Bachelorette Ukraine - Season 1 - Ksenia Mishina - Episode Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

natik wrote:snipped

Regarding Aleksey it is interesting what Ksenia said during their date on her ITM. She said "this man would love me and my son". See what she did there?! She didn´t said "I can see love him". Plus I think you can buy the love of a kid maybe for hours or days but you will still be a "brick" to that kid.

That comment sounds like a F2/F3 position. The lead knows he's a good fit in many ways but she's not in love with him.

I'm looking forward to when she meets the guys families and when they meet hers!

I wanted to say that watching the scenes between Ksenia and Sasha for me was fun. What I see is a couple getting to know each other, who is comfortable with who they are and open to the possibilities of a relationship and what it entails.
Ksenia IMO is extremely relaxed with Sasha.
He's attentive to her needs.
During the extreme date, he was protective and cautious. I loved how he blew on her neck to cool/calm her down, flick open the window, pull her in to comfort her. You know that bananas are recommended after workouts etc
His home was natural for a guy who does whatever Sasha does . You know, I think he will be 80-years and still be Sasha. Of course there was no food in the fridge... he's away on the project. BUT I liked that they went to the guys' homes.
What did Sasha say about the pictures of him and Andrej? This is important because this episode was a revelation and confessions. Did he talk about his friendship with Andrej.
During the session with Grisha and the therapist was it about the intent of the guys being on the show? WHY did it appear (or the show reason) to highlight Sasha... I saw a cut portion that show him and Ksenia being just fine.

Eugene, I think is a great catch, but like @agent99 said, he needs his own princess to create HIS other achievement. Eugene may also be a perfectionist. He's about continuing to better his life. His apartment was not disturbed; perfect.
What was his response during the session? What did Ksenia say to him at the Rose ceremony?

I like Aleksey but I find him to be boring... maybe because he's following what production wants and not being entirely himself.
What I like about this show is that it seems the guys got along and liked each other. He laughs it up with them but he's also watching and plotting it seems and less relax as if he wants to win the prize.
Does he have a lot of money? Buying gifts can be expensive.
What did he say during the session to cause Ksenia to give him a sweet smile. What did she say to him at the Rose ceremony?
Seems he's a favorite all around. I wonder if there're skeletons in his closet.

I am going to just ask you to fully explain what the situation was with Andrej. I saw that he wrote a post about his relationship with Sasha and how important it is for him. Seems he was blatantly honest...
Was Sasha worry about Andrej leaving the show during the Rose ceremony? Seems Ksenia was upset and confused. What was her reaction to everything?

WHY keep Andrej on the show Other than for Drama.
AND, you had previously mentioned about it appearing Sasha may be next to leave the show. That preview was so bias against Sasha IMO.

Also, what happened at the after show?

@GuardianAngel Oh I think next weeks episode is going to be as much as nerve wrecking as the last episode.

I am gonna explain later a little bit why.

Idlemess wrote:
I wanted to say that watching the scenes between Ksenia and Sasha for me was fun. What I see is a couple getting to know each other, who is comfortable with who they are and open to the possibilities of a relationship and what it entails.
Ksenia IMO is extremely relaxed with Sasha.
He's attentive to her needs.
During the extreme date, he was protective and cautious. I loved how he blew on her neck to cool/calm her down, flick open the window, pull her in to comfort her. You know that bananas are recommended after workouts etc
His home was natural for a guy who does whatever Sasha does . You know, I think he will be 80-years and still be Sasha. Of course there was no food in the fridge... he's away on the project. BUT I liked that they went to the guys' homes.
What did Sasha say about the pictures of him and Andrej? This is important because this episode was a revelation and confessions. Did he talk about his friendship with Andrej.
During the session with Grisha and the therapist was it about the intent of the guys being on the show? WHY did it appear (or the show reason) to highlight Sasha... I saw a cut portion that show him and Ksenia being just fine.

Ok I know I have a lot of things to explain so let us do it step by step as usually.

You got it everything right here about the date between Sasha and Ksenia. That is the main point they can be themself with each other. There is no pretending to be someone you are not. And that is the point right? To find a person who is going to accept you the way you are with whom you can be yourself. Regarding the pictures with Andrej, it was not that important. Ksenia just mentioned how strong their friendship seems to be. And later what was happening between Ksenia and Andrej had nothing to do with Sasha. But we will be there soon enough. Let us go back to Sasha and Ksenia. Regarding his apartment Ksenia said it felt like it is a temporary apartment for him because it seemed like it had no soul. And Sasha himself told her that he works a lot and does not spent a lot of time in his apartment. The most important part of their date beside the intimacy they had was their conversation. That was the most real conversation I heard on the project since a long time. They spoke about substantial things, about things that are important to know when you want to start a serious relationship after the finale. They spoke about their habits, they spoke how each of them like to spent their free time, they spoke about cooking. Ksenia said she is a bad cooker. Sasha said he can cook some dishes. Ksenia and Sasha spoke about, when it is the right time to move together. Ksenia said to him she is ready to move with him together already after a week. And the most important topic was brought by Sasha. He initiated to speak about finances. He openly told her how much he earns. Asked her how much she spends money on herself in a month. He said if it is not enough he is open to take more gigs. She said that she is not a money hungry person. She said that she is supporting her parents entirely on her own. In general she thinks that if they are gonna life together and build a relationship, she is not gonna separate her money or his money, it is going to be their money.
They are trying to paint Sasha as someone who is not secure in his feelings for her but you can't hide it even with the edit. It is in the way he looks at her and in the way he touches her. He is the only one who is not in the Lala-dream-land. He is trying to understand if it is going to work for them outside the Bachelorette bubble. He is a serious guy who has his principles and he is someone who is not playing the game the producers want him to play. He told to Ksenia that he doesn't want a third divorce in his life so it is important for him to know her more before he is going to open her soul and heart.

And now we have the contrast to Aleksey. Dude is so vanilla it is even disgusting. He is such a lapdog to the producers and Ksenia. He doesn't ask her anything, at that point I am even wondering if he even knows who Ksenia is beside, "Ksenia the actress" and "Ksenia the Bachelorette"? Does he know what makes her laugh? Does he know what makes her cry? What she likes to do in her all day life? It is like he would be in love with everyone who would be the Bachelorette. It doesn't matter for him. As you just perfectly pointed it out he wants to win the trophy. He is telling and promising her everything she wants to hear. He is not showing to the fullest his real self he is showing only what he thinks Ksenia wants to see. Sasha is not hiding his real self. What you see is what you get. And Sasha could have had it so easy by sugarcoating her but he does not doing it. He speaks sometimes about things in awareness that she would probably not like to hear them.
You know what I remembered about Aleksey in the previous episodes. Once Ksenia said that he is just too perfect to be true and if he has some negative sides about him. And he answered that he doesn't like to loose. After watching his date I got it. He wants to buy her love. By the way those things he "bought" her are sponsored things. It is the advertisement for the shop they were in. I mean he is not poor but he is definitely not as rich as he wants to make us believe.
One moment was interesting Ksenia asked him how he sees a perfect morning. He said to her that he is seeing how they are waking up together and she is making breakfast and they are all having a breakfast and she is kinda kissing him goodbye to his work. I mean I hope he didn´t forgot that she is an actress and that she has often shifts at night. It is like he is ignoring the fact that she is not going to be a Stepford wife. All his dreams about their future are like those picture perfect advertisement scenes. Have you by any chance watched the movie "Pleasantville"? if you have you will know what I mean regarding Aleksey and his dreams of the future. It is like he is completely ignoring that there can be also bad times in a relationships. It is all sunshine and rainbows for him.
But you know viewers are willing to eat it up. So I guess that edit works for the producers.

Oh by the way I forgot about the skeletons of Aleksey. There are for sure some but the producers are not gonna show them. It doesn't fit their purpose.
But I find it interesting that he was in two long time relationships. The first one lasted three years and the second one seven years and both times he did not even proposed to that women. And now all of sudden he is ready to move in together with Ksenia like yesterday and is ready to take the responsibility for her and her kid. His answer was also very interesting "let us move in together and try...and if it doesn't work...we gonna move out". And in comparison Sasha "I don't want to fail for the third time".
By the way Ksenia answered to Aleksey that she needs to think about it before moving in together with him.

Ok let us speak about the Andrej disaster. Oh boy that was a shocker and not in a good way. So what was it all about.

Andrej decided to tell Ksenia the truth about his motives to take part in the project. He told her that he was starting to date a woman named Alina when he decided to go on the project. So practically he was in a relationship while dating Ksenia on the project. Before going on the project Andrej promised Alina that it is just work for him and that he is not going to fall in love with Ksenia. To be honest with you I was sitting there and watching in disbelief. It was like WTH is going on right now? Ok but the best part is here to come. He was telling the truth to Ksenia because while being on the project he all of sudden realized that he is now in love with Ksenia. So Alina is in the past for him. And he told Ksenia that now it is on her to decide what is going to happen next with him.
I don't know that guy is just a mess. It does not seem to me like he actually really knows what he wants. Oh no stop I am lying, he wants desperately to be loved by a woman.
So Ksenia left and at the rose ceremony they had a private talk. He swore to her that he loves her and that he means it. So she gave him the rose.
If you ask me, I think the producers wanted for Ksenia to give him the rose, because of the whole best friends are in love with the same woman and now they are in the F3 drama. Plus Ksenia said that she does feel nothing for Eugene and she thought it would not be fair to give him more hope. So that is the reason why she let him go home.

On the after show they spoke a lot about the Andrej story. Sasha was asked if he knew about the relationship between Andrej and Alina. Sasha said he knows who Alina is but he had no idea that there was a thing going on between those two.

It is really late I am going to bed. I am gonna answer more of the questions tomorrow.

Thanks for all the info @natik. I am really enjoying the show.

natik wrote:

Agent99 wrote:@natik  If you have time, could you please explain what the argument between Andrej and Ksenia was about?  It seemed to go on and on the whole episode.  Also, the pictures of Andrej and his mother - did something happen to her, or, as you've already said he didn't have a loving childhood, perhaps she was an absent mother?  Honestly, I don't know if Ksenia likes him or not.  She could have kissed him in the spa if she really wanted to - I've seen messier kisses before .

I can see how they are trying to make Aleksey a viable alternative to Sasha.  He is going to be dependable and a rock to Ksenia, and will do absolutely all it takes to make her happy

At the rose ceremony, was there another misunderstanding between Sasha and Ksenia?  She seemed unimpressed with his gift and he seemed deflated afterwards  

@Idlemess I agree with you about Evgeny.  I like him too, but I suspect he may be happier with a "princess" type, rather than an independent woman like Ksenia.

Andrej`s parents are divorced and when he was a kid they were fighting all the time. So they were busy with their toxic relationship and not with their son. And later when they got divorced Andrej lost the connection to his father. That is the reason why he is thirsty for attention, validation and love. To be honest with you I think Ksenia and Andrej both don't like each other. I think the producers insisted too keep him longer because of the whole triangle and friendship thing. Because it causes more drama for the viewers. Judging by her body language she is not very excited to be intimate with him.

So they had that group date and it started with kinda like a game. Everyone should say what he was worried about and then let it go and forget and forgive. Ksenia started with Evgeny. She said that she heard that he doesn't want to be a father figure for her son and that he is not going to take part in his parenting because it is not his own child. Evgeny tried to explain it but basically it didn't change anything because the sense of what he was saying stayed the same.

Then she said to both Sasha and Andrej that she is still unsure whether they are interested in her. And that was the reason why Andrej ticked off. He said that he thought they already discussed that topic during their last date and that it was all good. He got more into detail what they were discussing during their date and Sasha was starting to feel uncomfortable. And Sasha explained it in his ITM. He said it felt for him like Andrej and Ksenia are having a deeper connection and kinda like building already love together. He continued that he thought that him and Ksenia had something special but now he doesn't think so anymore.
So he said after the fight to Ksenia that he is still guarding himself because he is scared that she is going to hurt him.
Later during the one on one conversation she asked him why he thinks that she is going to hurt him? He said that he had already two divorces and before that he opened up to his ex-wife`s but was hurt that both times it didn´t worked out. He said that this is the reason why he is taking time to learn more about her because he wants to be sure that this time it works out for him. On a side note I have a lot of respect for him because he didn´t once blamed his ex-wife`s for anything. He was praising them and didn´t even once said a bad word about them. Instead he took all the blame on him.
Ksenia said to him that he needs to understand that she is different. And she asked did you learned your lesson after the divorces and he answered "yes". She continued "Trust Sasha, it is important for you to trust me. Because I don't want for you to have strange thoughts going through your mind".
Regarding the rose ceremony I think he was a little bit disappointed because he was expecting a more serious sign from her. I am gonna explain what I mean. During their conversation Sasha tried to say to her that he is in love with her. But because it is hard for him to say it openly he said it in his own unique way. He said to her that he thought about a thing. Kind of a rate system for feelings. He said he has two options in his rate system. The first one there is love and the second one there is no love. And going by his rate system he is in love with her. That is the reason why she was beaming at one point during their conversation. So in his video message before the rose ceremony he suggested for her to think about her own rate system. And during the rose ceremony she said something like, her rate system is if there is a rose or if there is no rose. And today there is a rose for him. I guess he expected something more substantial. I guess for him it sounded more like "Today I have feelings for you but tomorrow maybe not anymore".

Regarding Aleksey it is interesting what Ksenia said during their date on her ITM. She said "this man would love me and my son". See what she did there?! She didn´t said "I can see love him". Plus I think you can buy the love of a kid maybe for hours or days but you will still be a "brick" to that kid.

Thank you @natik ! Your insight helps a lot. I've been away for a few days so I am a little behind, but really looking forward to watching the latest episode.

Well that ep had a lot of Andrej.  Is he still there because Ksenia likes him, or is it just because of the drama he brings. I think it is the drama, and because of that, maybe he is F2.  I still find it hard to believe that Ksenia would take Sasha's good friend to F2, but this is the bach so who knows what TPTB are up to.  It's probably too good an opportunity to pass up.  @natik is Andrej well regarded by the viewers? Is there a chance for him to be the Bachelor or is he too problematic?

I thought Lyosha's date was just a big ewwww.  I hate it when my partner comes shopping with me, so I may be biased, and this also could be a cultural difference, but it was a big no for me.  Maybe Ksenia has never had someone like him in her life before and that is comforting for her, but when they were at his house I saw the strain in her face. Trying too hard to smile all the time and not a person in love imo.

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I noticed that her itms were filmed later too, probably to fit the narrative of Lyosha as a contender.

And then what a contrast Sasha's date was.  There is real familiarity and intimacy between them and Sasha is really zeroing in imo. You could drown in that man's eyes. If TPTB are trying to frame the narrative as Sasha not being interested enough, I'm not buying it .  When they went to his small apartment, did Sasha say something about getting a house together with their children?  It was very sweet.

@Sprite Glad to hear that!

Idlemess wrote:Ummm what did I just watched? Like what in the bleep bleep happened? I’ve never wanted to understand a show as much as I do this one, especially this episode.

Q&A session. Was that an opportunity to throw Sasha under the bus? What was that about? Their feelings for Ksenia?
So strange!
Talking to the therapist , Ksenia was sitting and acting interested with the pillow on her lap however during the chat about Sasha her body language relaxed and there’s no pillow 🧐
To me, she smirks quite a bit.

Ok let us move on.

So in the beginning of the episode Grisha suggests to play a game. He asked for everyone to write down questions to each other Ksenia including.
Sasha said on his ITM that he didn´t had second thoughts on his mind while writing down questions. So his questions were harmless. In comparison to that it was interesting which questions Aleksey wrote down. One of his questions was aimed to Eugene. Oh by the way of course those questions were anonymous. So he asked Eugene if his real motives to be on the project are maybe because of more insta followers and because he wants to start a political carrier. Eugene was shocked to hear such kind of questions. He answered that it is not the case.
Ksenia asked Sasha how he is when he is in love. And there was also a question if he is in love now.
Sasha said he doesn't want to answer those kind of questions in front of all. In his ITM he said that he thinks it is not the right place and time to open up his soul and heart because it is not the business of the other guys what he is feeling. He said love and feelings are something intimate and deep and nothing that you are sharing with some random people.
Later during their individual date Sasha mentioned that questions again. The guys found out who asked which questions and Sasha knew by the time of their date that those questions about love were asked by her. He said that when he is in love he is sometimes confused, he is doing crazy or stupid things, sometimes he is lost, unsure, he don't know what to do and if what he is doing is right. So he is a little bit of everything he mentioned. And he also said that he is in love with her and that is the reason why he seems sometimes so confusing to her.
Back to the game.
There was also a question about the friendship between Andrej and Sasha. It was asked that if Ksenia is gonna choose either Andrej or Sasha, would they accept it or would they still fight for Ksenia. Obviously a very provocative question. Both Sasha and Andrej said that they would accept it and would not interfere in the relationship.
There was also a therapist in a hide room who was seeing all of what happened during that question game on the monitors. She said to Ksenia that it could be that Eugene is hiding something or that he is maybe lying. Because he was touching his nose when he was answering the question regarding his motives. About Aleksey she said that he is a stable guy. Regarding the friendship between Andrej and Sasha she said that also they are trying to stay relax she still feels some tensions between them.
Regarding Sasha why he doesn't want to answer the questions about love she said that he has feelings but it is difficult for him to open up because she thinks that maybe he had a traumatized experience in a relationship with a woman in his past. And that is the reason why he is so reserved in his expression.
Ksenia asked the therapist what she thinks which man fits her the best. The therapist said to her it depends what she wants stability or happiness. But in general she suggested to Ksenia to listen to her heart. She said it is always the best solution to listen what her heart is saying to her.

Idlemess wrote:

Eugene, I think is a great catch, but like @agent99 said, he needs his own princess to create HIS other achievement. Eugene may also be a perfectionist. He's about continuing to better his life. His apartment was not disturbed; perfect.  
What was his response during the session? What did Ksenia say to him at the Rose ceremony?

I like Aleksey but I find him to be boring... maybe because he's following what production wants and not being entirely himself.
What I like about this show is that it seems the guys got along and liked each other. He laughs it up with them but he's also watching and plotting it seems and less relax as if he wants to win the prize.
Does he have a lot of money? Buying gifts can be expensive.
What did he say during the session to cause Ksenia to give him a sweet smile. What did she say to him at the Rose ceremony?
Seems he's a favorite all around. I wonder if there're skeletons in his closet.

I am going to just ask you to fully explain what the situation was with Andrej. I saw that he wrote a post about his relationship with Sasha and how important it is for him. Seems he was blatantly honest...
Was Sasha worry about Andrej leaving the show during the Rose ceremony?

As mentioned she said to Eugene that there were no chemistry between them and that she felt like he gave up on them at some point.

To Aleksey she said that how can someone speak about moving in together and speak about building a family when he didn´t even shared to her what he feels.

Sasha was not worried about Andrej he was confused because he didn't understood what was going on between Andrej and Ksenia. I even had a feeling at some point that he thought she is gonna choose Andrej in the finale. He mentioned it already in episode 6 that he thinks like there is some deep connection going on between Andrej and Ksenia. He thinks that they are already building a relationship on the project.