Re: Bachelorette 7 Videos - Discussion - Thread #2

by ironcat Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:09 pm

albean99 wrote:
Reidiscool wrote:
allykat wrote:
Reidiscool wrote:Well here's the kicker.... San said at the beginning of the season that JP/Ash reminded her of Ali/Roberto. I was fooled by the Roberto edit because they edited out all substantial conversations between the two and made their relationship "appear" to be superficial. JP and Ash have not been shown to have any substantial conversations either so maybe I'm fooled again. Who knows.

But Ben's edit is different than CLs in one important way in that they have shown us much more of a connection than we were ever shown with CL/Ali

Really? Funny how people see things differently because I think JP and Ash have been nothing but substantial conversations - Bentley, past relationships, how they feel about each other, struggling with the process, etc. In fact, I was glad to see the rollerskating because it was nice to see them just laughing and being goofy for once. Of course, they promptly ruined the fun with a convo about JP's broken heart and how sure he is about them as a couple. Not sure what that means for previous patterns/edits though...

Maybe that's it. All they seem to talk about is his past relationship, how he was hurt before, how can he be sure is feelings are real...all negative stuff which just leaves me with a gloom of foreshadowing. Bentley as a topic of conversation is another interesting thing for me. JP's first date was the day Bentley left and it was short by his own admission. Ash looked emotionally drained and had obviously been crying all day. JPs PI said something along the lines of "I'll touch on Bentley leaving, but then it's our night or something along those lines. The next Bentley conversation was her big declaration to him in HK, his reaction was strange to me and he just seemed relieved that Bent was out of the picture, and not too concerned that Ash had actually really fallen for this guy. Kind of like, one down, 6 to go, until I win this thing. Admittedly Ash gave him lot's of reassurance that it was important that she finished this thing with Bentley in order for Ashley to move forward with JP and we were left with not uncertain impression that it was only JP she wanted to move forward with. The fact that they showed this conversation and nothing of Ben's is a red flag to me. I know something significant happened in HK with Ash and Ben on the night of the RC. His voiceovers that were shown in their one-one time from the HK boat group date actually happened on the night of the HK rose ceremony as he's dressed in his RC suit/tie. These were very powerful statements on Ben's behalf :"My feelings for Ashley are stronger than they've ever been. I'm on the path to Love, Who would have thunk it, the biggest skeptic of all, this guy, the biggest skeptic of all. And "The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that's part of it. At the same time if I end up with a girl that I love then that would be a dream come true" . Something big happened for Ben that night but we weren't shown what prompted these strong statements.

You're really on the ball today and it's keeping my from my chores. That's something I hadn't thought about. We knew that Ben got a chance to talk to Ashley but we weren't shown it. What did we miss? Would it have taken away from the impression that JP was the one she was worried most about?

Well, if there really was a critical conversation to explain how their relationship moved to a deeper level that was left on the cutting room floor, and Ben turns out to be F1, then Fleiss should fire his editing team, because that would be maybe the biggest blunder that anyone who passed Editing 101 should have easily avoided. Absolutely no reason to edit that out, especially since Ben was barely on viewers' radars at that point. So it wouldn't have given anything away, but it would have laid some groundwork for what was to come.

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

by albean99 Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:24 pm

This is just differences in opinion. Very few of us don't have a favorite and didn't have a favorite during Ali's season so can be slanting it our own way. The f2 person doesn't have to be the star of the show just a viable object of the lead's affections. Ben has a really goofy sense of humor and we know they have fun together so that could be shown more if they wanted to. They actually didn't show much of Chris L's real personality because it was always about his mom's death. He's complained about it since the show.

I think some are confusing chemistry with JP's feelings for Ashley. He is obvious but even still there would be plenty of ways they could edit some of it out. We've seen them do it successfully in many seasons and I doubt very much JP is unique.

by Samantharose Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:27 pm

Reality Mary wrote:
albean99 wrote:I don't think you can be impartial if you're a fan of the other guy. :awesome:

I agree with what Reidiscool is saying about them trying to match up Ben to Chris L. I'm not sure why though. The difference was that no matter what people say now, Roberto wasn't nearly as obvious as JP is. They had chemistry but Ali also had a lot going on with Frank and so much happened at the HTD and FD to distract from Roberto. I remember that even though I was a huge Chris L fan that I wasn't sure if Ali picked anyone because she seemed extremely broken up by Frank leaving.

This season Bentley was over earlier so why make JP so obvious and why not make Ben more likely to the viewers? I've been thinking it's the dark horse edit however Reidiscool could be right that the doubt is by editing Ben like Chris L. Food for thought anyway. :Nod:

I don't think they made JP so obvious this season, I think JP made himself obvious. He lights up the room, smiling with that silly grin on his face like a fifth grader with his first crush. What could they do with him because every time Ash was near him he looked like a love struck kid? He was just giddy and I don't think Roberto and Chris L had that exact reaction, they liked Ali but they didn't express it so openly. JMO

That's a really good point! JP did make himself obvious. For example the coin flip kiss. He missed out on the date but took the initiative to make more of an impression of Ash in an interesting way. He seize the opportunity.

by Pattycake92 Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:31 pm

I think they edited out some good stuff beteen JP and Ash. We didn't even see their conversation after the boxing date. Reminded me of when they didn't show Roberto on the ice house date. I wish they would've shown more of he f2 but they were too busy promoting the ...

by Samantharose Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:33 pm

ironcat wrote:
albean99 wrote:
Reidiscool wrote:
allykat wrote:
Reidiscool wrote:Well here's the kicker.... San said at the beginning of the season that JP/Ash reminded her of Ali/Roberto. I was fooled by the Roberto edit because they edited out all substantial conversations between the two and made their relationship "appear" to be superficial. JP and Ash have not been shown to have any substantial conversations either so maybe I'm fooled again. Who knows.

But Ben's edit is different than CLs in one important way in that they have shown us much more of a connection than we were ever shown with CL/Ali

Really? Funny how people see things differently because I think JP and Ash have been nothing but substantial conversations - Bentley, past relationships, how they feel about each other, struggling with the process, etc. In fact, I was glad to see the rollerskating because it was nice to see them just laughing and being goofy for once. Of course, they promptly ruined the fun with a convo about JP's broken heart and how sure he is about them as a couple. Not sure what that means for previous patterns/edits though...

Maybe that's it. All they seem to talk about is his past relationship, how he was hurt before, how can he be sure is feelings are real...all negative stuff which just leaves me with a gloom of foreshadowing. Bentley as a topic of conversation is another interesting thing for me. JP's first date was the day Bentley left and it was short by his own admission. Ash looked emotionally drained and had obviously been crying all day. JPs PI said something along the lines of "I'll touch on Bentley leaving, but then it's our night or something along those lines. The next Bentley conversation was her big declaration to him in HK, his reaction was strange to me and he just seemed relieved that Bent was out of the picture, and not too concerned that Ash had actually really fallen for this guy. Kind of like, one down, 6 to go, until I win this thing. Admittedly Ash gave him lot's of reassurance that it was important that she finished this thing with Bentley in order for Ashley to move forward with JP and we were left with not uncertain impression that it was only JP she wanted to move forward with. The fact that they showed this conversation and nothing of Ben's is a red flag to me. I know something significant happened in HK with Ash and Ben on the night of the RC. His voiceovers that were shown in their one-one time from the HK boat group date actually happened on the night of the HK rose ceremony as he's dressed in his RC suit/tie. These were very powerful statements on Ben's behalf :"My feelings for Ashley are stronger than they've ever been. I'm on the path to Love, Who would have thunk it, the biggest skeptic of all, this guy, the biggest skeptic of all. And "The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that's part of it. At the same time if I end up with a girl that I love then that would be a dream come true" . Something big happened for Ben that night but we weren't shown what prompted these strong statements.

You're really on the ball today and it's keeping my from my chores. That's something I hadn't thought about. We knew that Ben got a chance to talk to Ashley but we weren't shown it. What did we miss? Would it have taken away from the impression that JP was the one she was worried most about?

Well, if there really was a critical conversation to explain how their relationship moved to a deeper level that was left on the cutting room floor, and Ben turns out to be F1, then Fleiss should fire his editing team, because that would be maybe the biggest blunder that anyone who passed Editing 101 should have easily avoided. Absolutely no reason to edit that out, especially since Ben was barely on viewers' radars at that point. So it wouldn't have given anything away, but it would have laid some groundwork for what was to come.

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

If Ben is F1, then TPTb did a disservice to him and Ashley. Why hide the love story? I shouldn't have to hunt for it. Ashley's got alot of explaining to do and a journal isn't going to do it if Ben is F1! LOL I guess we could look at it like maybe she considered JP her last fling before settling down in Sonoma...

by jojo47 Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:41 pm

Samantharose wrote:
ironcat wrote:
albean99 wrote:
Reidiscool wrote:
allykat wrote:
Reidiscool wrote:Well here's the kicker.... San said at the beginning of the season that JP/Ash reminded her of Ali/Roberto. I was fooled by the Roberto edit because they edited out all substantial conversations between the two and made their relationship "appear" to be superficial. JP and Ash have not been shown to have any substantial conversations either so maybe I'm fooled again. Who knows.

But Ben's edit is different than CLs in one important way in that they have shown us much more of a connection than we were ever shown with CL/Ali

Really? Funny how people see things differently because I think JP and Ash have been nothing but substantial conversations - Bentley, past relationships, how they feel about each other, struggling with the process, etc. In fact, I was glad to see the rollerskating because it was nice to see them just laughing and being goofy for once. Of course, they promptly ruined the fun with a convo about JP's broken heart and how sure he is about them as a couple. Not sure what that means for previous patterns/edits though...

Maybe that's it. All they seem to talk about is his past relationship, how he was hurt before, how can he be sure is feelings are real...all negative stuff which just leaves me with a gloom of foreshadowing. Bentley as a topic of conversation is another interesting thing for me. JP's first date was the day Bentley left and it was short by his own admission. Ash looked emotionally drained and had obviously been crying all day. JPs PI said something along the lines of "I'll touch on Bentley leaving, but then it's our night or something along those lines. The next Bentley conversation was her big declaration to him in HK, his reaction was strange to me and he just seemed relieved that Bent was out of the picture, and not too concerned that Ash had actually really fallen for this guy. Kind of like, one down, 6 to go, until I win this thing. Admittedly Ash gave him lot's of reassurance that it was important that she finished this thing with Bentley in order for Ashley to move forward with JP and we were left with not uncertain impression that it was only JP she wanted to move forward with. The fact that they showed this conversation and nothing of Ben's is a red flag to me. I know something significant happened in HK with Ash and Ben on the night of the RC. His voiceovers that were shown in their one-one time from the HK boat group date actually happened on the night of the HK rose ceremony as he's dressed in his RC suit/tie. These were very powerful statements on Ben's behalf :"My feelings for Ashley are stronger than they've ever been. I'm on the path to Love, Who would have thunk it, the biggest skeptic of all, this guy, the biggest skeptic of all. And "The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that's part of it. At the same time if I end up with a girl that I love then that would be a dream come true" . Something big happened for Ben that night but we weren't shown what prompted these strong statements.

You're really on the ball today and it's keeping my from my chores. That's something I hadn't thought about. We knew that Ben got a chance to talk to Ashley but we weren't shown it. What did we miss? Would it have taken away from the impression that JP was the one she was worried most about?

Well, if there really was a critical conversation to explain how their relationship moved to a deeper level that was left on the cutting room floor, and Ben turns out to be F1, then Fleiss should fire his editing team, because that would be maybe the biggest blunder that anyone who passed Editing 101 should have easily avoided. Absolutely no reason to edit that out, especially since Ben was barely on viewers' radars at that point. So it wouldn't have given anything away, but it would have laid some groundwork for what was to come.

As to why Roberto was more hidden than JP, the producers saw Chris as more able to carry the show than they did Ben, IMO, and so highlighted him from the start, and helped make him the "star". They, for some reason, didn't see Ben as having the same "star power" as they did Chris. You work with what you have. Also, Frank stayed around until the penultimate episode, and served as a nice distraction. Bentley left early.

If Ben is F1, then TPTb did a disservice to him and Ashley. Why hide the love story? I shouldn't have to hunt for it. Ashley's got alot of explaining to do and a journal isn't going to do it if Ben is F1! LOL I guess we could look at it like maybe she considered JP her last fling before settling down in Sonoma...

This reminds me of how Brad begged TPTB to show more of the love story between himself and Emily last season. His begging occurred while the show was airing. Emily felt the same way ~ she thought she was editted as boring and that the story showed a better and more fun connection between Brad & Chantal.

by skitts Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:48 pm

Why hide the love story? That's their MO. They always shoot for "gotcha"! This show is not about showing a love story but about hiding the love story in the hopes for a "BANG" at the end. If they can do that, they will, plain and simple!!!

by albean99 Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:56 pm

skitts wrote:Why hide the love story? That's their MO. They always shoot for "gotcha"! This show is not about showing a love story but about hiding the love story in the hopes for a "BANG" at the end. If they can do that, they will, plain and simple!!!

I don't get why but you're exactly right, Skitts. A lot of time we manage to see the love story despite their good intentions. :laughingoutlou

by Reidiscool Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:29 pm

Just a response to Ironcat's comments re. impartiality. I actually do think I am impartial this season. I have no vested interest in either guy! My life will not be turned upside down if JP is Ash's man. I'm just trying to make sense of how they have edited this season. And to me my thoughts make more sense as a Ben F1.

It's not that I can't see a case for a JP F1 too...especially given our usual clues due to twitter and invisibility. I have to consider also that for this season not to be a complete cinch after Bentley left that may have had to edit JP this way to create doubt.

by Samantharose Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:38 pm

Pattycake92 wrote:I think they edited out some good stuff beteen JP and Ash. We didn't even see their conversation after the boxing date. Reminded me of when they didn't show Roberto on the ice house date. I wish they would've shown more of he f2 but they were too busy promoting the ...

On the HTD JP said it was between Phuket and HK where things got serious between them. We missed a darn important conversation!!

by CarrieA Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:48 pm

Samantharose wrote:
Pattycake92 wrote:I think they edited out some good stuff beteen JP and Ash. We didn't even see their conversation after the boxing date. Reminded me of when they didn't show Roberto on the ice house date. I wish they would've shown more of he f2 but they were too busy promoting the ...

On the HTD JP said it was between Phuket and HK where things got serious between them. We missed a darn important conversation!!

Just like we missed Iceland with Ali and Robertito in the special cave she saved for him.

by mnmhughes Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:49 pm

CarrieAlexander wrote:
Samantharose wrote:
Pattycake92 wrote:I think they edited out some good stuff beteen JP and Ash. We didn't even see their conversation after the boxing date. Reminded me of when they didn't show Roberto on the ice house date. I wish they would've shown more of he f2 but they were too busy promoting the ...

On the HTD JP said it was between Phuket and HK where things got serious between them. We missed a darn important conversation!!

Just like we missed Iceland with Ali and Robertito in the special cave she saved for him.

Exact same episode too, wasn't it?

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