Bachelor In Paradise Australia - Season 3 - Episodes - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Dirty Street Pie wrote:So, I’ve just finished watching the ep, and I’m glad to see Abbie go, if only so I don’t have to see people on SM carrying on about what a fEmINiSt she is, and if you don’t support her, you hate women.
I actually really don’t know how she played it so badly, she’s a gorgeous girl, but her over confidence and arrogance in putting all of her stock in Ciarran, and only paying attention to others when it was clear he was giving his rose to Jess was her undoing.
Moving forward, it will be interesting to see things unfold with Glenn/Helena when Alisha comes in and I can’t say I’m excited for all the Renee drama next week.
I am loving Timm as a narrator and a sh*tstirrer, he and Britt together I’m not sure, they seem an odd couple, but maybe if they came home around the same time they left early together like Luke and Lisa?
And surely more boys must come in soon? I just saw an ad with Keira on it, surely boys won’t have the power again next rose ceremony?

I just wrote one long post before, so this is the last long post I will write to complement the other but must address Abbie

I am so glad to see Abbie gone! I know some of you think she is gorgeous, but it comes to taste, for instance,  my husband and other male friends don't find Abbie very attractive, but they think there is something weird and don't like her body.   They prefer Helena or Cassandra, but my husband and friends have very classic taste. I know what they think is irrelevant but I guess somehow this may explain why most of the male contestants were not interested in Abbie.  IMO Abbie thought that she would be more popular with the guys than she is, but besides Jamie, the rest of the guys seemed to care much for her. People tend to have a type. Timm was very honest he said several times that Abbie was not Ciarran type. In fact, it looks like the guys found Cassandra more attractive than Abbie (which many men would do, Cass has very harmonious features), which must be hard for Abbie to have watched today on TV because on episode 1 she said that Ciarran deserved someone 'hot', and that Cass was not hor enough for Ciarran, well, the guys seem to think Cass is better looking than Abbie (and so do I), see Abbie? Timm also thought of Cass as super hot (see episode 1).

Another example: today, Jake looked bored talking to Abbie. I sensed that Abbie was not Jake's type either. He truly fell in love with Georgia and she and Jake remain friends (see Georgia's comment on Jake's instagram after he was announced as cast of BIP).  Georgia has a slimmer and classier style than Abbie (who completely lacks class). Also think of Megan, physically talking she and Abbie could not be more different! Megan  is very slim, and tan and she may not be very bright but Megan enjoys reading and can be witty. In fact last night Jake said he would kiss Abbie but marry Helena (again, a slim, stylish, smart girl). Some guys may want to just kiss and have fun with certain type of girl (in this case, Abbie), and be serious with another type, they are attracted to a particular physique but may give people with a different physique 'a go'. This is IMO

IMO Ciarran may prefer brunettes or women with dark eyes or of Southern European looks, hence he likes Cassandra Renee, and now Jess. Let's see how things evolve.

I finished watching. That was quite entertaining.

Timm and Britt are one of those odd couples that I find interesting, and they have already expressed what they like about each other, apart from the physical attraction.
On some level they remind me of Dean and Caelynn, especially if they leave early and stay together afterwards. Perhaps that’s just what TPTB want us to think – I assume that BIP US has been shown on Australian TV.

I don’t think Jamie is creepy. He means well, but he is socially inept and completely clueless in most areas.
Maybe he IS an alien. After all he didn’t even know how to drink from a water bottle.

JMO

@Genevieve Australia SO GOOD to see you Back HERE!
I naturally have to agree with much of your posts. ( not too long for me, just going in details and depth IMO) .

Regarding Abbie and her choices of men and her ‘attractive quotient’ from a man’s perspective, here is another element to consider . I know men are wired differently and in a large part they look for and want to ‘ conquer, pursue and be the one in charge of the seducing ‘ in the relationship game. Sorry if you think it’s different nowadays, I think biology has not really evolved THAT much and it’s still a strong factor. ( Along with the other physical traits above mentioned)

So, I see this ‘type’ definition with more than just physical traits. A very secure and assertive man will enjoy being in charge of the seducing and will appreciate the very ‘ feminine ‘ qualities of a woman, which let him lead. It doesn’t mean being submissive, although it can go to that extent, but it’s in the energy and body language signals that are sent and received by both. Look at the way Cassandra was in comparison to Abbie. She has absolutely taken the role of the pursuer and pretty much overpowered Ciarran immediately with her expectations and sexy moves. She is not letting him even try to seduce her, she’s already all in before he makes a move. That’s a big turn off for many men. He is on the other hand attracted by Cassandra, and as he starts showing her attention, she is giggling, letting herself be slowly courted by him as she keeps her distance and a certain air of mystery about the way it affects her. With Abbie, it’s a done deal. As we know, he KNOWS he can sleep with her if he wants and that’s it. The game ‘friend, kiss, marry” was extremely revelatory! He is only interested in kissing Abbie. And even Abbie is crushed to hear that.
Same with Timm and Britt, she is not showing too much assertive energy and she lets Timm lead her in the seduction dance. I see plenty of coy gestures from the women who are genuinely interested in the men. MARY is another pretty assertive ( you said crass and not classy and I agree) girl and she is only going to be successful in finding someone when she backtracks enough to have a guy take the lead, not the opposite. Unless the balance of the relationship requires the ‘ Yang ‘ energy to be stronger in the woman than the man as it is always a balancing act IMO. We all - women and men- have different levels or quotas of Yin and Yang and it’s plays a large role in the selection of partners IMO.
Helena for example is pretty ‘ feminine’ and has also a strong intellectual side to her that will match someone who can appreciate that.
In conclusion, the so called ‘ feminists ‘ qualities that Abbie is clamoring and manifesting are twisted to fit the wrong narrative and are often seen by men like an attack on their masculine identity. True feminism is not about women starting to act LIKE MEN but rather own their OWN power in the divine feminine which is there to balance the true male power. It’s a tricky and ongoing process.

JMOAA

Genevieve Australia wrote:Hey guys, first, apologies for the long post, but I just want to summarise all my views since I haven't really been sleuthing but I have been following your posts. @Bobette I hope you watch both episodes soon, because it may give you some insight. You are a great sleuth so you may be able to pick additional hints @astrobach I hope you are around too.

Now, a brief summary of what I have inferred after watching last night and tonight's episode, both episodes confirmed a speculation that I and someone else made a few weeks ago, that Mary is not Glenn's type. I never saw them together, in fact, I cannot believe Mary was almost chasing Glenn and she said it herself that Helena and her are completely different people (IMO Helena is classy and in my opinion Mary is crass, but clearly I am biased because I look more like Helena and behave like her in many ways), so if Glenn liked Helena then, Mary said he would not like her. As we saw, this was confirmed by Glenn. Helena and Glenn seem very close now. In view of that I do not believe for a second that Glenn and Alisha will end up together. Alisha may have had a bit of a 'redemption' last season but she is not what I consider 'normal', she is not attractive either, she is super plain, and my husband for example, finds her unattractive (poor thing I sometimes ask him to watch some episodes with me), Alisha can also be rather brusque and IMO she lacks class, so I just don't see how can Glenn go from Helena to Alisha. I don't know much about Renee but I heard from someone saying that Renee  is an altruistic person,  and is engaged in noble causes, plus she is pretty, so I  think that Glenn may end up with Renee.

Now, one observation: in one scene Brit and Timm are telling someone (I forgot whom) that he just changed his Facebook status to 'in a relationship' (meaning with Brittany), but then Britt told him to change it to 'its complicated' instead, so they were trying to play with  people. These means that these guys could have been uploading stories and photos even when we were there to appear they were out!

By the way, I think Cassandra has a ring that looks very similar to one of those that appeared during the ads. She has a video on her instagram saying which one she would pick for engagement and which one as a wedding band, and isn't there a preview that shows a girl giving a ring to a guy?


I hope you are all well! By the way @bobette I am happy to be wrong: you were right about Angie and Carlin! Such is life!

ALL is IMO Sorry for the long rant! I promise I won't do it again :D It is 02.22am here so I won't correct my syntax or typos! Apologies again!

Can't say I agree with the points on Helena vs Alisha. IMO it is the total opposite. Alisha is way more classy, with a respectable rewarding career in government. Glenn seems very sensible so it would make sense for them to be together as they both have real lives and careers outside the show. Helena on the other hand is quite cheap - she is probably intelligent somewhere under there but all she did after the Bachelor was start the world's tackiest social media business on losing weight. It and she turned out to be very tone deaf and as a result she had to stop the business and lost a lot of fans. She also comes off as incredibly high maintenance and way too much work for a normal guy like Glenn. I can't see anything that is classy about her.

Astrobach wrote:@Genevieve Australia SO GOOD  to see you Back HERE!
I naturally have to agree with much of your posts. ( not too long for me, just going in details and depth IMO) .

Regarding Abbie and her choices of men and her ‘attractive quotient’ from a man’s perspective, here is another element to consider . I know men are wired differently and in a large part they look for and want to ‘ conquer, pursue and be the one in charge of the seducing ‘ in the relationship game. Sorry if you think it’s different nowadays, I think biology has not really evolved THAT much and it’s still a strong factor. ( Along with the other physical traits above mentioned)

So, I see this ‘type’ definition with more than just physical traits. A very secure and assertive man will enjoy being in charge of the seducing and will appreciate the very ‘ feminine ‘ qualities of a woman, which let him lead. It doesn’t mean being submissive, although it can go to that extent, but it’s in the energy and body language signals that are sent and received by both. Look at the way Cassandra was in comparison to Abbie. She has absolutely taken the role of the pursuer and pretty much overpowered Ciarran immediately with her expectations and sexy moves. She is not letting him even try to seduce her, she’s already all in before he makes a move. That’s a big turn off for many men. He is on the other hand attracted by Cassandra, and as he starts showing her attention, she is giggling, letting herself be slowly courted by him as she keeps her distance and a certain  air of mystery about the way it affects her. With Abbie, it’s a done deal. As we know, he KNOWS he can sleep with her if he wants and that’s it. The game ‘friend, kiss, marry” was extremely revelatory! He is only interested in kissing Abbie. And even Abbie is crushed to hear that.
Same with Timm and Britt, she is not showing too much assertive energy and she lets Timm lead her in the seduction dance. I see plenty of coy gestures from the women who are genuinely interested in the men. MARY is another pretty assertive ( you said crass and not classy and I agree) girl and she is only going to be successful in finding someone when she backtracks enough to have a guy take the lead, not the opposite. Unless the balance of the relationship requires the ‘ Yang ‘ energy to be stronger in the woman than the man as it is always a balancing act IMO. We all - women and men- have different levels or quotas of Yin and Yang and it’s plays a large role in the selection of partners IMO.
Helena for example is pretty ‘ feminine’ and has also a strong intellectual side to her that will match someone who can appreciate that.
In conclusion, the so called ‘ feminists ‘ qualities that Abbie is clamoring and manifesting are twisted to fit the wrong narrative and are often seen by men like an attack on their masculine identity. True feminism is not about women starting to act LIKE MEN but rather own their OWN power in the divine feminine which is there to balance the true male power. It’s a tricky and ongoing process.  

JMOAA

Astrobach I love your posts and I get sick of the whole Abbie fEmInIsM thing and found her unbearable in this show but sorry this post made me completely back her and understand why so many people do. This is quite sexist and honestly any man who thinks he should be in charge of the seducing is a huge red flag. Women do not have to be some submissive cutesy 'feminine' beings waiting for a big strong man to seduce them. Gender identity has come soon much further than that. I aohld rather no man at all ever than one who wanted to 'conquer and pursue.' It reminds me of my ex who always had an issue with dating a woman earning 3x his salary...this attitude is quite a big red flag. IMO.

@Vjeff You know I totally anticipated that my post would get misinterpreted and taken out of context. I have actually specifically mentioned the submissiveness as an extreme that is NOT the proper balance. I guess my comment is more at an evolved and spiritual level than a superficial one. Of course it’s not about the ‘ macho’ type of guy who thinks he owns women or wants power OVER them. Im referring to instincts and biology facts that are played out in subconscious ways and the man’s psychology is very often confused and threatened by overly agressive women. If you watch the body language I referred to, it’s very visible. I’m not talking about any ‘ better than you’ male dominating traits, true masculinity is not about that but it’s rare to see it in our confused society as much as we see too many women who are giving up THEIR OWN POWER and wisdom in order to be accepted and validated in a man dominated world. These play out in subtle instinctual ways and have nothing to do with the examples you give, which are extreme cases of imbalances.

Not sure I made my point more clear but the bottom line is that there is a balance we seek when looking for a partner that fits in with our beliefs and subconscious conditioning. The ideal is a man who manifest his better masculine traits and a woman who exudes her best feminine attributes as they both learn and accept from one another. In reality, that is not a very frequent scenario IMO.

blueblues wrote:I finished watching. That was quite entertaining.

Timm and Britt are one of those odd couples that I find interesting, and they have already expressed what they like about each other, apart from the physical attraction.
On some level they remind me of Dean and Caelynn, especially if they leave early and stay together afterwards. Perhaps that’s just what TPTB want us to think – I assume that BIP US has been shown on Australian TV.

I don’t think Jamie is creepy. He means well, but he is socially inept and completely clueless in most areas.
Maybe he IS an alien. After all he didn’t even know how to drink from a water bottle.

JMO

re: bold, nope. The US franchise isn't shown in Australia. Sometimes whole seasons show up as catch-up TV well after it's aired in the US and then quietly disappears. Becca's season was the last one to be shown ep-by-ep. But I'm sure tptb know that super fans watch through Bachelor Archive.

Astrobach wrote:@Genevieve Australia SO GOOD  to see you Back HERE!
I naturally have to agree with much of your posts. ( not too long for me, just going in details and depth IMO) .

Regarding Abbie and her choices of men and her ‘attractive quotient’ from a man’s perspective, here is another element to consider . I know men are wired differently and in a large part they look for and want to ‘ conquer, pursue and be the one in charge of the seducing ‘ in the relationship game. Sorry if you think it’s different nowadays, I think biology has not really evolved THAT much and it’s still a strong factor. ( Along with the other physical traits above mentioned)......................

..........So, I see this ‘type’ definition with more than just physical traits. A
In conclusion, the so called ‘ feminists ‘ qualities that Abbie is clamoring and manifesting are twisted to fit the wrong narrative and are often seen by men like an attack on their masculine identity. True feminism is not about women starting to act LIKE MEN but rather own their OWN power in the divine feminine which is there to balance the true male power. It’s a tricky and ongoing process.  

JMOAA

Hey @Astrobach, so good to hear from you! I have removed the middle size of your text to make it not to look to long! I agree, there is the chasing aspect of it too, but Timm seems to have known already that Abbey was not Ciarran's type and I do know that many people do have a type (I think I definitely have a type, but when I was single I kept my choices open but my husband is definitely). I think it is both, but when a person's is not someone's 'type', then there has to be more...and someone who is not your type may find you different because are attracted to other aspects of your personality. In Abbeys case I think this is what happens: none of the guys of the island (beside Ciarran), had mentioned they were interested in her, except Jamie. Same with Mary, she bitches about other girls and guys and she doesn't understand why she is not 'lucky'. I feel like telling her that first, she is not very attractive (at least not IMO) and secondly, I don't know anyone who would find her personality particularly attractive either, that what she thinks is funny is actually rather immature and vulgar, but guys won't tell her dad, especially not on TV. IMO lots of these girls and guys lack self-awareness.

Who am I liking thus far? Girls: Helena is my favourite, I love her! I am amused by Cassandra, I have noticed that the editors did a poor job cutting some of her sentences which were probably used in a different context! It was quite obvious. I am having fun seeing other aspects of Cassandra's personality. I don't care for Britt (Brittany)but I don't dislike her either, and Britney has grown on me, but I think she has issues she must address. I sort of like her with Jamie!

Guys: I never liked Ciarran and that remains the same. I was not a big fan of Timm but I like him now, Timm is fun to watch, this is his environment, his commentary is hilarious and he comes across as a genuine guy, without an agenda. I really like Glenn too, he is such a darling! Oh, I have always liked Jake, because I have spoken a few times with him and because I know people who know him very well. IMO the producers brought Jake back to provide this season with some balance. Jake is the most popular single guy among male and female in the Bachelor Australia world, and he seems to be very close to the US contestants as well (Jared for instance, since to be close to Jake, he always comments on Jake's posts). Oh, Georgia Love (his bachelorette) still post on Jake's instagram because is still friends with her and Le. He is also super close to Matty J, and well, all the actual contestants go and post on his Instagram regularly. It is almost like Jake's Instagram is the 'fun spot for the bachelor world on Instagram', he responds to almost all comments and also knows his followers well; so I guess he just has a very easy to be with, charismatic, and has a kind heart, so the producers need someone like JAke in the island, and due to his experience producers probably trust JAke, he may be a bit of an 'insider' now and put some order. Plus he is a guy who most contestants find good looking, so it works for me now that he is not with Megan there, I would not have liked Jake if there was going to be another Florence or Megan story.

Astrobach wrote:@Vjeff You know I totally anticipated that my post would get misinterpreted  and taken out of context. I have actually specifically mentioned the submissiveness as an extreme that is NOT the proper balance. I guess my comment is more at an evolved and spiritual level than a superficial one. Of course it’s not about the ‘ macho’ type of guy who thinks he owns women or wants  power OVER them. Im referring to instincts and biology facts that are played out in subconscious ways and the man’s psychology is very often confused and threatened by overly agressive women. If you watch the body language I referred to, it’s very visible. I’m not talking about any ‘ better than you’ male dominating traits, true masculinity is not about that but it’s rare to see it in our confused society as much as we see too many women who are giving up THEIR OWN POWER and wisdom in order to be accepted and validated in a man dominated world.  These play out in subtle instinctual ways and have nothing to do with the examples you give, which are extreme cases of imbalances.

Not sure I made my point more clear but the bottom line is that there is a balance we seek when looking for a partner that fits in with our beliefs and subconscious conditioning. The ideal is a man who manifest his better masculine traits and a woman who exudes her best feminine attributes as they both learn and accept from one another. In reality, that is not a very frequent scenario IMO.

Totally understand and definitely much more clear!

And yeah I personally Abbie was definitely super aggressive with Ciarran and I am not really buying the whole media sl*t-shaming narrative as when they were on the bed he seemed to be as far away as possible. And actually even if a male had acted as she did I would have found it over the top. In my household we were thinking the creepy music over Jamie's lines was a bit over the top as he really wasn't being that creepy or clingy at all...it was more so Abbie who was the clinger in this season.

Vjeff wrote:

Can't say I agree with the points on Helena vs Alisha. IMO it is the total opposite.  Alisha is way more classy, with a respectable rewarding career in government. Glenn seems very sensible so it would make sense for them to be together as they both have real lives and careers outside the show. Helena on the other hand is quite cheap - she is probably intelligent somewhere under there but all she did after the Bachelor was start the world's tackiest social media business on losing weight. It and she turned out to be very tone deaf and as a result she had to stop the business and lost a lot of fans. She also comes off as incredibly high maintenance and way too much work for a normal guy like Glenn. I can't see anything that is classy about her.

That is fair enough, we don't need to agree @vjeff. I don't think Alisha is classy. I found her rather obnoxious in her season. The producers made her look 'cleaner' during BIP, but she was part of Rommy and Kat's circle'. Yes, they probably edited some things but they couldn't edit everything. Who did Alisha end up with last year? Jules, I wouldn't call him attractive or classy either. She is involved in some good causes, yes, and so do many people who would never consider 'classy'.

I don't find Helena cheap. I understand your point though she is not 'classy' in the normal world...because, let's be honest, how many classy people would go to a show like this one?    yer, I find Helena smarter than the other ones. Helena was born in Mauritius but is of European descent and so am I, so perhaps that is why I like her, we all have bias, don't we? I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to starting the social media business about losing weight, but if she does she is not different from all the other contestants who advertise themselves. I don't find any enjoyment looking at any of these people's instagrams. They are bores! These people are on TV for a reason: they need attention,  so I am not going to pretend that there is one of them that is not there for fame, and this includes Alisha. Anyway, I won't continue discussing Helena vs Alisha, this is all IMO and your have yours, and it is all good

Genevieve Australia wrote:

Vjeff wrote:

Can't say I agree with the points on Helena vs Alisha. IMO it is the total opposite.  Alisha is way more classy, with a respectable rewarding career in government. Glenn seems very sensible so it would make sense for them to be together as they both have real lives and careers outside the show. Helena on the other hand is quite cheap - she is probably intelligent somewhere under there but all she did after the Bachelor was start the world's tackiest social media business on losing weight. It and she turned out to be very tone deaf and as a result she had to stop the business and lost a lot of fans. She also comes off as incredibly high maintenance and way too much work for a normal guy like Glenn. I can't see anything that is classy about her.

That is fair enough, we don't need to agree @vjeff. I don't think Alisha is classy. I found her rather obnoxious in her season. The producers made her look 'cleaner' during BIP, but she was part of Rommy and Kat's circle'. Yes, they probably edited some things but they couldn't edit everything. Who did Alisha end up with last year? Jules, I wouldn't call him attractive or classy either. She is involved in some good causes, yes, and so do many people who would never consider 'classy'.

I don't find Helena cheap. I understand your point though she is not 'classy' in the normal world...because, let's be honest, how many classy people would go to a show like this one?    yer, I find Helena smarter than the other ones. Helena was born in Mauritius but is of European descent and so am I, so perhaps that is why I like her, we all have bias, don't we? I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to starting the social media business about losing weight, but if she does she is not different from all the other contestants who advertise themselves. I don't find any enjoyment looking at any of these people's instagrams. They are bores! These people are on TV for a reason: they need attention,  so I am not going to pretend that there is one of them that is not there for fame, and this includes Alisha. Anyway, I won't continue discussing Helena vs Alisha, this is all IMO and your have yours, and it is all good

Haha this is very true about the Instagrams, I understand your view and it is good that we all have different opinions. Helena actually is quite smart and had amazing high school grades - which is why I think she could do a bit better with her life and why I respect Alisha for sticking to her career etc. This was the business FYI - https://www.mamamia.com.au/helena-sauzier-weight-loss-instagram/ . Anyway I am glad the show is back so we can all sit here discussing the characters again, I was getting very bored with Masterchef.

Vjeff wrote:

Astrobach wrote:@Vjeff You know I totally anticipated that my post would get misinterpreted  and taken out of context. I have actually specifically mentioned the submissiveness as an extreme that is NOT the proper balance. I guess my comment is more at an evolved and spiritual level than a superficial one. Of course it’s not about the ‘ macho’ type of guy who thinks he owns women or wants  power OVER them. Im referring to instincts and biology facts that are played out in subconscious ways and the man’s psychology is very often confused and threatened by overly agressive women. If you watch the body language I referred to, it’s very visible. I’m not talking about any ‘ better than you’ male dominating traits, true masculinity is not about that but it’s rare to see it in our confused society as much as we see too many women who are giving up THEIR OWN POWER and wisdom in order to be accepted and validated in a man dominated world.  These play out in subtle instinctual ways and have nothing to do with the examples you give, which are extreme cases of imbalances.

Not sure I made my point more clear but the bottom line is that there is a balance we seek when looking for a partner that fits in with our beliefs and subconscious conditioning. The ideal is a man who manifest his better masculine traits and a woman who exudes her best feminine attributes as they both learn and accept from one another. In reality, that is not a very frequent scenario IMO.

Totally understand and definitely much more clear!

And yeah I personally Abbie was definitely super aggressive with Ciarran and I am not really buying the whole media sl*t-shaming narrative as when they were on the bed he seemed to be as far away as possible. And actually even if a male had acted as she did I would have found it over the top. In my household we were thinking the creepy music over Jamie's lines was a bit over the top as he really wasn't being that creepy or clingy at all...it was more so Abbie who was the clinger in this season.

BBM - this is one reason why I don't buy into the "Abbie is sl*t-shamed" stuff - swap the genders around and then if she was a man, Abbie's laser focus is treated as creepy and clingy (and it is) but when it's a woman we're meant to find it empowering and criticising it is "sl*t-shaming". Jamie was a fraction as obsessed with Abbie as Abbie was with Ciarran but it's a free for all on letting Jamie know he's a creep.

I don't like that double standard. If women are strong, independent adults then we should be as accountable for our words and actions as men are and consent matters just as much going the other way.