Off Topic/Miscellaneous Subjects - Discussion

JJjello wrote:Why are some contestants' businesses or charitable endeavors aired on the show and others' not? Ryan's gym was spotlighted, I've seen enough of pw water to last me a lifetime, yet I didn't see any mention of Doug's charity or Zanardi America (Arie's business). Do the contestants pay for advertising on the show?

For all we know, all of the contestants could be heavily involved in charitable work without public knowledge. The fact is that most people who donate to charities etc. do so quietly because that is the classy thing to do.

I work for a fortune 500 company that is highly philanthropic, yet that aspect of the company is seldom known to the general public. Sure charitable donations are disclosed in our financial statements and 10-k and we issue press releases from time to time to announce partnerships or special campaigns but we do not advertise our charitable work. Occasionaly we sell merchandise where the proceeds go directly to charity. In those cases there is full disclosure in which charities receive proceeds, how much of the proceeds or going to charity (you get the idea).

My point is that most ethical for-profit companies do not advertise their charitable endeavors. It is a no no.

In a nutshell.

kate123 wrote:

Jeepers wrote:The condemnation was towards PW .. And their supposed lack of disclosure and product .. Misinformation IMHO .. The info discussed in the post that I responded to appeared to be incorrect .. Just providing an update mam

My question was -- how much of every purchase of People Water goes to building wells? Or, what percentage of the annual profits go to building wells? Is there an answer to that question that I missed? It's a pretty simple question and one that a business marketing themselves through their charitable works should be able to answer. "Arie doesn't disclose how much his t-shirt sale makes" isn't the answer I was looking for.

Item A: it would be good if they disclosed their drop for drop calculation on their website so curious consumers could get the answer to how much of each purchase goes towards the wells. We do understand that they provide a liter for every liter sold, but clearly there is a significant group that would like to know how that translates in US dollars.

Item B: I'll repeat, there cannot be profits, making the equation n/0. Therefore the answer is undefined or infinity. This is not a simple question when a business has committed to fund wells based on its gross sales, and may or may not actually have profits in any given year. I really thought I'd already clarified that. I know business financials; I am 95% certain from everything I've seen that this is NOT currently a profitable company. Which in my mind makes the fact that they are fulfilling their charitable commitment at all to be an indication of how serious they are about it.

Correction (to myself): PeopleWater itself tweeted "now everyone can donate" and gave the link to its own website.

That's shocking, unless it's a donation for some actual charity drive that they are running.

Bet2Win wrote:

JJjello wrote:Why are some contestants' businesses or charitable endeavors aired on the show and others' not? Ryan's gym was spotlighted, I've seen enough of pw water to last me a lifetime, yet I didn't see any mention of Doug's charity or Zanardi America (Arie's business). Do the contestants pay for advertising on the show?

For all we know, all of the contestants could be heavily involved in charitable work without public knowledge. The fact is that most people who donate to charities etc. do so quietly because that is the classy thing to do.

I work for a fortune 500 company that is highly philanthropic, yet that aspect of the company is seldom known to the general public. Sure charitable donations are disclosed in our financial statements and 10-k and we issue press releases from time to time to announce partnerships or special campaigns but we do not advertise our charitable work. Occasionaly we sell merchandise where the proceeds go directly to charity. In those cases there is full disclosure in which charities receive proceeds, how much of the proceeds or going to charity (you get the idea).

My point is that most ethical for-profit companies do not advertise their charitable endeavors. It is a no no.

In a nutshell.

Oh boy do I disagree that advertising corporate philanthropy is a no no. Has everyone forgotten the Chevron "People do" commercials? And exactly what does one call the giant sponsor signs at charitable events; they aren't advertising? Sure, the charity chooses to do that, but they do it because it is part of the package to entice donors; if you aren't offering advertising, you don't get donations. On a $150K budget it would be normal to have 2K in anonymous donations; everyone else knew they would get public recognition for their donation. Individuals get listed on event programs as "gold" and "silver" and "patron" and all those other fancy names indicating donor levels; corporations get full pages in materials, signage all over an event, names on public buildings, and so on. Every pitch made by a charity to a corporation combines the feel good "what your donation will do for the world" component with the pragmatic, "how this helps your business" component.

I've done a LOT of charitable fundraising. Corporations are not motivated by a quiet sense of going good for the world while no one knows about it. If they are making controversial donations then sure, they are quiet, but that is not the norm as I know. From both sides: accounting for it at the corporate level, and soliciting for it at the charitable level.

tigertiz wrote:

Correction (to myself): PeopleWater itself tweeted "now everyone can donate" and gave the link to its own website.

That's shocking, unless it's a donation for some actual charity drive that they are running.

They need to get whoever does the tweets on message. Cody and Jef seem so consistent; this lack of consistency corporate wide could create issues for them.

dw_a_mom wrote:

kate123 wrote:

Jeepers wrote:The condemnation was towards PW .. And their supposed lack of disclosure and product .. Misinformation IMHO .. The info discussed in the post that I responded to appeared to be incorrect .. Just providing an update mam

My question was -- how much of every purchase of People Water goes to building wells? Or, what percentage of the annual profits go to building wells? Is there an answer to that question that I missed? It's a pretty simple question and one that a business marketing themselves through their charitable works should be able to answer. "Arie doesn't disclose how much his t-shirt sale makes" isn't the answer I was looking for.

Item A: it would be good if they disclosed their drop for drop calculation on their website so curious consumers could get the answer to how much of each purchase goes towards the wells. We do understand that they provide a liter for every liter sold, but clearly there is a significant group that would like to know how that translates in US dollars.

Item B: I'll repeat, there cannot be profits, making the equation n/0. Therefore the answer is undefined or infinity. This is not a simple question when a business has committed to fund wells based on its gross sales, and may or may not actually have profits in any given year. I really thought I'd already clarified that. I know business financials; I am 95% certain from everything I've seen that this is NOT currently a profitable company. Which in my mind makes the fact that they are fulfilling their charitable commitment at all to be an indication of how serious they are about it.

I'm curious how you come up with this? There isn't any sales info available. No annual report. They just hired a new CEO. I'd assume they have to pay him, spending more than what they did the previous year. They pre-pay for the wells, so I'd suspect they look at their profit at the end of each fiscal year and invest it in wells, wiping away any profit at all. Two wells in Ghana at $12,000 each means they made a total profit of $24,000 for the previous year? But, that still doesn't give us any idea of how much from each purchase is donated.

They could be selling a bazillion cases of water and Jef could be collecting a million dollar salary and they could still make a profit of $24,000. They aren't a charity, but they market themselves as if they are. I guess we can't expect them to reveal anything they don't want to since they aren't legally obliged to. Or follow the rules that a charity has to. But that just makes me even more suspicious that they've found themselves a slick way to make some fast bucks.

And if you have inside info on the company and don't want to tell, I appreciate that.

They could have pledged to donate profits. Instead they pledged to donate in-kind. So regardless of profit they must make in-kind equivalent donations immediately. Otherwise every bottle is posting a message to consumers that is fraudulent. Therefore they prepay for Wells based upon production not profits. This was their choice in selecting their marketing slogan. Also every bottle has a profit margin, even if overall the company is not at a profitable stage of development.

Seriously???? $45.00 a case and they give about .20 cents for the well??? OMG what a scam they have going!! and all I got to say is that anybody who'd pay that much has a few People Rocks in their head already. I have never paid more than $5.00 for a case of 24 water, and usually can get it on sale for less than $3.00 No wonder he went on the Bach and advertises for it any chance he gets.

kate123 wrote:

The normal profit margin on bottle water can be from 50 to 200 percent according to industry figures. A 24 pack of People Water purchased on their website is $45.00 without shipping. The bottles are approximately 17 oz. (16.9) which means this water costs 11 cents per ounce. Even if their profit margin is at the low end for bottled water, that means they they're making $22.50 on each case of water sold.

I can see what is known as "gross profit" being that high, but not "profit." Profit is what is left after you've paid all the employees, interest on your debts, rent on the office. Gross profit is what is left after production costs ONLY, and even that equation gets difficult, because I have no idea if what you read uses only direct production costs, or makes an attempt at full absorption accounting. Either way, as someone who looks at business numbers for a living, and has advised numerous start ups, I do not believe in your assumptions. They are not "making" $22.50 on every case of water sold, that is simply impossible. I'd bet my mortgage on it, I am that serious.

This is really the difference in how we all view this discussion. If a company is making solid money, a fraction of a cent per bottle is paltry. But if the company is operating at a loss, and employees like Jef are barely paying themselves, it starts to look pretty darn generous. To me, knowing what I know about young companies, it was a very brave pledge. You can't compare PW to long established companies with a history of profits, because that isn't the situation they are in.

I still agree that consumers have a right to understand how much of their $2 purchase goes to wells, because that would be part of making an informed decision when faced with bottled water choices (or just going to your tap and sending a check to generosity water instead).

Since the Board is not that busy right now, I would like to take the floor and say my piece about Bachelorette 8 Show. FYI, I'm the biggest skeptics (not only Ben F) and believes in selective conspiracy theories sometimes. Remember folks, this is my opinion and I have the right to have one. In no way, I'm trying to convince, persuade nor change your perspective regarding the show. This is my own perception and nothing else. In addition, I don't have the intention to offend anyone who doesn't agree with what I'll say nor try to insinuate anything with malice to your favorites.

I believe that Arie fell hard for Emily and vice-versa. Even her word at the ATFR to Chris H before they brought Arie to the stage was "I fell in love with Arie totally and I picked Jef". And I still believe in my heart, that her intention was that Arie will be the last man standing. But the ending showed otherwise......something happened between the FS Dates up to the LCD that can't be explain unless you're one of the Fleiss & Co. people. I have my own scenarios but I'd rather not discuss it, as I'm afraid each and everyone of us has our own version.

Nevertheless, in my mind the finale should not have been the ending.....but it did. So, with that in mind it's my conclusion that, Emily changed her mind at the last minute. I think, she did the show with a variety of goals.......first, use the show as a gateway for her career on TV. Second.....pick the actor/plant (Jef) in the end with a fake/arranged engagement just for show. Third.....falling in love is out of the question.

Now, let me finish before you guys jump on me. I know, some of you believe her that she doesn't want any TV job.......I don't, because Emily was adamant before that she doesn't want to be a Bachelorette (in fact, David Good was emphatic that Emily wants to be the Bachette.....she in turn tweeted David that she doesn't want it). But look what happened.....the rest is history.

In fairness to Emily.....I don't really see it as a bad thing. In fact, I applaud her if this is what she's trying to achieve. It's hard to be dependent and be taken care of by your father or by Ricki's grandparents. For her own self preservation, she needed to do this.....now that she's at the stage of fully maturing and at the same time at Ricki's age, it's about time Emily should spread her wings and go out there and seek job opportunities so that she will be self-sufficient.

This is the only way for her to be independent, get out from her parent's control and the Hendricks stronghold. I'm pretty sure, there are lots of moments that she wants to do things her way, but she can't really because Emily is bound to please her father and the Hendricks whether she likes it or not. It's hard not to!!!

In view of her objective of finding a career and try to earn her livelihood.......I came to a conclusion that she sacrificed her love for Arie. It must be hard......but she has no other option, if she wants to attain respect from others and herself. Maybe, she thought it's high time for her to be on her own, find her destiny and be productive. Anyway, she's only 25 or 26 yrs. old. She's probably thinking, love can wait.

In conclusion........I have the opinion that Emily probably did not anticpated falling in love with someone (Arie) at the show. That's why Emily was conflicted at the LCD with Arie.......but she stuck to her original plan.

JJjello wrote:Why are some contestants' businesses or charitable endeavors aired on the show and others' not? Ryan's gym was spotlighted, I've seen enough of pw water to last me a lifetime, yet I didn't see any mention of Doug's charity or Zanardi America (Arie's business). Do the contestants pay for advertising on the show?

For all we know, all of the contestants could be heavily involved in charitable work without public knowledge. The fact is that most people who donate to charities etc. do so quietly because that is the classy thing to do.

I work for a fortune 500 company that is highly philanthropic, yet that aspect of the company is seldom known to the general public. Sure charitable donations are disclosed in our financial statements and 10-k and we issue press releases from time to time to announce partnerships or special campaigns but we do not advertise our charitable work. Occasionaly we sell merchandise where the proceeds go directly to charity. In those cases there is full disclosure in which charities receive proceeds, how much of the proceeds or going to charity (you get the idea).

My point is that most ethical for-profit companies do not advertise their charitable endeavors. It is a no no.

Speaking of Doug, he recently posted this on twitter.

kate123 wrote:

dw_a_mom wrote:

kate123 wrote:

Jeepers wrote:The condemnation was towards PW .. And their supposed lack of disclosure and product .. Misinformation IMHO .. The info discussed in the post that I responded to appeared to be incorrect .. Just providing an update mam

My question was -- how much of every purchase of People Water goes to building wells? Or, what percentage of the annual profits go to building wells? Is there an answer to that question that I missed? It's a pretty simple question and one that a business marketing themselves through their charitable works should be able to answer. "Arie doesn't disclose how much his t-shirt sale makes" isn't the answer I was looking for.

Item A: it would be good if they disclosed their drop for drop calculation on their website so curious consumers could get the answer to how much of each purchase goes towards the wells. We do understand that they provide a liter for every liter sold, but clearly there is a significant group that would like to know how that translates in US dollars.

Item B: I'll repeat, there cannot be profits, making the equation n/0. Therefore the answer is undefined or infinity. This is not a simple question when a business has committed to fund wells based on its gross sales, and may or may not actually have profits in any given year. I really thought I'd already clarified that. I know business financials; I am 95% certain from everything I've seen that this is NOT currently a profitable company. Which in my mind makes the fact that they are fulfilling their charitable commitment at all to be an indication of how serious they are about it.

I'm curious how you come up with this? There isn't any sales info available. No annual report. They just hired a new CEO. I'd assume they have to pay him, spending more than what they did the previous year. They pre-pay for the wells, so I'd suspect they look at their profit at the end of each fiscal year and invest it in wells, wiping away any profit at all. Two wells in Ghana at $12,000 each means they made a total profit of $24,000 for the previous year? But, that still doesn't give us any idea of how much from each purchase is donated.

They could be selling a bazillion cases of water and Jef could be collecting a million dollar salary and they could still make a profit of $24,000. They aren't a charity, but they market themselves as if they are. I guess we can't expect them to reveal anything they don't want to since they aren't legally obliged to. Or follow the rules that a charity has to. But that just makes me even more suspicious that they've found themselves a slick way to make some fast bucks.

And if you have inside info on the company and don't want to tell, I appreciate that.

I have never, in my career, seen a full on manufacturing company make money in it's first 3 years of existence. EVER. That isn't because the founders pay themselves outrageous salaries; founders usually pay themselves well below market, the minimum it takes to meet their bills.

It is my understanding that the new CEO is CEO because that was his condition for putting cash into the company. Ask yourself why they made that deal.

Manufacturing relies heavily on creditor relationships and no creditor would allow Jef to pay himself a million dollar salary while running a risky, young start up company.

I've had the rich kid client starting a manufacturing company. A brilliant one, in fact, that took off like a rocket. I know what it looks like.

But since I don't have their unique financial information, I did have to leave 5% for doubt.

The PW model is a pledge off the top, before and without relation to profit. They set aside the money to fund the wells off the top, based on codes on the bottles. They have to do that because they say they will do that. To me, the valid criticism is that they must know the number, and just are not sharing it. While I have mixed feelings about how wise it would be to do so, it is a valid question.