Off Topic/Miscellaneous Subjects - Discussion

pavalygurl wrote:

dw_a_mom wrote:

pavalygurl wrote: ... but seldom has so much praise been heaped upon a group who has actually accomplished not so much.

Par for the course in fan-dom land. I've never understood it. The world of fan-dom creates this fantasy no one could actually live up to.


I enjoy well-building pics, love the Nicaragua video, etc etc but do I see these guys as amazing people doing amazing things? Not really. They're just people like the rest of us. Not heros and not zeros.

My point is the rest of us are not touting ourselves as world saviors. I will bet our little board has some amazing folks who quietly contribute so much in time, effort and cash.

It might be worth noting that outside of the interest generated from the TV show, the only touting PW did was a single you-tube video. How many people who aren't fans of the show know a thing about what PW does? The interest and touting came hand in hand with the fan-dom, and in a way was generated by the fans.

They aren't heros or zeros. They are just doing what they are comfortable with.

I am well aware that the real heros are people none of us know the name of. That maybe a dozen people know the name of. Even locally the most public faces of charity tend to be people who are good at image while others do the hard work.

My point is you can't blame the public faces for having the ability to put on a public face, and having people who want them on a pedastal; they don't usually put themselves there; others do. And it serves its purpose. I am one of the people who has done ten times the work of the one with the public face, and I've decided that if that is how people need to sort positions in their lives, so be it. I know what I've done, I know what others have done, and I know that the public face is doing something, if not as much as the glory indicates. Sometimes people just want to believe someone is a hero, and taking that on brings its own issues that I've never wanted, all the criticism in this thread case in point. I don't know how many of those made up heros end up believing their own hype, but I'll stand by saying that I don't believe most of them choose it so much as allow it, and I'll never fault them for playing into it in the name of their cause.

dw_a_mom wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:

dw_a_mom wrote:

pavalygurl wrote: ... but seldom has so much praise been heaped upon a group who has actually accomplished not so much.

Par for the course in fan-dom land. I've never understood it. The world of fan-dom creates this fantasy no one could actually live up to.


I enjoy well-building pics, love the Nicaragua video, etc etc but do I see these guys as amazing people doing amazing things? Not really. They're just people like the rest of us. Not heros and not zeros.

My point is the rest of us are not touting ourselves as world saviors. I will bet our little board has some amazing folks who quietly contribute so much in time, effort and cash.

It might be worth noting that outside of the interest generated from the TV show, the only touting PW did was a single you-tube video. How many people who aren't fans of the show know a thing about what PW does? The interest and touting came hand in hand with the fan-dom, and in a way was generated by the fans.

They aren't heros or zeros. They are just doing what they are comfortable with.

I am well aware that the real heros are people none of us know the name of. That maybe a dozen people know the name of. Even locally the most public faces of charity tend to be people who are good at image while others do the hard work.

My point is you can't blame the public faces for having the ability to put on a public face, and having people who want them on a pedastal; they don't usually put themselves there; others do. And it serves its purpose. I am one of the people who has done ten times the work of the one with the public face, and I've decided that if that is how people need to sort positions in their lives, so be it. I know what I've done, I know what others have done, and I know that the public face is doing something, if not as much as the glory indicates. Sometimes people just want to believe someone is a hero, and taking that on brings its own issues that I've never wanted, all the criticism in this thread case in point. I don't know how many of those made up heros end up believing their own hype, but I'll stand by saying that I don't believe most of them choose it so much as allow it, and I'll never fault them for playing into it in the name of their cause.

dw_a-mom, I just want to say how much I like reading your balanced posts on this subject, especially because of your insight into the actual business startup and charity worlds. I often feel like just following you around with this

I think people forget too that PW is a start up company with start up charity involvement. Whenever a company is starting up it takes a lot of hype/PR to draw attention to it...both to garner it's profits and to draw attention to it's charitable cause. It takes money to make money both in business and charity. So these PR videos and trips are an investment in what they hope will be a viable and valuable future. Will it work? Who knows in this volatile corporate world but if it doesn't succeed it will have at least left some legacy behind in the wells it has already sponsored.

I see the trip and video no differently than other charities that hold huge expensive balls where the dresses that they wear and the food and drink they consume costs as much or more than the air fare to get a few people to a foreign country. You can choose to give quietly and work endlessly for a cause in the background or you can stand up and draw attention to yourself and the cause. Both ways are needed.

No they are not heros or putting themselves on pedestals, they are trying to be leaders and beacons...young people with good hearts. I personally think that when you see so much negativity and violence in the world that when you see someone...anyone, doing something positive then they should be praised. The world needs a lot more positive reinforcement. The crime and dark side of life too easily gets the world's attention. So why pick apart the ones trying to some good for the world. Do they get the whole plan correct? Maybe not but they are trying and are young and like a baby learning to walk they will improve with trial and error. It is like a child who is learning. If you constantly harp on what is wrong instead of encouraging what is right then eventually they give up trying and all the good that could have been garnered is lost.

I don’t think questioning and investigating the legal and ethical issues of PW marketing practices amounts to “harping on what is wrong." I have learned a lot in the last few weeks about the water crisis, about water charities, about businesses that use cause marketing and about how people react in general to those businesses – on both sides of the fence.

Obviously, there are some issues with their marketing strategy or we wouldn’t have seen PW referred to as a “charity” in articles, on message boards, on twitter, etc. Most of us don’t “know” these people or “know” their true intentions and we certainly have a right to voice our opinions and post information about this particular subject. There are several posts on this board that have to do with real charities some of these contestants are involved in, yet PW, a for-profit, environmentally unfriendly, with questionable marketing practices, start-up business gets more attention than all of them combined. The vast majority of that attention is positive and glowing. I can’t help but wonder if this business were not connected with the “winner” of the show the kind of reaction we would see.

I appreciate all the information that has been presented about cause marketing and what is legal and what is ethical as it relates to PW's practices. My thanks to all those who have enlightened me on the subject.

deedreamer wrote:I think people forget too that PW is a start up company with start up charity involvement. Whenever a company is starting up it takes a lot of hype/PR to draw attention to it...both to garner it's profits and to draw attention to it's charitable cause. It takes money to make money both in business and charity. So these PR videos and trips are an investment in what they hope will be a viable and valuable future. Will it work? Who knows in this volatile corporate world but if it doesn't succeed it will have at least left some legacy behind in the wells it has already sponsored.

I see the trip and video no differently than other charities that hold huge expensive balls where the dresses that they wear and the food and drink they consume costs as much or more than the air fare to get a few people to a foreign country. You can choose to give quietly and work endlessly for a cause in the background or you can stand up and draw attention to yourself and the cause. Both ways are needed.

No they are not heros or putting themselves on pedestals, they are trying to be leaders and beacons...young people with good hearts. I personally think that when you see so much negativity and violence in the world that when you see someone...anyone, doing something positive then they should be praised. The world needs a lot more positive reinforcement. The crime and dark side of life too easily gets the world's attention. So why pick apart the ones trying to some good for the world. Do they get the whole plan correct? Maybe not but they are trying and are young and like a baby learning to walk they will improve with trial and error. It is like a child who is learning. If you constantly harp on what is wrong instead of encouraging what is right then eventually they give up trying and all the good that could have been garnered is lost.

Amen! Good post.

jlccaz wrote:It's all well and good to compare to major charities (American Red Cross, etc.) but that's not an apt comparison for this situation, where the corporation merely makes a donation to Generosity Water, and the purchaser has the option to donate directly or buy water and donate indirectly.

Generosity Water, Water for the People, etc. have much more IMPACT on people who need clean water dollar for dollar (donations:purchase) than People Water.

Red herring.

I agree with your concern vis a vis the peddling of plastic, especially in using a volunteer w/f to peddle that plastic. Where I am from, the grocery stores no longer offer "paper or plastic", and they even started charging 10c for each paper bag 6 mos ago. It's amazing to see how a mere 10c charge has completely transformed the area to a bring-your-own-bag habit in just 6 mos. And where I now live, bring-your-own-bag has about a 60% adoption rate on the back of a 10c refund model (ie. save 10c on your groceries if you bring your own bags, with the option to donate that 10c to the charity chosen by the grocery store).

Also, I don't identify with the bottled water consumer generally, just because I don't see why to buy throw-away plastic when a Brita filter/pitcher and a few of my own BPA-free bottle does the same job without purchasing and recycling an endless supply of plastic or water. I guess it could be dubbed the "bring my own bottle" model. But I can't fault bottled water companies for tapping into a willing consumer base any more than I can fault coke/pepsi for peddling soda pop (aka bubbly sugar water), even though I lament that product far more and fault it in part for obesity rates in the USA.

It'd be nice to see PW set up vending machines which vend-for-purchase water into bottles that you supply, just like coffee vending machines will allow you to supply your own cup into the machine. Charge more if you want water in a bottle. That way both options are available.

Finally, and frankly I don't know much about this, but is the PW model of volunteer ambassadors much different from the "street teams" used by record labels and recording artists (who are also for-profit entities) to use enthusiastic fan volunteers to promote their music? The critical difference might be that street teams are more about marketing and publicity than sales per se. But the point being that the volunteer model already exists in the for-profit world.

P.S. I enjoy reading your information and POV you have provided in this thread. Thanks for that!

Chacharo wrote:I can’t help but wonder if this business were not connected with the “winner” of the show the kind of reaction we would see.

Lol, zip, zero, because we'd still never have heard of it. Those of us who don't live in the limited areas in which they sell, anyway.

Maybe that is the only thing we could all agree on here ;)

HowSoonIsNow wrote:
It'd be nice to see PW set up vending machines which vend-for-purchase water into bottles that you supply, just like coffee vending machines will allow you to supply your own cup into the machine. Charge more if you want water in a bottle. That way both options are available.

What a cool idea.

dw_a_mom wrote:

Chacharo wrote:I can’t help but wonder if this business were not connected with the “winner” of the show the kind of reaction we would see.

Lol, zip, zero, because we'd still never have heard of it. Those of us who don't live in the limited areas in which they sell, anyway.

Maybe that is the only thing we could all agree on here ;)

What I meant was if the business were Arie's or Sean's or one of the other contestants that didn't cause quite as much of a lovefest as 1F. If 1F were a pig farmer, the price of bacon probably would have skyrocketed by now. But you're right about being on this show has certainly brought attention to the company. :Smiley:

I think there is probably more that we agree on than you know.

Chacharo wrote:

dw_a_mom wrote:

Chacharo wrote:I can’t help but wonder if this business were not connected with the “winner” of the show the kind of reaction we would see.

Lol, zip, zero, because we'd still never have heard of it. Those of us who don't live in the limited areas in which they sell, anyway.

Maybe that is the only thing we could all agree on here ;)

What I meant was if the business were Arie's or Sean's or one of the other contestants that didn't cause quite as much of a lovefest as 1F. If 1F were a pig farmer, the price of bacon probably would have skyrocketed by now. But you're right about being on this show has certainly brought attention to the company. :Smiley:

I think there is probably more that we agree on than you know.

There is a lovefest for Arie and Sean, I've seen plenty of it! I think if they would have be F1 and they had a company like Jef then it would be getting a lot of attention right now. If Jef would have been eliminated earlier in the season then I don't think his business would be getting as much attention, positve and negative!

Our local high school installed a water bottle friendly water fountain. The fountain offers chilled water and calculates the number of disposable bottles saved from a landfill. So far they're up to 12,000 and I believe it's only been operational since spring.
Good way for kids to see what an impact using reusable bottles makes.

realityfan26 wrote:Our local high school installed a water bottle friendly water fountain. The fountain offers chilled water and calculates the number of disposable bottles saved from a landfill. So far they're up to 12,000 and I believe it's only been operational since spring.
Good way for kids to see what an impact using reusable bottles makes.

These seem to be very effective. Apparently people experience those as more sanitary.