Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - July 22 - MTA - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I'm at the part right now Hannah is on stage ...Luke is still there. IMO ... shes blowing everything he said out of proportion. I don't like Luke .... but I respect how hes acting....her not so much. The whole "shaming" accusation is not what he did...not from what I saw on TV. He had every right to know if she had sex with the others ...it means something to him. It really was his business if he was going to propose to her at the end. Shes not wrong in having the right to do what she wanted in FS ...but she isn't right in thinking it was one of his business.

HavaDrPepper wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:

FLChica wrote:
Based on multiple interviews given by Luke's brother Mike, sister-in-law Hannah and a pastor at his church, meeting his wife wasn't his primary reason for going on the show. Luke felt God was giving him an opportunity to showcase his faith on national tv. His pastor also said Luke didn't know where this would lead, but he was praying for opportunities. Not a wife - opportunities.

The family admitted during the Fox interview that they followed spoiler sites, watched previous Bachelorette shows and helped Luke prepare for appearing on the show. Mike also told the Gainesville newspaper he was so busy helping Luke prepare for the show that he had neglected his own spiritual life. Luke was well-coached on what to expect and how to respond on MTA show as well - IMO.

This explains a lot!  I thought Luke had been coached for the MTA because of all the pauses he took.  He was on a mission to get his form of Christianity exposed to the world. It explains why he kept coming back over and over.  Did he fall in love?  Possibly.  Did he succeed?  No.  It is why he is so defensive about being misunderstood and needing to be right.  Everyone comes on the show for exposure and for a purpose, this was his.  He just wasn't very good at it.

There is a poster on reddit that was at the taping of the MTA and she has answered other poster's questions about the taping after the show aired last night.

A question was asked about the pauses when he was asked a question... were they actually that long.  The poster said that they were actually longer than what was showed in the edit last night.  It was their opinion that his 2+ hours of questioning should have only taken 45 minutes.

That comment from that poster alone makes me think that Luke really was coached about what to say and the guy had to think about what he was told to say.

I remember reading right after the taping that it went extra long as compared to past MTA tapings.  It was said that Luke was on the couch for over 2 hours.  If it really did go that long, I do think that production pulled him from the taping because of having to catch a flight.  If the taping had gone normal taping length, there probably wouldn't have even been a problem.  In the edit last night, they don't show production coming to get him. They just showed him walking off.  Another example of production editing things.

I don't like Luke.  I can take or leave Hannah.  Neither of them are perfect.  Hannah at least will admit that she isn't.  Luke doesn't.

IMO He was praying- especially for strength.

Sharleen's Flare recap: https://www.flare.com/bachelor/bachelorette-episode-11-recap-men-tell-all-luke-p/

Her ending the show with an apology for Luke was totally immature on her part. She wasn't accepting any fault in that ....it was just her wanting to throw more shade his way and totally unnecessary IMO maybe she's trying deflect all the shade coming her way when the FRC and ATFR airs

Bullwinkle wrote:

FLChica wrote:
Based on multiple interviews given by Luke's brother Mike, sister-in-law Hannah and a pastor at his church, meeting his wife wasn't his primary reason for going on the show. Luke felt God was giving him an opportunity to showcase his faith on national tv. His pastor also said Luke didn't know where this would lead, but he was praying for opportunities. Not a wife - opportunities.

The family admitted during the Fox interview that they followed spoiler sites, watched previous Bachelorette shows and helped Luke prepare for appearing on the show. Mike also told the Gainesville newspaper he was so busy helping Luke prepare for the show that he had neglected his own spiritual life. Luke was well-coached on what to expect and how to respond on MTA show as well - IMO.

This explains a lot!  I thought Luke had been coached for the MTA because of all the pauses he took.  He was on a mission to get his form of Christianity exposed to the world. It explains why he kept coming back over and over.  Did he fall in love?  Possibly.  Did he succeed?  No.  It is why he is so defensive about being misunderstood and needing to be right.  Everyone comes on the show for exposure and for a purpose, this was his.  He just wasn't very good at it.

I have to wonder if he or his brother really get what this show is about.  I know the sister in law applied for him.  To think his mission was gonna be anything but a lead balloon in the hands of MF & Company is very naive.  He was cast because Hannah was the lead and tptb figured they could exploit the religious angle, and that's what is was, a plot point for them.  Hannah struggled and finally saw through his gas lighting efforts.  He IMO was too self entitled, pompous and just plain self righteous to be the messenger of anything.  Now that we've been given yet another hour or so of the Luke show, I hope tptb are happy.  They and he basically ruined this season.  And yes, Hannah was a complicit in things as well.  However, I am glad she finally saw through him.  I wish her well and am hopeful she may have a second chance and I'd love it to be with Tyler.  He still appears to be very into her.  I hope Luke gains some insight and just maybe seeks some counseling.  I really don't want any further Luke show appearance. All is JMO.

FLChica wrote:

HEA wrote:

FLChica wrote:

HEA wrote:Dream on mike.... you won’t be next bach. We would have a bus of skeletons imo... wait.... prods would love it!

Is this just your opinion or do have information on skeletons in Mike's closet? TYIA.

Is it an attempt to discuss my opinion? Again?

No, it is not and I've never attempted to discuss anything with you. I was simply asking for additional information - if you had any. Thanks for replying and  have a nice evening.

Use the mute button

I actually thought that this MTA was milder than most. None of the guys were that hard on Luke, imo. Luke controlled himself but IA he probably was coached. I also heard CH say that Luke had to catch a flight. I don't agree that he was treated horribly at the MTA, in fact I thought they gave him far too much time to "clear the air". I don't believe he had any right to know what happened in the FS. If he couldn't stand not knowing whether she did or not, then he didn't love her unconditionally and also shouldn't have been on this show.

I thought Hannah did pretty well last night. I don't believe she was harsher on Luke than she should have been. I'm sure she was reminded about his actions by watching the show play out. I do believe she thought she was in love with him during filming but in reality was probably in love with the Luke that she initially "saw" and not the one who came out the last couple of episodes. Her mistake this season, imo, was falling for an idealized vision of Luke, and then moving to another idealized guy, Jed, when the first one fell through.

[quote="HavaDrPepper"][quote="Bullwinkle"]

FLChica wrote:


There is a poster on reddit that was at the taping of the MTA and she has answered other poster's questions about the taping after the show aired last night.

A question was asked about the pauses when he was asked a question... were they actually that long.  The poster said that they were actually longer than what was showed in the edit last night.  It was their opinion that his 2+ hours of questioning should have only taken 45 minutes.

That comment from that poster alone makes me think that Luke really was coached about what to say and the guy had to think about what he was told to say.

I remember reading right after the taping that it went extra long as compared to past MTA tapings.  It was said that Luke was on the couch for over 2 hours.  If it really did go that long, I do think that production pulled him from the taping because of having to catch a flight.  If the taping had gone normal taping length, there probably wouldn't have even been a problem.  In the edit last night, they don't show production coming to get him. They just showed him walking off.  Another example of production editing things.

I don't like Luke.  I can take or leave Hannah.  Neither of them are perfect.  Hannah at least will admit that she isn't.  Luke doesn't.

Regarding the bolded.
I do not blame Luke one bit for taking the time and thinking through what he would answer, say or respond.
He saw how during the season, TPTB had butchered, spliced, sliced and diced anything else he said throughout the episodes, to enhance their own narrative and agenda. He was probably trying to consider in advance of responding, how they would use his words against him, out of context, etc. and he didn’t want to make himself more vulnerable than he already was.
Don’t blame him one bit.

AND, as far as the guys ‘grilling’ him.
That was beyond brutal.
Where else in REAL LIFE, do we as humans have to put up with not one, but multiple people calling us to our face, “You are a psychopath, narcissistic, mental, insane, deranged,” and all the other insults we saw hurled at him. ???
Bullying at its finest!!
They knew he was a captive target.
The pack empowered by every word that the preceding person dolled out.
The pack further empowered by the cheering and applause of the audience.

Even on this board, we are not allowed to just post our opinions without posting IMO beside it.
There, they could label him whatever awful things they wanted to without even saying, “in my opinion” or “in my view”. They just hammered insults and accusations it as if it was FACT.

And this is of course, All IMO.

But he’s not a captive target   There have been cast that have walked out of MTN/WTN and ATFR. He could have said his piece, got up and left. That is the bottom line and a viable option.

northernviewer wrote:I'm at the part right  now Hannah is on stage ...Luke is still there.  IMO ... shes blowing everything he said out of proportion.   I don't like Luke .... but I respect how hes acting....her not so much.  The whole "shaming" accusation is not what he did...not from what I saw on TV.   He had every right to know if she had sex with the others ...it means something to him.  It really was his business if he was going to propose to her at the end.  Shes not wrong in having the right to do what she wanted in FS ...but she isn't right in thinking it was  one of his business.  

@northernviewer
This rarely happens because I love your perspective almost always but, I disagree because I think the shaming element arose from the fact that Luke asked her that question on camera. She clearly felt trapped and on the spot. She seemed not to grasp the fact that she didn’t have to answer him. She could have simply said “what happens between me and the other men is confidential and I have no intention of discussing it with you. All I will say is if I choose to have sex with any of these men, I will because I believe it is my choice and I am not committed to abstinence before marriage. If you’re not comfortable with that answer, you should go home. Can I walk you out?”

IMO, she did not have to give him that level of info. I know she was flustered and nervous and all but, she still hasn’t gotten over his dominance of her, IMO.

Kashathediva wrote:But he’s not a captive target   There have been cast that have walked out of MTN/WTN and ATFR.  He could have said his piece, got up and left. That is the bottom line and a viable option.

Technically, he was D*** if he walked off and D*** if he stayed. (probably supposed to add more *s but I don’t like to swear... just using the common saying because that’s what it was)

Look at how viewers were already manipulated to think that he walked off in a rage...
Can you imagine how they would have spun that if he actually had walked off in a rage????

Contract says he has to appear.
Which he honoured because he probably wanted to be given the full opportunity to defend himself.
To be “transparent” in his own explanation of what happened.
Regardless whether CH or the guys or viewers thought he was being transparent, he was probably thinking he was and that it could “bring clarity’ to the viewers. Alleviate the hate.
I think he honestly believed that by staying, he would be able to get people to understand him and his reasons for what he did. That he wanted to cooperate.
I have to give him credit for staying. That took guts and courage to put up with that.

The guys knew that they could say what ever they wanted and he would just sit there and take it. Correct me if I am wrong, but did they sit through his 2 hour chat with Chris Harrison? To hear his side of it?

He probably has since realized he was too naive during filming, in believing that production was for him, was encouraging him for his sake, and wanting  him to be successful.

Hindsight is 20/20.
Today, he may have wished that he 1. decided to not show up at MTA or, 2. just said his peace and left as you suggested.
To me, Luke is an eternal optimist (which is why prod could get him to keep trying and go back, time after time) and thought the situation could get better... he could make it better.
ALL IMO