Hannah Brown - Bachelorette 15 - Discussion #2

@wishesfireworks I agree, as a white woman it's not my place to say if Hannah's apology is accepted or not, because she doesn't have to apologize to me. But as her follower her apology does read sincere to me, although not sufficient for the whole issue I have with HB (I've discussed lengthily before). And for that I don't feel needing help in understanding the gravity of what Hannah did. Sincere but still not enough aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe I just don't dislike Hannah despite all of it. If down the line she shows not to be the person I think she is I will simply unfollow and forget about her. That's not cancelling her, that's just me not caring anymore. So far, for whatever reason, I still do, that's why I "waste time" here.

GuardianAngel wrote:@Idlemess thank you for sharing your personal stories.

We've be learning for 100's of years, it's sad there are some who just don't feel any empathy for those that suffered before us and those that continue to suffer with the use of such derogatory vocabulary.

No problem.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
We can preach, march and teach, but if people are unwilling to learn about history, civility and humanity then right will be wrong and wrong will be right.

Hannah making a flippant apology and then silence says more than I need to know about her.
This situation is about her ignorance. I don’t know her personally nor have I heard any stories about her past behavior of slurs or insensitivity re cultural matters. I don’t follow her period (or any BN contestants).

People asked how can Hannah fans defend her ‘gaffe’ and my response is that it is easy for them to do so. Just look at the Admaud Arbery murder and people bending over backwards to explain why he was hunted and murdered. That’s it!

What if Hannah doesn't want to put out a formal apology because she doesn't see anything wrong with what she did. If she has a PR agent wouldn't they suggest something be posted asap?

IMHO Rachel reached out to her to simply educate her and help her, Hannah didn't accept that help. She has IDK million followers? She could have quite easily put out a statement not to attack other's for their opinions, but she has chosen to let her fans continue to worship her and trash others. Those three items tell me all I need to know. No Help, half azzed apology, no statement to her fans re trashing other's = outcome of an immature spoiled brat.

I don't think she cares and if she does say anything going forward, it's simply IMHO the pressure she might be feeling. She's better off not to say anything because at this point, it won't come across as sincere. I'm sure it will be all about her and what she's been through.

If I did something unintentionally and taken the wrong way, I'd be apologizing profusely. Her not so much.

As far as the other contestants opinions, maybe she should listen to them and learn something from them.

It's sickening to me that we have to have this discussion in 2020. We are all human FGS.

@GuardianAngel  I don't agree with this take that "she is letting her fans worship her" by not speaking out. I'm reading comments online and many of her fans are waiting for Hannah next statement because for them, just like for me, her only IG story apology isn't enough. Her fans would like to see her be more outspoken on the issue and her learning, because at the moment they are putting their trust/benefit of the doubt on the line.

Those obsessed fans that worship her have very little to do with what Hannah actually does or says, because it's all in their head. And that goes for any stan, just like Eminem wrote in his song. Those people are creating their own "reality" that is shaped by their needs to justify own behavior and as passionately they can stan they can also turn around and hate (her) when their own vision doesn't meet reality. That means that Hannah is just a vehicle for their need to despise what doesn't meet their criteria.

I'm actually getting a sense that many Hannah's critics have a bigger issue with Hannah still having such a large following. I'm reading Reddit and different IG pages too and the vibe from those commentators is that she should be brought down a peg or 2. People seem to seek not just her being accountable for her words, but want her suffer repercussions too. Some call that justice. I don't.

Also, I don't like the situation that has been created by Hannah's silence either, because many of her fans are being shamed and insulted too just for their remaining support of her despite voicing their disagreement with her actions. But I guess they aren't that important as public figures who are attacked by stans.

IMO I think Hannah definitely knows she did something wrong, but as usual she’s putting her feelings above everything else. She feels stupid & embarrassed. Her fans & other racists might be defending her on SM, but the backlash from her peers, public figures, and media outlets has been universal.

Her singing the n-word was disappointing, but ultimately not unforgivable imo. Her reaction to it has been the worst part of this whole thing. I can get past her making a (very) stupid mistake, but her unwillingness to truly accept responsibility and offer a genuine mea culpa is what I can’t get past. All she cares about is her own embarrassment and not wanting to deal with the consequences of what she did. Meanwhile the black members of BN (& everyone else who’s dare to critique her) have been getting harassed and sent disgusting messages by her supporters while she’s remained silent. Says a lot about her character.

I’ll also say that Rachel offered her a lifeline (which she absolutely did not have to do). Doing that IG live with her and showing true contrition would’ve gone a long way in moving past this. When it comes to both decency and from a PR perspective she’s handled this about as poorly as she could.

All jmo.

Hannah needs to rip the band-aid off and muster up the sincerest apology to the African American community she offended.

I enjoy Hannah. Do I care if I don't see her again? Not at all; it's not like we occupy the same space.

@wishesfireworks @ReneeM, thanks for your very insightful posts.

@happygolucky, I believe in the saying, to whom much is given, much is expected. I hear what you are saying about Hannah not being responsible for her fans but you realize that during the Gigi saga, Hannah did an IG story asking her fans that they should not bring other women down to uplift another one. So if she had the mindset to do that back then, what’s stopping her now from doing the same in this situation. There is an HB fan page ran by a teenage African American girl that idolizes HB. I would post screen caps of the vile / hateful comments  that HB’s middle aged fans that should know better sent this girl but I can’t strike out the offensive words, folks even said to this young girl that they would not have followed her account if they knew she was a N*****. For at least the sake of these young fans, HB needs to call off her rabid fans IMO. I read though that the younger fans on tik tok are not standing for this and actually speaking up on HB’s tik tok page compared to her IG page that supposedly is infiltrated by her middle aged rabid fans. That the younger generation gets it gives me hope & encouragement for the future, all jmho.

Idlemess wrote:Snipped ....
What’s not okay is the lack of knowledge, the insensitivity, the privilege, the lack of conscious thoughts and feelings, the lack of awareness and the oblivion.

Thank you and bless you for sharing.

@Chgohighlife, I agree that Hannah should have handed this off immediately to a PR person that specializes in crisis management. I'm at a loss as to why she wouldn't do this.

As for celebrity hero worship, I've seen it happen before. I think there is something in human nature that wants to put people on pedestals. If you say anything even mildly negative (and there's *always* some minor flaw or another) about someone's hero, watch the claws come out. You would think we'd all know this, being reality TV fans, but some people just don't want to hear it.

Amethyst wrote:@Chgohighlife, I agree that Hannah should have handed this off immediately to a PR person that specializes in crisis management. I'm at a loss as to why she wouldn't do this.

As for celebrity hero worship, I've seen it happen before. I think there is something in human nature that wants to put people on pedestals. If you say anything even mildly negative (and there's *always* some minor flaw or another) about someone's hero, watch the claws come out. You would think we'd all know this, being reality TV fans, but some people just don't want to hear it.

Hi @Amethyst
Good to see you. I think something happened between Hannah and her management company and she fired them. They are no longer in her bio. I said many pages ago that the firm she was with was too huge and they were paying zero attention to her. I think perhaps she did reach out to them but, they just flipped her a suggestion instead of taking care of her. 
Crisis management is crucial to sustaining popularity and image. At the same time, she has fans most people wouldn’t want and she should take a chance on losing them by taking a stand against racism. Clean house. What 24 year old needs their filthy baggage? It hasn’t served them well and it won’t serve her well, either. All IMO.

mercieme wrote:snipped...

I believe in the saying, to whom much is given, much is expected. I hear what you are saying about Hannah not being responsible for her fans but you realize that during the Gigi saga, Hannah did an IG story asking her fans that they should not bring other women down to uplift another one. So if she had the mindset to do that back then, what’s stopping her now from doing the same in this situation. There is an HB fan page ran by a teenage African American girl that idolizes HB. I would post screen caps of the vile / hateful comments  that HB’s middle aged fans that should know better sent this girl but I can’t strike out the offensive words, folks even said to this young girl that they would not have followed her account if they knew she was a N*****. For at least the sake of these young fans, HB needs to call off her rabid fans IMO. I read though that the younger fans on tik tok are not standing for this and actually speaking up on HB’s tik tok page compared to her IG page that supposedly is infiltrated by her middle aged rabid fans. That the younger generation gets it gives me hope & encouragement for the future, all jmho.

I had to read this a couple of times because I couldn't believe what I was reading.

I totally agree with the bold. In her half azzed apology she said she would "do better". I'm not sure what that means because if you have to "think" about not using racist words, there is a problem right them. However, she isn't "doing better" by doing nothing to tell her racists fans to stop. JMO

TY for the facts.

@2ndcampbell, I agree, Hannah needs to rip the band aid off.  

Hannah has said that she likes to think things through and I'm sure she needed to take some time to process all that has happened.  I think she should make a sincere statement, sooner rather than later, apologize for offending anyone, post it to her SM accounts, and not just as a story and leave it at that.  If I were her I wouldn't talk with Rachel or anyone else.   Give a heartfelt apology and move on.  People will either accept it or not, if they're not going to accept it, talking with Rachel or anyone else won't change their minds either.

Maybe do a video apology and post to her feed and not to her story, maybe that would help for those that want an on camera apology.