Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Mar 6th ATFR - #2 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

albean99 wrote:I think what disappoints me most in the blaming of Becca, the picking apart everything she said or did, or speculating that she's going to get it when she's lead, is that it seems to be used as a way to absolve or diminish Arie's actions, imo. Arie did what he wanted to do and that's on him, imo. Of course he shouldn't have proposed to her. I did see a connection between them early on while unspoiled but then we didn't see much so I wasn't sure if she was the hidden f1 or not. Lauren was basically non-existent for the time I was unspoiled so I had no idea that she was even in the mix. We later saw their connection but it's not like Becca was with them on those dates. How was she to know that Arie was had a greater connection with Lauren? The cast has to have an open heart as much as the lead does and also has to push past the fact that there are others there. He seemed believable to me when he proposed to Becca so again, I can't blame her for not knowing. You can't accept a proposal from someone if you don't think they're sincere, imo.

This is what I’ve seen too, ever since the switch was spoiled. It is sad IMO.

albean99 wrote:I hope that we can move on at some point and enjoy (or not) Becca's season and let Arie & Lauren ride off into the sunset of Arizona.

Aria wrote:

Mommyof2 wrote:(snipped) Mark my words, people will turn on her just like they turned on Arie.  Happened with Ben.  Happened with JoJo.  This is no different.  Becca is not exempt from TPTB shenanigans.  All they care about are ratings and people talking.  JMO.

People turned on leads like Ben and Jojo for like 40 seconds. *IMO* (snipped)

Excuse me for asking ... I didn't follow closely those seasons (saw Jojo's towards the end) ... but I don't recall Ben or Jojo being dragged over the coals, when? Sure, I remember that Ben said 2 ILYs, but he chose 1 and stuck with her long enough ... that he continues to be the most loveable Bachelor to date (for all the media), despite all his "shenaningans" that go hand in hand with TPTB. While for Jojo I only can think of some dissatisfying fans of Luke when she let him go as F4 and I don't think there are still people thinking she made a wrong call, or are we talking about Jordan's reputation (and his family) filling the pages of the media? Even that was over as soon they showed strong front together and Jojo continues to top the charts among BN fans. In overall picture IMO Ben and Jojo had a good, positive season.

Aria wrote:

Mommyof2 wrote:

Hawaii Girl wrote:
Agreed. It seems almost gleefully vindictive to me. Like people want to "punish" Becca and want her to fail, just so that Arie looks better.

JMO.

Nobody wants her to fail, but she knew what she signed up for, so...or wait, she probably doesn't know...YET.   Mark my words, people will turn on her just like they turned on Arie.  Happened with Ben.  Happened with JoJo.  This is no different.  Becca is not exempt from TPTB shenanigans.  All they care about are ratings and people talking.  JMO.

People turned on leads like Ben and Jojo for like 40 seconds. *IMO* Then they went back to being fan favorites and having the highest followings in social media for their respective gender. I think people really exaggerate the backlash. Yeah, all leads have a couple of rough months, but for the vast majority of female leads, it is very short-lived and they emerge from the show richer, happier, in love, and with career advancement. Someone like Arie? He's going down in history as one of the worst, not because of any edit or shenanigans from the show, but his own actions. Incomparable to Becca, who does not have his history of cheating, lying, and manipulating. IMO.

Has nothing to with blaming the victim, it's just the truth about this show. Most have been watching this show for a long time, and seen what happens over and over. We think Becca is this saint, that she's exempted from it...no because they already shown her that she's not by filming the break up (meaning ratings come first). I watched this show since Aaron's season and I see it every time how the person is loved until they become the lead and that other side is revealed, or they say and do something the fans don't like. This worshiping going on with Becca is the same exact worshiping that went on with DeAnna, she was going to be a great lead. She's still being talked about negatively today, no it isn't as bad as it was after her season but she is still called Meanna.

No one is saying this to diminish Arie's actions. Arie's actions has nothing to with what will happen on her season...it will all be on Becca but I got a feeling he will be blamed for it anyway.
JMO

littlereddress wrote:

Mommyof2 wrote:

Hawaii Girl wrote:
Agreed. It seems almost gleefully vindictive to me. Like people want to "punish" Becca and want her to fail, just so that Arie looks better.

JMO.

Nobody wants her to fail, but she knew what she signed up for, so...or wait, she probably doesn't know...YET.   Mark my words, people will turn on her just like they turned on Arie.  Happened with Ben.  Happened with JoJo.  This is no different.  Becca is not exempt from TPTB shenanigans.  All they care about are ratings and people talking.  JMO.

Wow (Lauren quote), I think Becca is well liked because of her personality.  She seems sincere and I believe she is.   IMO, If she is "turned" on I think it will be because she sends a fan favorite (s) home.  That seems to be what sets off fans and it happens every season because people get attached and may feel they know who is best for Becca, who she should pick.

Right! For what little they see of it now, give more time they will see more of it. This show isn't like what it was back in the day. Back then they where coming on the show for love but it's for everything except love now, so you can't guarantee you will come out with someone. I knew Nick wouldn't stay with Vanessa because he wasn't really looking for someone But what he can get for doing the show. Another thing l learned your words always come back to bite you...or what you do. DeAnna thought she would do a better job that what Brad did, huh, she had to apologize to him. Desiree wasn't interested in Sean, she just wanted the lead spot, look what happened, Brooke dipped on her. So if Becca think she'll do a better job...go ahead.

pbmax wrote:We think Becca is this saint, that she's exempted from it...no because they already shown her that she's not by filming the break up (meaning ratings come first). I watched this show since Aaron's season and I see it every time how the person is loved until they become the lead and that other side is revealed, or they say and do something the fans don't like. This worshiping going on with Becca ... **snipped**

I highly doubt Becca is viewed as a saint ... True, there are fans who believe to know her and when she won't "perform" like they would like her to, they will turn on her ... but those are just 1 portion of the fans ... there are still fans who don't have the expectations or are willing to understand (her) even when they may not agree with every action ... and then there are people who aren't fans of Becca, but like her, support her or cheer for her even when she isn't "all perfect" ... because there are people who don't expect perfection, they just like authenticity, genuineness, etc.  ... there are all kinds of viewers and tastes ... but at the end, while one episode may cause some to turn away, the same episode will gain new followers ... She may do something that people won't like, but she always has a chance to gain ground with the follow-up actions ... nothing is set in stone ... if one is clever enough. I think the worshipping BN fans are only the smallest percentage and those people who worship, usually are on the same level as people who spread hate, they are always the loudest, but their fandom has little to do with the person in question and has everything to do with insufficiency in their lives, trying to live vicariously through someone else's. I don't think that is what we have here, where people are placing the arguments for their opinions.

albean99 wrote:I think what disappoints me most in the blaming of Becca, the picking apart everything she said or did, or speculating that she's going to get it when she's lead, is that it seems to be used as a way to absolve or diminish Arie's actions, imo. Arie did what he wanted to do and that's on him, imo. Of course he shouldn't have proposed to her. I did see a connection between them early on while unspoiled but then we didn't see much so I wasn't sure if she was the hidden f1 or not. Lauren was basically non-existent for the time I was unspoiled so I had no idea that she was even in the mix. We later saw their connection but it's not like Becca was with them on those dates. How was she to know that Arie was had a greater connection with Lauren? The cast has to have an open heart as much as the lead does and also has to push past the fact that there are others there. He seemed believable to me when he proposed to Becca so again, I can't blame her for not knowing. You can't accept a proposal from someone if you don't think they're sincere, imo.

I hope that we can move on at some point and enjoy (or not) Becca's season and let Arie & Lauren ride off into the sunset of Arizona.

great post @albean99 I don't understand how Arie can get away with anything after everything he has put Becca through. It's perplexing to say the least.

IMO the scary part for Becca is that right now she is being placed very high on a pedestal and we know how that can turn out for a lead or a contestant. She will be scrutinized like every other lead and if shenanigans go on behind the scenes which they will and people question her judgement it might not be the smoothest ride. But I think she is going in well loved and supported so I predict a good season for her. I am waiting to see what type of guy she is drawn to and why.

@pbmax I'm not sure what makes you think people haven't seen enough of Becca's true colors? For all the contestants, leads that I've seen in the years I've been following ... all the people I didn't like (for who they showed themselves to be, not for what TPTB made me want to think of them) ... I continue not to like. For example: Andi - I didn't like her watching her season (I still wrote some positive things about her that I don't deny, but I was hoping to see the change that never came) ... it was only later when I saw some scenes from her previous season as the contestant that I found out she was always like that ... so if I had watched JPG's season I wouldn't have given her season even a chance. While all the people I somehow liked (like Nick) ... I still like them. They aren't perfect, they never were, that's why I liked them in the first place, because they were/are themselves. Sometimes people can disappoint you, but usually the ones I've chosen to follow, because I've found often that my way of thinking coincides with theirs (expressed opinions, POV, actions), don't. Even when I don't agree with them, but I respect them (unless they are being disrespectful first) ... since it's their life.

Personally, I think to an extent, especially with social media being so prevalent now, most of the leads will go through the wringer. 
Each one handles it differently. 
IMO There is a bus out there with everyones name on it in life. There is always a train wreck waiting to happen. But not everyone gets decimated, some only get a scrape, while other might loose a limb. (figuratively speaking let's hope) 
This is what the show does. It doesn't matter who you are. IMO

littlereddress wrote:IMO the scary part for Becca is that right now she is being placed very high on a pedestal and we know how that can turn out for a lead or a contestant.  She will be scrutinized like every other lead and if shenanigans go on behind the scenes which they will and people question her judgement it might not be the smoothest ride.  But I think she is going in well loved and supported so I predict a good season for her.  I am waiting to see what type of guy she is drawn to and why.  

I actually don't think Becca's being put on a pedestal. It seems to me that people felt bad for what she went through and liked how she handled it and want her to find a guy who's only thinking about her. That's my wish anyway. You can like someone without thinking they're without faults and that's mostly what I see. JMO

Becca will have some bumps in the road during her show, just like anyone else, but that's not what I'm focusing on.

Kashathediva wrote:Personally, I think to an extent, especially with social media being so prevalent now, most of the leads will go through the wringer. 
Each one handles it differently. 
IMO There is a bus out there with everyones name on it in life. There is always a train wreck waiting to happen. But not everyone gets decimated, some only get a scrape, while other might loose a limb. (figuratively speaking let's hope) 
This is what the show does. It doesn't matter who you are. IMO

I agree with you. There is a bus with everyone's name on it . We all have a button, it takes an expert to find it and be willing to press it, because the resulting reaction could be prosperous/catastrophic, but the catastrophic is what this franchise aims for. TPTB has proved over and over that they are willing to push those buttons, that is the game.
Each cast member determines all that happens, to them, on this show. 1) The baggage they bring with them determines what their treatment will be --- Arie is a good example of this. 2) The outcome that they are desiring and how far they are willing to go for that outcome-----------fill in the blanks with those names, some walked away - Brooks, Sharleen, some played the game well - Corinne, some got pummeled - Olivia and many more. SM only makes the humiliation (not often the triumph) much more global. But if in the resulting relationship, you are able to ignore SM, work hard at the relationship and have aligned goals, the relationship does thrive - à la Kaitlyn, Jojo, Rachel and others. So, maybe even Arie's - the real work starts now. So, goodluck Arie, but I am ready to see what Becca makes of her opportunity. AMO.

Becca will not come out of her season unscathed. Nobody does but I think I'm hoping for a Trista and Ryan-esque season. We saw a love story all the way to a TV wedding.

I'm going to have fun though watching Becca! She's got a great personality and most people will be rooting for her to find the one. Some won't and will watch for the train wreck. I can't stop watching these shows for disasters like Arie that infuriate the heck out of me but I also do like it when I see a love story. I'm hoping for Becca's love story. Gosh, it's going to be a long 5-6 months from now!!