Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - July 22 - MTA - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I'm VERY late to this season, and decided to get caught up, and am finally here, for the dramatic end.

I think Luke is absolutely horrible. He is stupid, condescending, lacks self awareness, and can't take no for an answer. No excuses for him.

BUT (Yes, there's a but here): IMHO, Hannah is very immature, doesn't know what she wants, and most importantly, doesn't know who she is or wants to be. Reading Luke's IG post (and no, I don't care for his hurt ego/feelings, because Hannah clearly told him he's dumped, it's a no, and he couldn't take it), her standing up in a church meeting and declaring all this about sex, when she clearly didn't believe it, just says a lot about her. In this case she can't have it both ways. She needs to be what she believes in, not pretend to be something else, when she thinks a certain type of audience demands it. IMHO she's not ready for any kind of serious relationship, because she has no clue who she is herself. She imho has a lot of growing up to do, figuring herself out. IMHO this MTA also highlighted that. Imho.

Doats wrote:

HEA wrote:

Hotmomma wrote:@HEA true!!!! Maybe single now! But she did pick a F1.. you are correct edit edit edit!!!!

Interesting the Luke IG about Hannah saying in front of Christians that quick she would not have sex in fantasy suite. Yet she said she did it. So Hannah say one thing, does another. Add flattering edits.

Who knows... I did not like the Hannah at MTA one bit

I believe Hannah said she never said that tonight in the MTA. And if it's a he said/she said, I believe Hannah. JMO.

This all day. All season we literally saw Luke say x, then turn around and say y ten seconds later all with a "who me?" look on his face. He even finally admitted to lying about Luke S. last night. If he told me it was a sunny day, I would grab my raincoat, boots, and umbrella.

@msjr        

I'm in the middle of last night's episode.....don't think I can stomach watching the rest. What a poop show this season is! I don't care for Hannah anymore. Quite happy that Tyler and Peter aren't part of her life. This is feeling more like watching the Maury show than MTA. Not denying that Luke is a jerk and needs to grow up ....BUT .... how the guys are treating and talking to him are just as bad if not worse. IMO their vicious insults make me dislike them, not Luke.

IMO it was always Luke. She kept him for a reason and that’s because she loved him. She didn’t care that she was possibly jeopardizing any other relationship by keeping him around.
They both tried to change the other to what they wanted them to be.
IMO, any other pick was a default choice. I believe she liked the remaining three equally which is why she was so conflicted. Luke was her man until he wasn’t.

GypsySarah wrote:IMO it was always Luke. She kept him for a reason and that’s because she loved him. She didn’t care that she was possibly jeopardizing any other relationship by keeping him around.
They both tried to change the other to what they wanted them to be.
IMO, any other pick was a default choice. I believe she liked the remaining three equally which is why she was so conflicted. Luke was her man until he wasn’t.

Totally agree with you on this !
She’s been hurt by him and it was a blowout train off the track for her and she couldn’t get it back and he wasn’t able to help her see it any other way than she did !
Even on their FD she kept saying he was the best kisser etc
He made her feel love and that kept drawing her more in !

IMO Luke couldn’t or was not able to see the reality tv show in this sad story of love !
He expected her to act in a way we all would want our dating life to go outside of the show !
He just thought wrong about Hannah and that made him say the wrong or trigger points to her that made her feel judged !!

IMO he might of actually knew her in a way the others never did & she wanted that !

To just say I have had sex etc IMO was said to hurt Luke after how he made her feel and that was like a lovers fight where you fire back !
Hard to watch and MTA she seemed to protest too much !
If she was truly in love and happy with someone I don’t think she would have been so aggressive !

I have thought from the beginning she’d be single !
It was going to be Luke but the process of the show was just more than they could get through ‘

I wish them well and I’m sure all will come away seeing what it truly is that they want in a life partner !

HavaDrPepper wrote:The one thing that caught my attention in the beginning of the episode was Chris' little chats with the 3 guys.

Peter: said he was in love with Hannah
Tyler: said he was in love with Hannah
Jed: said NOTHING ABOUT BEING IN LOVE WITH HANNAH

If someone has access to the show, could these 3 conversations be transcribed.   Pretty please.

I know this has been transcribed but found this little tidbit interesting - it came from a Reddit poster who claims to have been at the MTA taping (and from the overall detail I believe she was). She said that when Jed came out to greet CH for the RC, we heard the audience clapping for him; that never happened - the clapping was edited in for the broadcast because at the time, no one clapped.

ETA: The Reddit poster claims she was at the taping and then watched the edited episode that we all saw last night and this post was sort of a "last" Q&A before she planned to delete it (to stay out of trouble with the show). One question was about the audience reaction to Peter and Tyler's entrance to the RC (her comments about Jed's are above). She said that she didn't remember what the audience reaction to Peter had been but when Tyler came out they did cheer for Tyler.

GypsySarah wrote:IMO it was always Luke. She kept him for a reason and that’s because she loved him. She didn’t care that she was possibly jeopardizing any other relationship by keeping him around.
They both tried to change the other to what they wanted them to be.
IMO, any other pick was a default choice. I believe she liked the remaining three equally which is why she was so conflicted. Luke was her man until he wasn’t.

I kinda agree ...he was going to be her F1... I just don't think she loved him ...or anyone. I see her as a total horndog at this point in her life. She wanted her cake and to eat it too. She wanted Luke AND to sleep with the other guys too. Thankfully Tyler had the sense to not go that far! I find her more "holier than thou" than Luke. Hes at least trying to practice what he preaches. She on the other hand is playing the Jesus still loves me card .... trying to justify her actions in the FS ... but no where in the bible does it give a green light to premarital sex! Each person can do what they want ..free will and all... but trying to justify it as religiously ok is just fooling yourself IMO

Cocoasneeze wrote:I'm VERY late to this season, and decided to get caught up, and am finally here, for the dramatic end.

I think Luke is absolutely horrible. He is stupid, condescending, lacks self awareness, and can't take no for an answer. No excuses for him.

BUT (Yes, there's a but here): IMHO, Hannah is very immature, doesn't know what she wants, and most importantly, doesn't know who she is or wants to be. Reading Luke's IG post (and no, I don't care for his hurt ego/feelings, because Hannah clearly told him he's dumped, it's a no, and he couldn't take it), her standing up in a church meeting and declaring all this about sex, when she clearly didn't believe it, just says a lot about her. In this case she can't have it both ways. She needs to be what she believes in, not pretend to be something else, when she thinks a certain type of audience demands it. IMHO she's not ready for any kind of serious relationship, because she has no clue who she is herself. She imho has a lot of growing up to do, figuring herself out. IMHO this MTA also highlighted that. Imho.

@Cocoasneeze
Excellent insights and I totally agree. Hannah is a very young and inexperienced 24. At the rate she learns to reassess, let go, move on, analyze, understand, evaluate - all the critical adult life skills - it will be years before she’s ready for marriage. IMO it is risky for any man to go all in with her until she learns who she is and what she wants. IMO, she’s not even close.

northernviewer wrote:

GypsySarah wrote:IMO it was always Luke. She kept him for a reason and that’s because she loved him. She didn’t care that she was possibly jeopardizing any other relationship by keeping him around.
They both tried to change the other to what they wanted them to be.
IMO, any other pick was a default choice. I believe she liked the remaining three equally which is why she was so conflicted. Luke was her man until he wasn’t.

I kinda agree ...he was going to be her F1... I just don't think she loved him ...or anyone.  I see her as a total horndog at this point in her life.   She wanted her cake and to eat it too.  She wanted Luke AND to sleep with the other guys too.  Thankfully Tyler had the sense to not go that far!  I find her more "holier than thou" than Luke.   Hes at least trying to practice what he preaches.   She on the other hand is playing the Jesus still loves me card .... trying to justify her actions in the FS ... but no where in the bible does it give a green light to premarital sex!  Each person can do what they want ..free will and all... but trying to justify it as religiously ok is just fooling yourself IMO

@northernviewer
@GypsySarah

Two things that were said last night made me wonder if Luke had been Hannah's number one choice going into Fantasy Suites -- Tyler's comment as Luke entered the rose ceremony, "Here comes her favorite," and Hannah's comment to Chris H. that her choices for a rose afterward "literally changed in a day."

Knowing that Luke had taken up a good chunk of filming time at MTA, I wondered if last night would be a pile-on. But never really felt that way to me. Instead, it felt like some measure of justice was finally served. The audience reactions alone were priceless. I felt that Chris H.'s questions to Luke when he was in the hot seat were very mild-mannered. IMO this was very smart of Chris, because Luke can do a great job of digging his own grave, he doesn't need any help with that! I might have felt more sympathy for Luke if he had shown anything beyond the very small amount of self-awareness that he did (when he took responsibility for the Luke S. situation.) Instead, Luke's apologies rang hollow because it was clear that he had almost no idea of what he had done wrong. Even when he used the words "prideful" and "arrogant," I had the feeling that he was echoing someone else's choice of words (perhaps Hannah's,) as opposed to correctly identifying mistakes that he had made.

He also had the nerve to play the "I was misunderstood" card again last night. To Luke, "I was misunderstood" translates to, "What I said didn't go over well, so it's your fault for hearing it correctly." I think this is why he took the long pauses to respond. He *knows* that he puts his foot in his mouth, and he was trying quite desperately not to do that. But he did it anyway.

One of my favorite lines from last night was when Tyler asked Luke P. (at the rose ceremony, regarding Hannah,) "Why are you telling her who she is?" To me, this sums up Luke in a nutshell. He is incapable of seeing someone outside of his own projection of that person.

I loved when Devin called Luke out. I also thought that Garrett was very well spoken last night. John Paul Jones was a hoot -- I didn't know that he was such a party animal! He should do quite well in Paradise. Mike is a good guy, and quite charming, so I was a bit puzzled that he wasn't quite so eloquent when he arrived at the hot seat, although he got better as he warmed up. As for Hannah, she has come a long way since she first met some of the men at last year's ATFR. She has really grown in confidence and is able to state her thoughts quite clearly. I liked when she turned to the camera to apologize to BN. I don't think she really needed to do that, but I appreciate the effort.