chris. The problem was that she is still struggling HOW to return any love to others in general because she never felt loved herself, so to speak. Brooks had to be her "therapy" through this and it was hardly surprising that she kept telling Harrison at ATFR about it all being about The Experience... that is, the break-up with Brooks... rather than Brooks himself.

I mean... technically Brooks did nothing wrong except leave a bit late in the game. He was a perfect gentleman otherwise, like Bryden... until he interrupted Chris' date in Munich to leave abruptly as well. I did not get the sense she was all that "into" Brooks during their sit-down at ATFR, being hardly coy in telling him things were great after he left... and apologizing for the knife-in-the-back insinuation Harrison joked about. If she STILL harbored feelings for Brooks, we would have seen a lot more in her body language.

I think her stopping Chris at FRC to tell him about Drew and her Brooks "blindside" was probably encouraged by the producers to add an extra dose of suspense and keep HIM on edge. After all, he still thought Drew was in the game. The reaction he gave, looking away from her when he thought she was ready to dump him was upsetting to watch. You could see how invested he was in her.

Likewise, Nate was probably told by somebody to bring up Brooks with her, since she barely discussed him in their previous meeting after hometowns. In fact, I am not sure he was even remotely aware of who Brooks was, despite that shot of him "spying" on him as Harrison was bringing the guys in for the 8th rose ceremony. (Ditto situation: Chrystie questioning Ashley if she is "too much" for JP in Vomo, Fiji... something I long suspected was "handler encouraged".)

It is clear Desiree still has some hang-ups (don't we all?), so Chris himself has to play therapist to a degree. He was confident she was not like his previous girlfriend when he talked to his mother at hometown, but she may not be as independent and self confident as he may have thought previously. Therefore, we... and Chris himself... had to watch this show unfold so he could see that other side of her: the girl who is still a bit insecure with herself. (Ditto: JP had to see the Bentley saga play out since his family was fearful of him repeating the heartbreak experience again himself and he needed to see that Ashley was capable of going through... and understanding... the same emotions.)

Poor Drew didn't do much this episode. He was cut too early before having a chance. I thought it was interesting how his stylist tried to make him look, on ATFR, as much like Reid Rosenthal on Jillian's ATFR as possible. Practically the same hair too.

Her body language on ATFR was a little nervous. She is a cross-legger at all times, even with Chris on the couch. Chris kept massaging her shoulder with a "we'll be outta here soon" look. Of course, both looked more relaxed here:

JBF wrote:

nd4reality wrote:JBF - let me come to the edit thread to congratulate you on the read of the edit this season. You did not let up and need to be commended for that.

Good Job man !

Awww thanks! I was debating whether or not to even bother with last night's show since it all was pretty self explanatory, BUT... if we need a quickie recap...

Finale/ATFR quickie

They built upon all of the themes of the season, the most important being this: she needed to get over her tendency to go after guys who can't love her back and needed to see what was presented right in front of her. Brooks was her "therapy" as predicted under the Hollywood sign back in episode #2 when both discussed that heartbreak means "it is not meant for me to be with that person".

In a way Brooks = Arie (who had to "exorcise" the ghost of Ricky with his race car connection) = Bentley (getting Ashley through her phobia of guys leaving) = Frank (another not "loving me back" despite Ali chirping she "fell head over heels for him")

Her sob in the red dress, during Chris' LCD, was all about her real issue: It wasn't that she couldn't give the same "love" she gave Brooks to Drew and Chris. The problem was that she is still struggling HOW to return any love to others in general because she never felt loved herself, so to speak. Brooks had to be her "therapy" through this and it was hardly surprising that she kept telling Harrison at ATFR about it all being about The Experience... that is, the break-up with Brooks... rather than Brooks himself.

I mean... technically Brooks did nothing wrong except leave a bit late in the game. He was a perfect gentleman otherwise, like Bryden... until he interrupted Chris' date in Munich to leave abruptly as well. I did not get the sense she was all that "into" Brooks during their sit-down at ATFR, being hardly coy in telling him things were great after he left... and apologizing for the knife-in-the-back insinuation Harrison joked about. If she STILL harbored feelings for Brooks, we would have seen a lot more in her body language.

I think her stopping Chris at FRC to tell him about Drew and her Brooks "blindside" was probably encouraged by the producers to add an extra dose of suspense and keep HIM on edge. After all, he still thought Drew was in the game. The reaction he gave, looking away from her when he thought she was ready to dump him was upsetting to watch. You could see how invested he was in her.

Likewise, Nate was probably told by somebody to bring up Brooks with her, since she barely discussed him in their previous meeting after hometowns. In fact, I am not sure he was even remotely aware of who Brooks was, despite that shot of him "spying" on him as Harrison was bringing the guys in for the 8th rose ceremony. (Ditto situation: Chrystie questioning Ashley if she is "too much" for JP in Vomo, Fiji... something I long suspected was "handler encouraged".)

It is clear Desiree still has some hang-ups (don't we all?), so Chris himself has to play therapist to a degree. He was confident she was not like his previous girlfriend when he talked to his mother at hometown, but she may not be as independent and self confident as he may have thought previously. Therefore, we... and Chris himself... had to watch this show unfold so he could see that other side of her: the girl who is still a bit insecure with herself. (Ditto: JP had to see the Bentley saga play out since his family was fearful of him repeating the heartbreak experience again himself and he needed to see that Ashley was capable of going through... and understanding... the same emotions.)

Poor Drew didn't do much this episode. He was cut too early before having a chance. I thought it was interesting how his stylist tried to make him look, on ATFR, as much like Reid Rosenthal on Jillian's ATFR as possible. Practically the same hair too.

Her body language on ATFR was a little nervous. She is a cross-legger at all times, even with Chris on the couch. Chris kept massaging her shoulder with a "we'll be outta here soon" look. Of course, both looked more relaxed here:

Hey JBF someone mentioned on another thread that you had an interesting Chris/Des horoscope post. I've been trying to find it, but can't. Any chance you can resurrect it for me?

black_tears wrote:
Hey JBF someone mentioned on another thread that you had an interesting Chris/Des horoscope post. I've been trying to find it, but can't. Any chance you can resurrect it for me?

Buried in the fun thread... you will have to dig it up.

If Des' birthday is April 8, 1986 (and please, Nate, don't change it again on us!), she is a...

Sun: 17 degrees Aries
Moon in mid Aries
Mercury: 21 degrees Pisces
Venus: 6 degrees Taurus
Mars: 5 degrees Capricorn
Jupiter: 10 degrees Pisces
Saturn: 9 degrees retrograde Sagittarius
Uranus: 22 degrees retrograde Sagittarius
Neptune: 5 degrees retrograde Capricorn
Pluto: 6 degrees Scorpio
North Node: 29 degrees Aries

Chris is a (12-12-85)
Sun 20-Sagittarius
Moon in late Sagittarius or early Capricorn,
Mercury 0-Sagittarius
Venus 11-Sagittarius
Mars 28-Libra
Jupiter 14-Aquarius
Saturn 3-Sagittarius
Uranus 18-Sagittarius
Neptune 2-Capricorn
Pluto 6-Scorpio
N. Node 8-Taurus

When you put the birthdays together on this site: http://www.astrotheme.com/astrological_synastry_chart.php

...you get charts with a lot of "glyphs" or symbols with blue and red lines. The BLUE lines are called "trines" and "sextiles" and they indicate areas where the two people are "harmonious"... lots of comfort. The RED lines are the "squares" and "oppositions" indicating more conflict... although some couples WANT that since it adds more "spice" to the relationship.

You get a pretty good "picture" in terms of the number of red versus blue...

I will stick Sun sign Libra, Moon sign Pisces Brooks here first... putting him with Des...



Obviously Brooks and Des have plenty of feisty red lines. They will never get bored with each other, but I am not so sure they are all that durable either.

Here's Chris with Des... there is plenty of blue here, but I could also see them being a dull couple after time too. It all depends on whether Des still wants to enjoy "ups and downs" in her life or she wants a "rock" in her relationship.

JBF wrote:Finale Part 1: She’s boating! And weeping!

In many ways, this episode resembled Ali/Frank (fantasy date) and Ashley/Bentley (episodes #3 through #6). Although we remember these seasons for the “end results” (i.e. Roberto & JP), we got the same amount of tears. The only difference this season is that the spoilers are still chirping Brooks as F1 as if she accepts him back. Yet Ali’s season was all about her choosing nobody on account of Frank too.

Too much Drew and Brooks in the recaps and very little Chris. All about drama! drama! drama!... and specifically about guys leaving. At least the top three are given their separate little journeys.
1.) Masculine qualities for Chris. EVERYTHING she is looking for in a husband. Go boy!
2.) Drew is passionate and romantic… Mr. Rocketship. He will be a great husband… but for whom?
3.) Brooks is on Cloud 9. Set apart from the other guys. Building up him as better than Wonder Bread. One of kind. She can picture him as hubbie too.

Drew’s date starts at a windmill just as Desiree starts getting a little windy in her monologue. Hey! He got his picture taken so he can compete with Brooks (bridal shop) and Chris (Munich). She sure “pictures” a lot with Drew and Brooks. Also both guys keep saying “in the moment” a lot. Even if Drew is genuine in his affections, this type of talk makes their relationship seem fleeting.

On the other hand, he also says he found his soul mate. In the fantasy date nighttime, Drew says he hasn't had good mornings yet. Just good nights. (Curious play on words.) He has had crazy feelings for eternity. His date was judged online by Robert Mills as the steamiest, but the AC might not have been working too… so… while I am not suggesting there wasn’t other “heat” going on, we do have to question this on occasion since it WAS the case in some tropical dates of the past.

Chris’ fantasy date felt more staged and less “natural” than his Madeira one. Yet you can sum it up in one word. Vibrant. He keeps saying she makes him feel vibrant. Matt White was heard a third time this season. She wants to be 100% alone with him.

Later when commenting on both him and Drew before Brooks’ arrival, she comments on what all Chris does for her as she pulls up her shorts. Hmmm…

Brooks’ departure scene with Mister Harrison went on a looong time. Nice touch though that they recycled Bentley’s breakup music when he ditched Ashley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKd2Wd-rAuU

Although the feelings are genuine, she does love him and is heart-broken, I suspect that this was slightly set up to show the Hartsock family and others who know her well. We know from episode #2 that a past boyfriend did exactly the same thing Brooks did... and as Nate says after the hometowns "what is not meant to be is not meant to be." Under the Hollywood sign, she foreshadowed this scene in startling detail: “Then that means I wasn’t meant to be with that person.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwpODv0ey_U

So… will she still be mourning after Brooks at the end of this? Will she accept him back if he comes back? Maybe. Maybe not.

Here she discusses Brooks with Jimmy Kimmel... simply saying this season is full of surprises.

Congrats JBF! You called it all along. Thanks for all the excellent insight that you shared this season ... both on the spoiled and unspoiled threads. Will be great to read your thoughts again in Juan Pablo's season. Now that should be fun!

JBF, you nailed it this season! Thank you for sharing your analysis through out!

Oh I wasn't alone... *chuckle chuckle* It was a Team Effort! Lots of people here contributing.

I pretty much thought Chris would be the one in April when we learned that Zack Kalter got the boot in Atlantic City, since they were quite similar in backgrounds and fit "the profile" some of us THOUGHT would be her F1.

The Spoilers threw everything out of whack, but I was willing to accept Brooks and began to study his edit to determine what kind of post-show relationship we were getting. Unfortunately, none of the puzzle pieces were fitting.

In addition, Chris' shoe-tie proposal out of the limo was suspicious to me, mostly because the music didn't start out as "funny"... it was serious. Also her reaction to him entering the mansion was suspicious as if it was some sort of "foreshadowing" that she wasn't quite aware of yet. (The storyline was all about "seeing" what was in front of her after spending time on Cloud 9.) It also felt like somebody such as Peter Geist may have "pegged" him much as Cassie Lambert did with Jordan Paul (writing his name down on a piece of paper on Ashley's Meet & Greet).

Episode #5 was the one that really had me sold on Chris. There were wwaaaaayyy too many F1 "signs" including her saying he had EVERYTHING she wanted in a husband. Whether or not they do end up married, nobody else on her season was fitting that profile... not even "enjoying being in the moment" Brooks.

Love_Me wrote:The other Edit thread will be back in the archive Forum eventually. It reached 40 pages and some posts need to be deleted.

Please, take the time to read the rules we have here.

Just curious... is there any remnant of the old archive thread left, pre-July? In April, I was determining possible editing scenarios for the first 9-11 guys posted on Reality Steve's site. Drew was an unknown at that time. Zack and Chris were my rival frontrunners, with Kasey and Brooks as potential top 2-4 dumpees.

This will be my favorite thread in future seasons. Love the critical analysis. You've taught me to listen - there is a reason for all those frankenbites! I have to say I thought Chris was doomed after showing his dad draining snot out of his nose though! Any thoughts on why they showed that gross-out scene?

Norcalgal wrote:This will be my favorite thread in future seasons.  Love the critical analysis.  You've taught me to listen - there is a reason for all those frankenbites!  I have to say I thought Chris was doomed after showing his dad draining snot out of his nose though!  Any thoughts on why they showed that gross-out scene?

So true... usually the weird HTD is the dead giveaway for who goes home F4.
I thought Chris might be a goner right then.
OTOH the edit of Chris HTD wasn't as "goofy" or "silly" as past doomed HTDs.

HowSoonIsNow wrote:

Norcalgal wrote:This will be my favorite thread in future seasons.  Love the critical analysis.  You've taught me to listen - there is a reason for all those frankenbites!  I have to say I thought Chris was doomed after showing his dad draining snot out of his nose though!  Any thoughts on why they showed that gross-out scene?

So true... usually the weird HTD is the dead giveaway for who goes home F4.  
I thought Chris might be a goner right then.
OTOH the edit of Chris HTD wasn't as "goofy" or "silly" as past doomed HTDs.

Exactly. Usually the weird HTD is a giveaway. Naomi,Kirk, Shawntel etc.