Off Topic/Miscellaneous Subjects - Discussion

jlccaz wrote:

Jeepers wrote:Companies that support charitable programs ALL make money from their product .. And ALL choose which charities they choose to support .. PW is no different .. Think Coca Cola .. Avon .. All pro athletic teams .. Etc.......

Coke, Yoplait, Chick Fil A -- all are universally understood to be for profit companies.

PeopleWater blurs the lines, through ignorance or intent. "Join the Movement" -- is charity talk, not a disclosure that less than a cent (my guess) per liter is donated to a well charity. They promote / feature news articles that expressly repeat the misinformation that Jef runs a "charity." The CEO tweeted just this week that people should go to peoplewater.com to "DONATE" -- his word.

There is no link on the site to donate to any charity. Instead, clicking through, one can "shop" for merchandise (disclosed % to charity partners) or water ("drop for drop" confusion -- one pair of shoes for one pair of shoes, easy to understand for any consumer. One liter for one liter -- very confusing! Some think that water bottles are being shipped to Africa. Some think that all the proceeds are going to well charities, i.e., it's a charity. Many just fill in the blanks projecting their own (incorrect) ideas. Many don't give a darn -- they like the product, it's a free country, and it makes them feel close to someone they liked on TV or something like that. All fine.

But there are stringent state and federal laws about misleading people into thinking their purchases are going to a charity. And this company, notwithstanding the national spotlight it unsurprisingly garnered through the founder's appearance on network primetime and his "win", is moving away from transparency, not toward transparency so far.

So the criticism gains momentum, instead of fading away.

Thank you. That was exactly my point too in my post, and I dont ff PW on Twitter so didnt know they were even using the term "Donate." Some Bach followers had also misunderstood 46NYC and that's why Graham takes pains to explain in media interviews and vlogs that 46NYC is NOT a charity, and does NOT accept donations. And if the CEO himself uses "donation", then it does create some confusion, intended or otherwise.

kate123 wrote:

Jeepers wrote:Companies that support charitable programs ALL make money from their product .. And ALL choose which charities they choose to support .. PW is no different .. Think Coca Cola .. Avon .. All pro athletic teams .. Etc.......

Once again, it's not the same thing. Coca-Cola does not market its product by saying they're donating money from every purchase to such-and-such a cause. Avon does donate to breast cancer charities, but they're very specific about what you have to buy and how much sale donates.

http://shop.avon.com/shop/product_list.aspx?level1_id=300&level2_id=380&cat_type=C&omnCode=Fundraising

If you go to the People Water website, it's all about their charitable giving. Again, they use it directly to market their product. And if the picture of their bottle is correct, the whole charitable deal is printed on every bottle. So it's really not like Coca Cola or even Avon. Their charitable works are not part of their marketing pitch.

It is, however, like the pink lid campaign from Yoplait and Susan G. Komen. Yoplait uses the pink ribbon to sell more yogurt, Susan G. Komen benefits. And yet, Yoplait published on their website:

General Mills will donate 10 cents to Susan G. Komen for each lid received and also for each code entered by 6/30/2013. Maximum total donation of $2,500,000. We have already donated $500,000. We will donate up to an additional $2,000,000 based on
lids submitted, codes entered and other consumer actions. Look for other ways to trigger donations at SaveLidstoSaveLives.com.

So, that's what I'd like to know from People Water. And if they can't tell me that, maybe they could say how much $$ they donated in the previous year to build wells. But they're very vague about it, which they shouldn't be.

Have you contacted them and they said they couldn't tell you?

iluvMoneyBunn wrote:

jlccaz wrote:

Jeepers wrote:Companies that support charitable programs ALL make money from their product .. And ALL choose which charities they choose to support .. PW is no different .. Think Coca Cola .. Avon .. All pro athletic teams .. Etc.......

Coke, Yoplait, Chick Fil A -- all are universally understood to be for profit companies.

PeopleWater blurs the lines, through ignorance or intent. "Join the Movement" -- is charity talk, not a disclosure that less than a cent (my guess) per liter is donated to a well charity. They promote / feature news articles that expressly repeat the misinformation that Jef runs a "charity." The CEO tweeted just this week that people should go to peoplewater.com to "DONATE" -- his word.

There is no link on the site to donate to any charity. Instead, clicking through, one can "shop" for merchandise (disclosed % to charity partners) or water ("drop for drop" confusion -- one pair of shoes for one pair of shoes, easy to understand for any consumer. One liter for one liter -- very confusing! Some think that water bottles are being shipped to Africa. Some think that all the proceeds are going to well charities, i.e., it's a charity. Many just fill in the blanks projecting their own (incorrect) ideas. Many don't give a darn -- they like the product, it's a free country, and it makes them feel close to someone they liked on TV or something like that. All fine.

But there are stringent state and federal laws about misleading people into thinking their purchases are going to a charity. And this company, notwithstanding the national spotlight it unsurprisingly garnered through the founder's appearance on network primetime and his "win", is moving away from transparency, not toward transparency so far.

So the criticism gains momentum, instead of fading away.

Thank you. That was exactly my point too in my post, and I dont ff PW on Twitter so didnt know they were even using the term "Donate." Some Bach followers had also misunderstood 46NYC and that's why Graham takes pains to explain in media interviews and vlogs that 46NYC is NOT a charity, and does NOT accept donations. And if the CEO himself uses "donation", then it does create some confusion, intended or otherwise.

If the bolded is true (and I don't doubt it) regarding the word "donation", then I believe the confusion is intended. These people know EXACTLY what they're doing. And it's likely working for them.

Correction (to myself): PeopleWater itself tweeted "now everyone can donate" and gave the link to its own website.

KayDee wrote:

kate123 wrote:

Jeepers wrote:Companies that support charitable programs ALL make money from their product .. And ALL choose which charities they choose to support .. PW is no different .. Think Coca Cola .. Avon .. All pro athletic teams .. Etc.......

Once again, it's not the same thing. Coca-Cola does not market its product by saying they're donating money from every purchase to such-and-such a cause. Avon does donate to breast cancer charities, but they're very specific about what you have to buy and how much sale donates.

http://shop.avon.com/shop/product_list.aspx?level1_id=300&level2_id=380&cat_type=C&omnCode=Fundraising

If you go to the People Water website, it's all about their charitable giving. Again, they use it directly to market their product. And if the picture of their bottle is correct, the whole charitable deal is printed on every bottle. So it's really not like Coca Cola or even Avon. Their charitable works are not part of their marketing pitch.

It is, however, like the pink lid campaign from Yoplait and Susan G. Komen. Yoplait uses the pink ribbon to sell more yogurt, Susan G. Komen benefits. And yet, Yoplait published on their website:

General Mills will donate 10 cents to Susan G. Komen for each lid received and also for each code entered by 6/30/2013. Maximum total donation of $2,500,000. We have already donated $500,000. We will donate up to an additional $2,000,000 based on
lids submitted, codes entered and other consumer actions. Look for other ways to trigger donations at SaveLidstoSaveLives.com.

So, that's what I'd like to know from People Water. And if they can't tell me that, maybe they could say how much $$ they donated in the previous year to build wells. But they're very vague about it, which they shouldn't be.

Have you contacted them and they said they couldn't tell you?

If that information is readily available by calling them, don't you think they'd publish it on their website? Here, in fact, is an article written by someone who did try to find out but she was unable to get an answer either.

http://okhereisthesituation.com/2012/05/jef-holm-people-water-and-the-bachelorette/

Here's a breakdown of how much they'd potentially give if they followed their pledge, according to the article.

"Their mission statement is “For every bottle purchased PW will give an equal amount of clean water to a person in need.” So how does the math work when they fund a well? If a well costs $12,000 to drill and produces 1000 liters a day, and lasts for 2 years before breaking/running dry, that’s 730,000 liters or 1.46m of their 500ml bottles. So, they could spread $12,000 over 1.46m bottles, or be giving just $0.008 per bottle. That’s less than 1 cent per bottle. I’m truly hoping that isn’t the case. Even Starbucks’ Ethos water gives a paltry 5 cents per sold bottle. Let’s hope PeopleWater is giving 20 cents or more per bottle."

Here is another comment from the article that explains that they pre-pay for the wells.
"What’s unique about PW is they prepay for the well projects and assign each water bottle and well project with a QR code and a water batch number that corresponds with that well project. As the bottles are sold, a percentage of the sale is used to pay down each well project. If you would like to help fund a well project, purchase a bottle of People Water, scan the QR code, and follow your water project."

So, indeed, they know exactly how much they're donating and attach a well to each bottle through the QR code. They're just not telling the consumer how much per bottle is going to pay the debt. It could be a penny a bottle, it could be ten cents. Again, it leaves a lot of wiggle room.

The normal profit margin on bottle water can be from 50 to 200 percent according to industry figures. A 24 pack of People Water purchased on their website is $45.00 without shipping. The bottles are approximately 17 oz. (16.9) which means this water costs 11 cents per ounce. Even if their profit margin is at the low end for bottled water, that means they they're making $22.50 on each case of water sold.

Now, if they're donating a penny a bottle, I'd say these guys are the biggest con men in the world! That would mean out of every case 24 cents goes to the wells and about $22.00 goes into their pocket. Even at a dime a bottle, that's $2.50 per case with $20.00 in profits.

So you can see how they can play very loose with their money when they don't give the consumer specifics.

ETA: The average cost of a round trip ticket to Ghana is about $2000, so there was a whole new well driving around in that van for the P.R. trip to see two new wells.

Jeepers wrote:Companies that support charitable programs ALL make money from their product .. And ALL choose which charities they choose to support .. PW is no different .. Think Coca Cola .. Avon .. All pro athletic teams .. Etc.......

The key difference is "that support charitable programs". PW by all indications promotes itself as a charitable program. Whether it is their intent or not, PW is profiting from the publicity they receive by all the videos, pictures, etc of the people in Ghana, Nicaragua and wherever else they go. What they give in dollar value is IMHO much much less than the dollar value of the publicity.

Why are some contestants' businesses or charitable endeavors aired on the show and others' not? Ryan's gym was spotlighted, I've seen enough of pw water to last me a lifetime, yet I didn't see any mention of Doug's charity or Zanardi America (Arie's business). Do the contestants pay for advertising on the show?

For all we know, all of the contestants could be heavily involved in charitable work without public knowledge. The fact is that most people who donate to charities etc. do so quietly because that is the classy thing to do.

I work for a fortune 500 company that is highly philanthropic, yet that aspect of the company is seldom known to the general public. Sure charitable donations are disclosed in our financial statements and 10-k and we issue press releases from time to time to announce partnerships or special campaigns but we do not advertise our charitable work. Occasionaly we sell merchandise where the proceeds go directly to charity. In those cases there is full disclosure in which charities receive proceeds, how much of the proceeds or going to charity (you get the idea).

My point is that most ethical for-profit companies do not advertise their charitable endeavors. It is a no no.

kate123 wrote:

KayDee wrote:

kate123 wrote:

Jeepers wrote:Companies that support charitable programs ALL make money from their product .. And ALL choose which charities they choose to support .. PW is no different .. Think Coca Cola .. Avon .. All pro athletic teams .. Etc.......

Once again, it's not the same thing. Coca-Cola does not market its product by saying they're donating money from every purchase to such-and-such a cause. Avon does donate to breast cancer charities, but they're very specific about what you have to buy and how much sale donates.

http://shop.avon.com/shop/product_list.aspx?level1_id=300&level2_id=380&cat_type=C&omnCode=Fundraising

If you go to the People Water website, it's all about their charitable giving. Again, they use it directly to market their product. And if the picture of their bottle is correct, the whole charitable deal is printed on every bottle. So it's really not like Coca Cola or even Avon. Their charitable works are not part of their marketing pitch.

It is, however, like the pink lid campaign from Yoplait and Susan G. Komen. Yoplait uses the pink ribbon to sell more yogurt, Susan G. Komen benefits. And yet, Yoplait published on their website:

General Mills will donate 10 cents to Susan G. Komen for each lid received and also for each code entered by 6/30/2013. Maximum total donation of $2,500,000. We have already donated $500,000. We will donate up to an additional $2,000,000 based on
lids submitted, codes entered and other consumer actions. Look for other ways to trigger donations at SaveLidstoSaveLives.com.

So, that's what I'd like to know from People Water. And if they can't tell me that, maybe they could say how much $$ they donated in the previous year to build wells. But they're very vague about it, which they shouldn't be.

Have you contacted them and they said they couldn't tell you?

If that information is readily available by calling them, don't you think they'd publish it on their website? Here, in fact, is an article written by someone who did try to find out but she was unable to get an answer either.

http://okhereisthesituation.com/2012/05/jef-holm-people-water-and-the-bachelorette/

Here's a breakdown of how much they'd potentially give if they followed their pledge, according to the article.

"Their mission statement is “For every bottle purchased PW will give an equal amount of clean water to a person in need.” So how does the math work when they fund a well? If a well costs $12,000 to drill and produces 1000 liters a day, and lasts for 2 years before breaking/running dry, that’s 730,000 liters or 1.46m of their 500ml bottles. So, they could spread $12,000 over 1.46m bottles, or be giving just $0.008 per bottle. That’s less than 1 cent per bottle. I’m truly hoping that isn’t the case. Even Starbucks’ Ethos water gives a paltry 5 cents per sold bottle. Let’s hope PeopleWater is giving 20 cents or more per bottle."

Here is another comment from the article that explains that they pre-pay for the wells.
"What’s unique about PW is they prepay for the well projects and assign each water bottle and well project with a QR code and a water batch number that corresponds with that well project. As the bottles are sold, a percentage of the sale is used to pay down each well project. If you would like to help fund a well project, purchase a bottle of People Water, scan the QR code, and follow your water project."

So, indeed, they know exactly how much they're donating and attach a well to each bottle through the QR code. They're just not telling the consumer how much per bottle is going to pay the debt. It could be a penny a bottle, it could be ten cents. Again, it leaves a lot of wiggle room.

The normal profit margin on bottle water can be from 50 to 200 percent according to industry figures. A 24 pack of People Water purchased on their website is $45.00 without shipping. The bottles are approximately 17 oz. (16.9) which means this water costs 11 cents per ounce. Even if their profit margin is at the low end for bottled water, that means they they're making $22.50 on each case of water sold.

Now, if they're donating a penny a bottle, I'd say these guys are the biggest con men in the world! That would mean out of every case 24 cents goes to the wells and about $22.00 goes into their pocket. Even at a dime a bottle, that's $2.50 per case with $20.00 in profits.

So you can see how they can play very loose with their money when they don't give the consumer specifics.

ETA: The average cost of a round trip ticket to Ghana is about $2000, so there was a whole new well driving around in that van for the P.R. trip to see two new wells.

The article states that she/he has been researching the company online. No where does it say she called the company and they refused the information. I, personally am not a numbers person so it doesn't matter to me either way. I like the company and what they are doing so I buy from them something I buy anyway. The information on the website is good enough for me. If I was that interested and couldn't get the info, I would call the company directly. I'm done talking about it too. Have a great weekend! :)

Just wanted to say that I am enjoying this informative conversation about PW by all of you business/financial savvy people. I don't have any sort of business/charity background, so I am learning a lot by reading your posts.

Maybe if I start up a new company, People Rocks, I could be a millionaire by Christmas. Since World Over Population and Scarce Resources is such a hot topic these days, maybe I could profit off of other people's concerns and global causes. Say I sell People Rocks ...Think of these as a kind of Pet Rock that symbolize each baby NOT conceived each month in a poor African village. A baby NOT conceived equates to more resources for the village, a good global deed.

So, I go out and collect a stockpile of rocks from my neighborhood for free and with a Sharpie marker I draw a smiley face on each one and brand it with my People Rocks logo. Then I sell them for $45 each and say that a portion of the sale will go towards buying a month's worth of condoms for an African male, which probably could be bought in bulk from a government source or a world charity organization like the Red Cross for pennies. But as long as I tell my condom source that these condoms are going to be donated as

ETA...I will definitely need somebody to help me out with our People Rocks website. We need a way for people to donate to our business, but we won't need to publish any of those testy little details about how many pennies out of each $45 dollar purchase will actually go to our cause. Why bother the little people with such petty details. As long as they feel good about giving, and we feel good about getting (our luxury cars and trips around the globe), it will be a win-win endeavor. Any takers? (pun intended)

jlccaz wrote:Correction (to myself): PeopleWater itself tweeted "now everyone can donate" and gave the link to its own website.

Now that's just not right...not at all!

Mia, I'd love a Pet Rock by People Rocks with Arie's picture in it and a smiley. Could you arrange with your manufacturer to do a special production run of this for Arie's Army? With the amount of People Rocks sold you can stop the population explosion not just in Africa but around the world

iluvMoneyBunn wrote:Mia, I'd love a Pet Rock by People Rocks with Arie's picture in it and a smiley. Could you arrange with your manufacturer to do a special production run of this for Arie's Army? With the amount of People Rocks sold you can stop the population explosion not just in Africa but around the world

Oh, of course. In addition to our standard line of People Rocks which will include generic boys and girl babies, we will include several different specialty lines. In the pipeline we have sport, profession, and celebrity specific PRs, so customers will be able to customize their collections to suit their own tastes.