Kaitlyn Bristowe - Bachelorette 11 - #5 - Discussion

He sucks imo. Wonder if he’s purposely misleading everyone and leading Kaitlyn on or what.

crunchette wrote:@Chgohighlife - You're right.  It's takes two.  So if Shawn is/was agreeing to not "suit up" at times, he must not be very worried about being trapped.  And up until recently, Kaitlyn believed Shawn was fully onboard with a life-long relationship and family.  So I guess I don't see Kait as the one who would consciously trap or mislead anyone -- that's all Shawn's doing IMO.  I just finished watching/reading a bunch of his recent interviews (like the one Alanna recently posted), and I feel as though he was misleading her and still is misleading everyone else for the sake of his career.  I hope those 6-8K new followers he has keeps him warm at night.  (And I can't believe I even typed all of this since I've been rather critical of Kaitlyn in the past.  What's happened to me?   )

@cruncette
I agree with you. What. Brand. Of stupidity would lead any woman to believe a man is showing commitment by not wearing a condom? Is that a secret sign that he wants a baby? In what universe? I found him to be a lousy choice during her season and he’s done nothing to change my opinion. A man as committed as he pretended to be, would have married her by now, IMO. She needs to stop being stuck on stupid and find a man who wants what she does out of life unless she wants to play games that cost her children the same uncertainty he’s costing her. Here’s hoping while she’s home without him, a real friend or someone in her family will help her wake up. She’s not a young girl. JMO.

I don't get the notion to call Kaitlyn the one playing games here, it trying to trap Shawn. He's the one who went on the show to pursue Kaitlyn, proposed to her, and has been in a committed relationship with her ever since. She's never made it a secret what she wants: To marry Shawn, have children with him, and live the rest of her life with him. She hasn't changed her mind or said anything different, ever. She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk. He's the one who Imo seems to be leading her on. Imo HE needs to have a friend or family member knock some sense into him, that he needs to either step up, marry Kaitlyn, or level up with her about what he really wants, not feed her half truths, or tell her stuff he thinks she wants to hear. Jmho.

Cocoasneeze wrote:I don't get the notion to call Kaitlyn the one playing games here, it trying to trap Shawn. He's the one who went on the show to pursue Kaitlyn, proposed to her, and has been in a committed relationship with her ever since. She's never made it a secret what she wants: To marry Shawn, have children with him, and live the rest of her life with him. She hasn't changed her mind or said anything different, ever. She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk. He's the one who Imo seems to be leading her on. Imo HE needs to have a friend or family member knock some sense into him, that he needs to either step up, marry Kaitlyn, or level up with her about what he really wants, not feed her half truths, or tell her stuff he thinks she wants to hear. Jmho.

@Cocoasneeze
We are in agreement for the most part. Here is the difference, IMO: 
1) I don’t care what anyone says to me if their actions do not match their words. These two people have lived together for three years. Shawn knows if he wants to marry her. What does it look like? 
2) Toying with pregnancy in her current situation is stupid and it’s been proven over and over to not be a cure for a questionable alliance. 
3) I am responsible for me. Kaitlyn is responsible for herself, her own choices. Shawn will not be pregnant. Shawn will not have anything more than financial burden. He can walk away. No one has any reason to think that he won’t. He has not kept his commitment to marry her. He has been along for a great ride on her coattails that landed him in a business and home. What more does he want from her? To stay in limbo for two more years, for five, forever? Is he ready to leave now? 
4) you can put the onus and responsibility for stepping up on Shawn but nature and real life does not. Millions of single women raising kids alone can tell her why SHE better step up. Stop waiting around for him to do it. He could stay in limbo forever, or only till her childbearing years are over or till next Thursday. Deal with reality, not hopes and dreams. She knows in her heart what she WANTS to do. If she’s toying with pregnancy, she would be better off figuring out what she needs to do. Life holds no guarantees, married or not but, Shawn is showing her his commitment to the life she wants, marriage and children. She needs to hear what he’s doing - not what he said when his super competitive, alpha male azz desperately wanted to win the competition and get the golden girl three years ago. JMO 

Don’t get me wrong, I hope she gets everything she wants and lives a happy life with the man she loves but, getting pregnant is not next on the path to get there and men do not necessarily take responsibility for you if you don’t, IMO.

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

That's quite unfair, imho. She's living in that relationship, she hears his reasonings and excuses, and they just might make sense to her each time. She doesn't have an outsiders objective view point, because she actually wants this relationship, wants to be with Shawn, and is in love with him. Perhaps until now she has been really happy with him even without marriage. It's easier said than done, that she has to measure his actions snd words and if they match up. I'm assuming, that he actually wants to be with her, they have fun together, and enjoy each others company. Months can go by easily without her feeling like her needs aren't met. Jmho.

Cocoasneeze wrote:

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

That's quite unfair, imho. She's living in that relationship, she hears his reasonings and excuses, and they just might make sense to her each time. She doesn't have an outsiders objective view point, because she actually wants this relationship, wants to be with Shawn, and is in love with him. Perhaps until now she has been really happy with him even without marriage. It's easier said than done, that she has to measure his actions snd words and if they match up. I'm assuming, that he actually wants to be with her, they have fun together, and enjoy each others company. Months can go by easily without her feeling like her needs aren't met. Jmho.

That is true up to a point, but Kaitlyn is not some naive young girl. She is an experienced woman in her 30's whose childbearing years are quickly diminishing. Frozen eggs or not. She's been around the block and she is the one throwing out hints and jabs at Shawn for a while now. So clearly she has been feeling her needs aren't being met. At some point, she has to take responsibility. She knows what she wants and apparently she feels he is not going with the plan. She needs to decide whether she is willing to accept what he is giving her or if she can't, move on. That is on her. This excuse that she can't see is bull IMO. Clearly she does since she has been passive agressive on the subject for some time now.

Sprite wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

That's quite unfair, imho. She's living in that relationship, she hears his reasonings and excuses, and they just might make sense to her each time. She doesn't have an outsiders objective view point, because she actually wants this relationship, wants to be with Shawn, and is in love with him. Perhaps until now she has been really happy with him even without marriage. It's easier said than done, that she has to measure his actions snd words and if they match up. I'm assuming, that he actually wants to be with her, they have fun together, and enjoy each others company. Months can go by easily without her feeling like her needs aren't met. Jmho.

That is true up to a point, but Kaitlyn is not some naive young girl. She is an experienced woman in her 30's whose childbearing years are quickly diminishing. Frozen eggs or not. She's been around the block and she is the one throwing out hints and jabs at Shawn for a while now. So clearly she has been feeling her needs aren't being met. At some point, she has to take responsibility. She knows what she wants and apparently she feels he is not going with the plan. She needs to decide whether she is willing to accept what he is giving her or if she can't, move on. That is on her. This excuse that she can't see is bull IMO. Clearly she does since she has been passive agressive on the subject for some time now.

@Sprite
Excellent post. I agree 100%.
I do not feel sorry for Kaitlyn one whit but, it is unfortunate that a woman with so much spirit and beauty and energy would allow herself to become a pathetic shell of the person we met three years ago. I really don't think that Kaitlyn the Bachelorette would be whining publicly instead of standing up for herself. JMO

Cocoasneeze wrote:

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

That's quite unfair, imho. She's living in that relationship, she hears his reasonings and excuses, and they just might make sense to her each time. She doesn't have an outsiders objective view point, because she actually wants this relationship, wants to be with Shawn, and is in love with him. Perhaps until now she has been really happy with him even without marriage. It's easier said than done, that she has to measure his actions snd words and if they match up. I'm assuming, that he actually wants to be with her, they have fun together, and enjoy each others company. Months can go by easily without her feeling like her needs aren't met. Jmho.

That's why I made the point that IF his actions don't match what she wants, then she needs to reevaluate the relationship and move on if need be. I didn't say she has to leave him. Just don't whine publicly and humiliate them both if she doesn't like where this is going.

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

That's quite unfair, imho. She's living in that relationship, she hears his reasonings and excuses, and they just might make sense to her each time. She doesn't have an outsiders objective view point, because she actually wants this relationship, wants to be with Shawn, and is in love with him. Perhaps until now she has been really happy with him even without marriage. It's easier said than done, that she has to measure his actions snd words and if they match up. I'm assuming, that he actually wants to be with her, they have fun together, and enjoy each others company. Months can go by easily without her feeling like her needs aren't met. Jmho.

That's why I made the point that IF his actions don't match what she wants, then she needs to reevaluate the relationship and move on if need be. I didn't say she has to leave him. Just don't whine publicly and humiliate them both if she doesn't like where this is going.

@petesiepoo If you are saying that Kaitlyn is responsible for her own happiness, I agree.
In a relationship I believe each person owns the choice to stay or go, to focus on the positive or the negative, to demand or compromise or yield, to work with or antagonize, to discover who their partner is or to try and mold them.  As far as I know, Shawn is not the one bringing relationship issues into the public arena (therefore I’m in the dark as to his needs or motives) so we are reliant on Kaitlyn’s POV which, as you say, focuses on her needs not being met.
I too think the lady doth protest too much in public and view it as emasculating. She may love him but I question the respect aspect.
I think she has opened Pandora’s box.

notarose wrote:

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:

petesiepoo wrote:

Cocoasneeze wrote:*snipped*She's been an open book about it all. He's the one who's been talking the talk without walking the walk.

To me, this is exactly the point - she HAS been open about her wants and needs, but he isn't willing to make that commitment, so that is why SHE needs to step back and hear what his actions are telling her. If it doesn't match what she wants in her life, then she needs to be willing to move on, and not just sit back whining about it. imo

That's quite unfair, imho. She's living in that relationship, she hears his reasonings and excuses, and they just might make sense to her each time. She doesn't have an outsiders objective view point, because she actually wants this relationship, wants to be with Shawn, and is in love with him. Perhaps until now she has been really happy with him even without marriage. It's easier said than done, that she has to measure his actions snd words and if they match up. I'm assuming, that he actually wants to be with her, they have fun together, and enjoy each others company. Months can go by easily without her feeling like her needs aren't met. Jmho.

That's why I made the point that IF his actions don't match what she wants, then she needs to reevaluate the relationship and move on if need be. I didn't say she has to leave him. Just don't whine publicly and humiliate them both if she doesn't like where this is going.

@petesiepoo If you are saying that Kaitlyn is responsible for her own happiness, I agree.
In a relationship I believe each person owns the choice to stay or go, to focus on the positive or the negative, to demand or compromise or yield, to work with or antagonize, to discover who their partner is or to try and mold them.  As far as I know, Shawn is not the one bringing relationship issues into the public arena (therefore I’m in the dark as to his needs or motives) so we are reliant on Kaitlyn’s POV which, as you say, focuses on her needs not being met.
I too think the lady doth protest too much in public and view it as emasculating. She may love him but I question the respect aspect.
I think she has opened Pandora’s box.

And this is why from the start I didn't give this couple high odds of making it. Kaitlyn has always admitted that she needs to be front and center. To me that is wearing. Yeah it may be cute at the start of a relationship, but after a while it gets old....unless things change...and it really doesn't appear that they have. Yes, she supports him in the things he wants to do, but it seems that is conditional...as long as it doesn't take time away from her.

Mature relationships ebb and flow. The honeymoon phase does not last for ever. To make it in the long run, couples need to learn to communicate and to compromise. Clearly not something these two seem to be doing. Airing their issues in public will not change that. If anything, by doing that Kaitlyn will just make Shawn more resentful IMO.

missnana wrote:

ilgirl wrote:So if they are hoping/planning to have kids, won't Kaitlyn still have to go back to Canada for a certain amount of time each year if they aren't married?  I guess I'm confused on the whole green card thing.  

yeah it makes no sense. The green card situation is serious business and if he is having cold feet he should not be treating it very dismissively.

A lot of my friends went thru similar situations with their boyfriends and in all cases it ended with an ultimatum which didn't lead to happy endings. It's a sad situation for Kaitlyn and I feel for her   , but she has to put her self first and what she wants in her future as a priority.

From the USCIS website:  Resident Alien  Applies to non-U.S. citizens currently residing in the United States. The term is applied in three different manners; please see Permanent Resident, Conditional Resident, and Returning Resident.  https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/resident-alien

If Kaitlyn still needs to spend time outside the US then she does not have a green card.  She probably lives in the US under a visitor visa which means that every so often she has to leave the US for a specified period of time.   https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit.html.  

This is what it says for non-resident alien parents of US citizen children.  http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/become-permanent-resident-through-citizen-child.html.

With the current limitations on immigration, she may find it harder to become a Resident Alien (Green Card) or even a U.S. citizen as steps are being taken to limit the influx of immigrants.