Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Mar 6th ATFR - #2 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Stone_Hedge wrote:

albean99 wrote:Well said, @Amethyst

I think Becca did very well last night. I think she decided that it wasn't worth being bitter and probably better to just move on. That doesn't mean that Arie didn't do things that she had questions or criticisms about or that she wasn't hurt by what he did, imo.

I'm very happy that Becca's going to be the Bachelorette but I don't think it takes away anything that she's gone through. I find it disturbing when the victim is blamed. Arie may have told her he was still thinking about Lauren but he was also talking to Becca about their future right up until the end. Becca's mistake was believing Arie. What about Lauren? She believes him just like Becca did. All JMO.

This pic says it all.  But notice his hands . He’s nervous but, that thumb still shows control and power. Jmo

What in the world do you mean by the bolded. I must be dunse but I am not getting it.

I can’t believe I read this entire thing!!
So many interesting opinions and posts.

This is what I have:

1) So great to see Jason and Molly. Beautiful couple and such a handsome man.  He said it perfectly (& a bit nervously, I might add) “This show messes with your mind!” or as Jilly put it: “This show is a mindf**k”   I agree!
2) I went unspoiled up to episode 5 or 6, and I never found a “love” connection between Arie & Becca. Just admiration & respect for one another.  She showed to be a wonderful, smart, classy woman. Arie was very impressed by her from the start.
3) I saw the chemistry and special, caring attention Arie had for Lauren from the start.  He looked at her in a different way than all the others.  I also saw he had the typical lust for Miss Bekah, but heck! Who wouldn’t? I’d be the same, and I am a woman, haha! She is a doll!
4) Once spoiled, I could not find the love between them still! In fact, I saw more & more how Arie & Lauren where at a different place emotionally. I am one of the few that could see tons of their interactions were not shown.  I could also see how reserved Lauren is, a quality that I found lovely about her.
5) Peru is magnificent!!
6) Kendall is a beautiful girl, inside & out. Smart, kind, thoughtful and quirky. Loved how she approached so many situations head on, and the way she reasoned with all involved when needed.
7) At the end of it all, I am happy for all involved.
8) I do not quite believe that Becca, Arie & Lauren knew all along, and they were “playing” how this was turning out per se...BUT, I always had a feeling that Becca was putting on a bit of a show, specially during the last 4 episodes. NOT about her character, and who she is as a woman, because she clearly is a wonderful person. But about how much she was “falling in love” or “in love” with Arie.  It was almost all too perfectly scripted. THIS is MY OPINION please. My own thoughts and how I read what I saw on my screen.
9) I agree, Arie should have never proposed at all! Again: “Mindf**k” is what the show does to the lead specially!
10) Do not agree or disagree with them showing the “brake up” life and “unedited” - I saw Becca more concerned about being “embarrassed” more than heartbroken (and she kept on repeating this many times!) More concerned about what people would say or think of her, in a way (“This is so embarrassing”) Of course it was embarrassing, but if I am in love with a man, and see myself “growing old” with him, and “having his children”, that word is the last thing on my mind! I would be: “But I love you so much, you said how much you loved me too, what are you feeling now? Why did you stop loving me? “ or “I have been understanding and supportive, but this is truly hurting me because I am so in love with you!” - Which she never said.  She also had no tears (in my opinion) and only shed a few out of her embarrassment.
11) After watching this, I knew Arie had not chosen the right woman for him, and maybe he was made felt the pressure of the right one “on paper” and how safe it would be, etc etc
12) I knew then, that Arie and Lauren owed it to each other to try and mend their relationship.  
13) Circumstances were not ideal, but production is a beast, and Arie was not strong enough to stop them.  
14) I think (IMO again) that Becca never suffered one bit. I don’t think she loved him either. She even said it on Monday night: “this is my story” - where else would she say that? Only if she was already approached to be the next lead. This is the only time those words have meaning.  She knew from before. I have no doubt, even if I don’t have proof.
15) I like Arie, I liked how he was on his season. I still think he is the best kisser in the franchise, and I think he has a good heart. His family is very nice also, very real people! What happened after his finale as a lead, did not change my opinion about him.  If anything, I think he was a tad naive...
16) I like Lauren, and how she beams when looking at Arie (& viseverse) She is shy and reserved, but I think she is a good person.
I wish them the very best! I will continue to follow them on SM
17) I wish the very best to Becca also. She will be great as the lead, from what we saw of her interacting with those guys (Those guys were all so handsome and seemed so nice! Loved Leopoldo!!!)
18) At the end of it all, everybody ended up with, maybe not what they wanted originally, but certainly with what they needed in their lives (thank you “The Rolling Stones” )

Have a wonderful day all!!

FLChica wrote:I'm perplexed. Viewers are calling Becca brave, classy, strong, saying she moved on, is better off without Arie and predicting she will slay as the Bachelorette. This doesn't describe a "victim" to me. 

Becca was embarrassed, disappointed, angry - all normal emotions experienced by nearly every F4 contestant that ever appeared on this show. Becca stated she knew when she signed on the dotted line this could happen. Becca performed her first act as The Bachelorette quite well last night. Seems she's 1000% over Arie IMO.

To me Becca was "victimized" more by the ex-BF for seven freaking years than she was by Arie. But that's just my opinion.

Becca is brave, classy, strong ... and it has nothing to do with Arie, the Bachelor or "this journey" ... she only was able to "demonstrate" that on this show with the failed romance with Arie ... and she moved on indeed ... she was never a victim ... neither did she played a victim (which I respect) ... to reply to 3rd paragraph ... she didn't victimize herself, neither have any of 2 guys approached her as the victim (of their actions, quite contrary) ... it was the Fans of the show (Becca's) who put her in that spot ... and why many feel outrage towards Arie - JMO.

But Becca is no victim here ... that doesn't mean that Arie has done no wrong ... and Arie has wronged her by chosing her (and making her believe, making promises he had no intention to keep) ... but then his mistake led to her greater exposure, now Bachelorette gig ... so all good for her (that doesn't mean all good at the end ... because good outcome for one doesn't erase the mistake of the other) - JMO.

IMO Becca was of course aware of "Arie's struggle" (love for Lauren) ... but in no way do I believe she knew the reality of the situation, because Arie IMO lied (omitted) ... But I said it weeks before ... I don't think she was heartbroken as much as "the show" wants us to believe, I don't think she was blindsided in a way a woman who is 100% confident that there's a future with the guy is ... I believe she knew all along that the romance wasn't as strong as it should be ... she settled IMHO ... something she said on her 1st 1on1 she would never do again ... she settled, because it was the environment that gave her false pretense ... but the show itself, just like it isn't an excuse for Arie's mistake, isn't the reason for Becca to lower her principles/standards ... so that mistake is on her ... and indeed ... she was angry, hurt, embarrassed and disappointed ... as much in Arie ... as in herself - IMO. Henc the tears at the break-up ... and then moving on without lashing on Arie.

IMO they both made great error (because it hurt more than 2 people) ... she for settling (out of convenience of the fairytale engagement) ... him for lying (to himself, more than to the audience, but consequently also to 2 women who should matter in this great love story).

And the only wish for Becca I can offer is to not settle for anything less (and what isn't worth it) now that she is the Bachelorette ... don't make the 3rd mistake ... if she can learn anything from Arie.

TrishB wrote:I can’t believe I read this entire thing!!
So many interesting opinions and posts.

snip for brevity

Have a wonderful day all!!

I love the hearing from the non-spoiled because IMO they just seem to look at the show through a different lens - less distorted by preconceived notions - and truly thank you for your patience in reading this entire thing and sharing your perspectives (which BTW are barely if any different than my own).

IMO this was production's circus (story board) and the principal players (Becca, Lauren and Arie) were production's monkeys. Though I've toyed with the notion that Arie, Becca and Lauren were "in on the plan" I no longer think that any of them were "in on it" in total. IMO there are some clues that some of them probably knew some things - just enough to get them to do what production wanted them to do if that was the best way to get them to jump through the right hoops.

TrishB wrote:I can’t believe I read this entire thing!!
So many interesting opinions and posts.

This is what I have:

1) So great to see Jason and Molly. Beautiful couple and such a handsome man.  He said it perfectly (& a bit nervously, I might add) “This show messes with your mind!” or as Jilly put it: “This show is a mindf**k”   I agree!
2) I went unspoiled up to episode 5 or 6, and I never found a “love” connection between Arie & Becca. Just admiration & respect for one another.  She showed to be a wonderful, smart, classy woman. Arie was very impressed by her from the start.
3) I saw the chemistry and special, caring attention Arie had for Lauren from the start.  He looked at her in a different way than all the others.  I also saw he had the typical lust for Miss Bekah, but heck! Who wouldn’t? I’d be the same, and I am a woman, haha! She is a doll!
4) Once spoiled, I could not find the love between them still! In fact, I saw more & more how Arie & Lauren where at a different place emotionally. I am one of the few that could see tons of their interactions were not shown.  I could also see how reserved Lauren is, a quality that I found lovely about her.
5) Peru is magnificent!!
6) Kendall is a beautiful girl, inside & out. Smart, kind, thoughtful and quirky. Loved how she approached so many situations head on, and the way she reasoned with all involved when needed.
7) At the end of it all, I am happy for all involved.
8) I do not quite believe that Becca, Arie & Lauren knew all along, and they were “playing” how this was turning out per se...BUT, I always had a feeling that Becca was putting on a bit of a show, specially during the last 4 episodes. NOT about her character, and who she is as a woman, because she clearly is a wonderful person. But about how much she was “falling in love” or “in love” with Arie.  It was almost all too perfectly scripted. THIS is MY OPINION please. My own thoughts and how I read what I saw on my screen.
9) I agree, Arie should have never proposed at all! Again: “Mindf**k” is what the show does to the lead specially!
10) Do not agree or disagree with them showing the “brake up” life and “unedited” - I saw Becca more concerned about being “embarrassed” more than heartbroken (and she kept on repeating this many times!) More concerned about what people would say or think of her, in a way (“This is so embarrassing”) Of course it was embarrassing, but if I am in love with a man, and see myself “growing old” with him, and “having his children”, that word is the last thing on my mind! I would be: “But I love you so much, you said how much you loved me too, what are you feeling now? Why did you stop loving me? “ or “I have been understanding and supportive, but this is truly hurting me because I am so in love with you!” - Which she never said.  She also had no tears (in my opinion) and only shed a few out of her embarrassment.
11) After watching this, I knew Arie had not chosen the right woman for him, and maybe he was made felt the pressure of the right one “on paper” and how safe it would be, etc etc
12) I knew then, that Arie and Lauren owed it to each other to try and mend their relationship.  
13) Circumstances were not ideal, but production is a beast, and Arie was not strong enough to stop them.  
14) I think (IMO again) that Becca never suffered one bit. I don’t think she loved him either. She even said it on Monday night: “this is my story” - where else would she say that? Only if she was already approached to be the next lead. This is the only time those words have meaning.  She knew from before. I have no doubt, even if I don’t have proof.
15) I like Arie, I liked how he was on his season. I still think he is the best kisser in the franchise, and I think he has a good heart. His family is very nice also, very real people! What happened after his finale as a lead, did not change my opinion about him.  If anything, I think he was a tad naive...
16) I like Lauren, and how she beams when looking at Arie (& viseverse) She is shy and reserved, but I think she is a good person.
I wish them the very best! I will continue to follow them on SM
17) I wish the very best to Becca also. She will be great as the lead, from what we saw of her interacting with those guys (Those guys were all so handsome and seemed so nice! Loved Leopoldo!!!)
18) At the end of it all, everybody ended up with, maybe not what they wanted originally, but certainly with what they needed in their lives (thank you “The Rolling Stones” )

Have a wonderful day all!!

What an incredibly thoughtful and insightful post.

happygolucky wrote:I don't think she was blindsided in a way a woman who is 100% confident that there's a future with the guy is ... I believe she knew all along that the romance wasn't as strong as it should be .

Becca's recent tweet:

@thebkoof wrote:
Rebecca Kufrin
‏@thebkoof
Mar 6

Deep down, I knew.

source

Seems, IMO, to support your thought that she that she knew.

Yes, they sure did jump through the hoops.....

Lucas15 wrote:

happygolucky wrote:I don't think she was blindsided in a way a woman who is 100% confident that there's a future with the guy is ... I believe she knew all along that the romance wasn't as strong as it should be .

Becca's recent tweet:

@thebkoof wrote:
Rebecca Kufrin
‏@thebkoof
Mar 6

Deep down, I knew.

source

Seems, IMO, to support your thought that she that she knew.

The tweet of "deep down I knew" was in context of her photo in first one. It was more of a funny tweet than actually meaning that she "knew"

Deep down, I knew. pic.twitter.com/mJDMqeKzzL

— Rebecca Kufrin (@thebkoof) March 6, 2018

Stone_Hedge wrote:

albean99 wrote:Well said, @Amethyst

I think Becca did very well last night. I think she decided that it wasn't worth being bitter and probably better to just move on. That doesn't mean that Arie didn't do things that she had questions or criticisms about or that she wasn't hurt by what he did, imo.

I'm very happy that Becca's going to be the Bachelorette but I don't think it takes away anything that she's gone through. I find it disturbing when the victim is blamed. Arie may have told her he was still thinking about Lauren but he was also talking to Becca about their future right up until the end. Becca's mistake was believing Arie. What about Lauren? She believes him just like Becca did. All JMO.

This pic says it all.  But notice his hands . He’s nervous but, that thumb still shows control and power

This picture does say it all. There is no point in trying to get answers from a liar, they will never tell the truth. Becca was smart enough to realize that and move on. It doesn’t excuse Arie or make him an honest person, rather IMO it makes Becca smart to not waste anymore time on someone who is incapable of respect or empathy for others.  JMO.


Arie is a lying douche, his evolving lies over media day show this. Lauren likes it and supports it, now if they will actually go away and stop revealing the level of their joint deceit we can all move on to Becca. We are still talking because A&L are still talking and inadvertently revealing more of their lies. Go away and stop talking and let us move on. JMO.

missnana wrote:The tweet of "deep down I knew" was in context of her photo in first one. It was more of a funny tweet than actually meaning that she "knew"

Deep down, I knew. pic.twitter.com/mJDMqeKzzL

— Rebecca Kufrin (@thebkoof) March 6, 2018

She is funny, sarcastic and self-deprecating. I doubt she even knows that these speculations exist.
JMO

IMO regardless of the context of her "Deep down, I knew" tweet, deep down she knew. IMO how could she not?

At the time of the FRC, TPTB had manipulated a role reversal between Becca and Lauren. The one who had fought her fears throughout filming (Lauren) was suddenly the confident one and the one who had been confident all along (Becca) was suddenly afraid of the "competition" (Lauren). This was, IMO, the perfect storm for the FRC as production sees it - the confident one gets stunned by being dumped and the fearful one is overjoyed by being chosen. Production had both women exactly where they wanted them.

So Becca leaves the FRC podium never really knowing how Arie felt about Lauren - only knowing that he proposed to her. To face - what? Arie struggling with his feelings for Lauren? Admitting to her that he still had feelings and trying to work through them? And (IMO very likely) production telling her that he might be struggling but was not considering a breakup? If at least a deep down part of her did not realize that this could end badly for her then I am really fearful of what is going to happen on her own season and she finds herself being put into the same situation they put Arie (and many many leads before him) into. IMO this is why many leads suddenly understand how difficult it was for their previous lead only after they have actually been there themselves.

IMO the manipulations for a cast member (chase the lead because they are such a great catch) are different for the lead (compartmentalize and envision how life would be with each option so you can make the best choice). That advice to the lead is framed by those "friendly" producers so that it seems to make perfect sense and leads to their best choice but that's not their goal. They want the lead to continue to court all choices right up to the FRC so they can have credible footage for more than one person and so the FRC repeats the previous scenario with a heartbroken F2 and an overjoyed F1. IMO the cast doesn't anticipate this because they are not subject to it until they become a lead.
JMHO

Lucas15 wrote: *snipped* IMO the cast doesn't anticipate this because they are not subject to it until they become a lead.
JMHO

I cannot imagine going on this "journey" as a cast member without digging into it a little bit. Very little research would lead them to the evidence of the games that are played. Maybe if I was a twenty-something though, I just wouldn't worry about it since the bad stuff always happens to the other guy....