Hannah Brown - Bachelorette 15 - Discussion #2

so i’m going to call myself out here. ‍� in my first post i typed “blacks” and honestly didn’t realize that was offensive. i don’t think i’ve ever used that word before as i usually use african american but noticed no one here was using that and it is a lot of letters to type on my phone. so, i thought i was just shortening “black people” to type even fewer letters and to not keep repeating black people over and over. nope, i ended up using a term that is offensive and i want to apologize for that. i definitely won’t ever use it again. these conversations are necessary, and it’s not the responsibility of black people to educate us, because so many of us still have a lot to learn despite not wanting to ever hurt others. again, i’m truly sorry for that.

@mercieme @wishesfireworks
I have no problem with Rachel or Nick for calling Hannah out, not only for her discussed action, but also for inaction later, but I agree with @FLChica that Hannah's choice to not do live/public video with Rachel is within Hannah's right to decide how and when she will address the issue she created. Hannah listened to Rachel's hurt feelings and accepted her POV when they discussed prior to HB's posted IG story/apology. There was no confirmation that she was going to do her apology with Rachel, that's what the sources disclosed. Rachel has every right to feel hurt, disrespected and maybe rejected, not heard by Hannah ignoring (without explanation) her gracious  invitation. But those are Rachel's feelings (my assumption).

As a "viewer" I don't think Hannah's declining this opportunity makes Hannah's apology (the short 24h one) any less sincere. But the apology itself needs to go to B/POC (and their right to decide whether to accept), while there are Hannah's actions going forward and her stand that are really put in question and are going to be judged. Judged whether people still want to follow/support her or not. There are many fans of Hannah who aren't even listening to Hannah, but are forming their own narrative of Hannah and spreading hate. That has been going on for quite some time and I don't agree with Nick V. that it's in Hannah's power to direct them, because the huge/larger followings unfortunatelly have this negative side, whether is HB or Justin Bieber (just to name one). She can't control her following, nobody can.

She can though speak clearly where she stands and that's what "the call-out" IMO is about and I agree with it. She should. Because that's the measurement which gives people the possibility to decide where they stand with her.

Nick's gossip mouth has been bothering me for some time. Anyone knowing me here knows how much I supported him since the beginning, but I can't shake the hypocricy of him spreading the allusions and insinuations while generalizing "his contact's experiences within BN". I was against that when it was happening to/with him time ago and yet he seems to not mind doing it to others. I don't care who you are, give me facts and I will decide for myself how I will value/regard them. I don't need Nick to tell me his interpretation of unknown facts to steer my opinion of anyone. I happen to have my own interpretation of Hannah's time on DWTS and it's not DIVA related at all. Many DWTS people are still friends with Hannah, including Peta, Nick's dancing partner, who despite being friends with he seems to not be as close to anymore. It's called life and own necessities and priorities. If Hannah's priority is not to maintain friendships within BN that doesn't mean anything negative to me, in general, and it isn't a proof/measurement of her "feeling herself too much".

Ilo wrote:What’s the possibility that she’s done? That removing all the links to her agencies means that she is stepping away from all of this forever and going back to just being a normal person living a normal life? I could see it. I don’t know... it may just all be too much for her and she could feel there is no coming back from this.  Just something I’ve been wondering.

Hannah will never "be done." She loves the spotlight too much. Jmho.

I've read some comments online and people (BN) urging Hannah to "call off her dogs" from attacking Rachel, Nick, etc.

Now, I love dogs, I have a dog, I treat him ... like a dog. People are humans, with brains, supposedly for reasoning, yet often use very little reason when reacting.

I haven't seen Hannah ever call her fans to do/say something against anyone. I saw her use "the power of influence" to raise awareness, charity and gaining DWTS votes that lead to victory. She speaks about love, grace, respect and meaning often and I've seen her being gracious and loving/caring and respectful in challenging times. Her last live was mostly void of meaningful content and disrespectful at the peak. She went against own values. But that doesn't give permission to others to do the same. And her - however short and general - apology spoke that she recognized her mistake. People who don't use reason are not Hannah's responsibility.

I'm not gonna speak on this whole Hanna situation but with the Rachel part I'll put in my 2 cents.
There could be many reasons why Hannah didn't want to go live at the time with Rachel and I don't think she was hiding from it .She was probably too upset at the time (maybe even crying ) Maybe she wants to do it herself on her own time , (which probably offended Rachel) ,Also imo there's something about Rachel that I just don't trust and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe Hannah wasen't comfortable doing that with her for fear of not knowing what Rachel would say or how Rachel would have handled it ( I don't think they are close friends) IMO Rachel is concerned for Rachel .Rachel can use her platform herself to educate on the subject .If she was a friend to Hannah IMO she wouldn't have even mentioned that she discussed going live with Hannah or be so quick to mention that Hannah backed out the last minute. I don't feel that was necessary for her to say? She could've just waited a few days, checked in on Hannah and ask her if she wanted to consider going live now after she had some time to process .We don't know all that was said on that call between them but I didn't like how Rachel handled that part of it and I'm glad Hannah didn't do it with her. JMO

I don't excuse Hannah's lack of response/further apology/statement in these days, I wish she have done it sooner rather than later, mostly because the more days pass we are losing the point of the matter and opening new issues/problems that are worsening her case, but also dividing people further.
But the matter of discussion has 2 principal points: Disrespectful and hurtful conduct of Hannah towards Black community (if I dare to generalize) to which she owns an apology and they aren't obligated to accept or forgive.
And an ignorant and careless act of an influencer/public figure that has disappointed many (of all races, color, ages, cultures) for not leading with values she "preaches" to hold that demands a responsible stand on the issue, so that people that follow her can decide whether to support and follow her further. Noone is obligated to give her anymore attention, yet people still do. Some for pure curiosity, some for pleasure to criticize her further, some for giving her the benefit of the doubt, some for sympathy, some for pure obsession.

As I wrote previously, Hannah went against her own values. That is huge. That means losing own integrity. Dishonoring your own principles is losing yourself. That is not a nice mirror to face. That is bigger than just hurting someone else's feelings, IMO, for anyone who actually has conscience and a moral compass. Because it means the compass is broken. It takes time to restore.

@Jolena
I agree with you, to a point. I don’t question Rachel’s motives or sincerity. I think she thought she could help Hannah but, I agree it was best that she didn’t try. 
Hannah managed to get herself into an untenable situation. Her effort to fix it made it worse. Comments from Rachel, Nick, Tyler and others have not helped because they mostly sound like efforts to distance themselves from Hannah’s egregious mistake and I don’t blame them one bit. Hannah herself tried to distance herself by blaming her brother. 

This situation should have been handled from the outset by a professional public relations/crisis management team. It takes a special set of skills to quickly develop a strategy to repair and correct the damage to her image.

It turns out, her insta followers are mostly supportive and similar as there was minimal if any defection. However, they don’t seem to represent the cross-section of cultural and intellectual diversity of thought we generally have seen with other leads.  Or, the difference could simply be the times we’re in and the national struggle we’re currently experiencing. 

My point is, she needs professional help with this. Perhaps she fired her management company to get it. I hope so. All IMO.

@Chgohighlife IMHO, just my perception of her personality ... that actually Hannah is stubbornly dealing with this on her own, not listening to some PR team at all and the more people are urging her to make a statement, the less genuine it seems to her and she wants to make it on her own terms.

alwayscooking wrote:I personally find that word unacceptable, always have always will.  But, IMO, because someone is singing along to a song, and repeats what the lyrics are, doesn't make them a racist.   I've never really understood why this word is used in music today if people find it so offensive?  I woke up today to some of the fan accounts on IG blasting Hannah.  Many were saying she's not allowed to say it because she's white.  This makes absolutely no sense to me, if it's offensive for her to say while singing along to a song, then it should be the same for everyone.  

My opinion may not be a popular one on here, but, IMO, saying a couple stupid things in your life does not make you a racist.  I think that word is thrown around way to easily today, one wrong word and your labelled.  I'm sure that all the people that are trashing her right now have never, never, ever, said anything in their life that someone else found derogatory. 

I agree with you. If the word is unacceptable (and I believe it is,) then it needs to die. There are plenty of racial and cultural slurs that I remember from my childhood that you don't hear anymore because literally no one uses them. I doubt that many younger people would even recognize them. These were words for Italians, Hispanics, Irish, various Asian groups, etc. There was a mildly derogatory word that was used for my mom's ethnic group. As a child, I was surprised to hear her saying it. She said, "It's okay if *we* use it, but others can't." Even as a child, I didn't see the logic in that.

*Let the word die.* It's time.

Now Hannah could definitely have been a whole lot smarter than this. When I first heard about what happened, I figured that she was probably trying to be the cool girl, rapping along to a song without a whole lot of thought.  Her apology could have been better, i.e. "I'm so sorry that my actions were hurtful. I was singing along without thinking. I'll do better in the future. Please accept my apologies."

It was boneheaded, sure. And it definitely deserved a better apology. But I don't see this as being indicative of some sort of deep character flaw.

Amethyst wrote:

alwayscooking wrote:I personally find that word unacceptable, always have always will.  But, IMO, because someone is singing along to a song, and repeats what the lyrics are, doesn't make them a racist.   I've never really understood why this word is used in music today if people find it so offensive?  I woke up today to some of the fan accounts on IG blasting Hannah.  Many were saying she's not allowed to say it because she's white.  This makes absolutely no sense to me, if it's offensive for her to say while singing along to a song, then it should be the same for everyone.  

My opinion may not be a popular one on here, but, IMO, saying a couple stupid things in your life does not make you a racist.  I think that word is thrown around way to easily today, one wrong word and your labelled.  I'm sure that all the people that are trashing her right now have never, never, ever, said anything in their life that someone else found derogatory. 

I agree with you. If the word is unacceptable (and I believe it is,) then it needs to die. There are plenty of racial and cultural slurs that I remember from my childhood that you don't hear anymore because literally no one uses them. I doubt that many younger people would even recognize them. These were words for Italians, Hispanics, Irish, various Asian groups, etc. There was a mildly derogatory word that was used for my mom's ethnic group. As a child, I was surprised to hear her saying it. She said, "It's okay if *we* use it, but others can't." Even as a child, I didn't see the logic in that.

*Let the word die.* It's time.

Now Hannah could definitely have been a whole lot smarter than this. When I first heard about what happened, I figured that she was probably trying to be the cool girl, rapping along to a song without a whole lot of thought.  Her apology could have been better, i.e. "I'm so sorry that my actions were hurtful. I was singing along without thinking. I'll do better in the future. Please accept my apologies."

It was boneheaded, sure. And it definitely deserved a better apology. But I don't see this as being indicative of some sort of deep character flaw.

Actually Hannah does have a major character flaw. She’s pitifully afraid. I have never seen evidence to the contrary. It’s beyond stupid that she couldn’t put her face in front of the same phone she puts in her face every day, several times a day for one silly performance after the other. Her fans are always bragging about what a bada** she is but, I find her approach to any adversity cowardly, at best. I think back to when Carrie Ann on DWTS came into her rehearsal room and apologized and almost touched her and she freaked out. So, her behavior is acceptable within the context of a silly girl but not the fierce queen people are trying to pretend she is. No. Uhuh.  That notion is hilariously absurd. All IMO.

Realitysteve talked about Hannah in his new podcast for a couple mins today. He put it very simple. No one is calling Hannah a racist, but was what she said racist? Absolutely. Steve also called her out for no follow up apology. Steve called her and said that you can barely even call her "apology" an apology. Completely agree with him. Her PR team putting 2 sentences out isn't an apology. He said there's no excuse for her not to put out a new apology considering it's been 4 days since her IG story one. For those saying that Hannah isn't responsible for her fans actions and what they send to others... well all I have to say to you is that you're part of the problem. Steve said every since Hannah has been on Colton's season her rabid fans have been kissing her azz and defended her every move. Even to this day we have Tannah shippers..

Also, seeing people in here defending Hannah over Rachel and somehow putting the blame as if it's Rachel's fault is sad but not surprising at all. Just proving the point of what Hannah's fans are like coddling her behavior. Her fans are excusing her racist behavior and sending and harassing Rachel. Also, Don't forget Rachel REACHED out to her to HELP her to educate her and told her how she should go about her apology. If you think Hannah's apology was sincere then I really don't know how to help you... once again... if you're not black... you don't get to "accept" her apology. It's not for you.

Someone on reddit predicted that Hannah will post a pic and caption it with "I've learned my lesson, I won't do it again, let's all support each other, etc etc. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she did this since it's clear she's too selfish and childish to admit her wrongdoings.
I think the fact that someone like Becca K, who is very quiet and always stays out of controversial things like this spoke out is very telling. Hannah doesn't have many close friends in BN and I'm really starting to see why and maybe the diva rumors are true.

Many of us will agree to disagree on Hannah so I'm done discussing this on my part. Her fans sending hate to other contestants will continue to support her, but many fans have seen a new side to her and won't. What Hannah did was unacceptable but not unforgivable, but how she has decided to handle the situation is even worse.

This is all JMO and not any attack on any user in here. Hannah is an adult who has been coddled her whole life and should be held responsible. Casual racism is very very prevalent even in 2020 and is not a joke. Just the fact that people are making excuses for Hannah is very sad to me, but most likely coming from people who haven't suffered a day in their life due to racism.

I'm not black but a POC, however I have learned a lot from this incident and I think everyone should too.

wishesfireworks wrote:Realitysteve talked about Hannah in his new podcast for a couple mins today. He put it very simple. No one is calling Hannah a racist, but was what she said racist? Absolutely. Steve also called her out for no follow up apology. Steve called her and said that you can barely even call her "apology" an apology. Completely agree with him. Her PR team putting 2 sentences out isn't an apology. He said there's no excuse for her not to put out a new apology considering it's been 4 days since her IG story one. For those saying that Hannah isn't responsible for her fans actions and what they send to others... well all I have to say to you is that you're part of the problem. Steve said every since Hannah has been on Colton's season her rabid fans have been kissing her azz and defended her every move. Even to this day we have Tannah shippers..

Also, seeing people in here defending Hannah over Rachel and somehow putting the blame as if it's Rachel's fault is sad but not surprising at all. Just proving the point of what Hannah's fans are like coddling her behavior. Her fans are excusing her racist behavior and sending and harassing Rachel. Also, Don't forget Rachel REACHED out to her to HELP her to educate her and told her how she should go about her apology. If you think Hannah's apology was sincere then I really don't know how to help you... once again... if you're not black... you don't get to "accept" her apology. It's not for you.

Someone on reddit predicted that Hannah will post a pic and caption it with "I've learned my lesson, I won't do it again, let's all support each other, etc etc. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she did this since it's clear she's too selfish and childish to admit her wrongdoings.
I think the fact that someone like Becca K, who is very quiet and always stays out of controversial things like this spoke out is very telling. Hannah doesn't have many close friends in BN and I'm really starting to see why and maybe the diva rumors are true.

Many of us will agree to disagree on Hannah so I'm done discussing this on my part. Her fans sending hate to other contestants will continue to support her, but many fans have seen a new side to her and won't. What Hannah did was unacceptable but not unforgivable, but how she has decided to handle the situation is even worse.

This is all JMO and not any attack on any user in here. Hannah is an adult who has been coddled her whole life and should be held responsible. Casual racism is very very prevalent even in 2020 and is not a joke. Just the fact that people are making excuses for Hannah is very sad to me, but most likely coming from people who haven't suffered a day in their life due to racism.

I'm not black but a POC, however I have learned a lot from this incident and I think everyone should too.

I always like your post and how you directly get to the point. Thank You and I agree with you !