Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Feb 26 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

We all have our own opinions ... and mine is that she didn’t look all that surprised and then her words confirmed it for me. Something fishy here.

For what it's worth I just want to add, to my knowledge this show is highly edited. The producers are experts and slicing and dicing. Who knows if there wasn't countless takes to get exactly what we heard Becca say? And who knows if it wasn't shown out of context?

I also want to add, (gained from personal experience), Arie seems the sort of guy who makes a woman second guess her feelings are genuine. All his talk about not knowing how Lauren feels about him, makes me roll my eyes. And to see Becca so happy knowing Arie loves her made me sad. Maybe I'm naive, but I think Becca truly did believe what Arie told her to be true.

It is said, 'A leopard never changes its spots.' Arie's actions confirm to me why I believe this to be true.

blueblues wrote:They were together for seven years and they were on and off for at least some of that time. Becca has said that it was a unhealthy relationship, and that it was difficult to end. Her saying “I knew you’d do this” and his reply fit perfectly with that – it’s the same fight they have had dozens of times in the past, and they knew what the other would do and say before it happened. All JMHO

I'm inclined to think that this is the best explanation of that dialog. But I also think that this unhealthy pattern in a past relationship would have been probed and discovered by TPTB during the casting process when they asked about past relationships. So maybe they just got "easy for Ross to find" or they contacted him in advance to come to Peru and led him to believe that Becca was very open to a proposal from him. As others have said, a returning ex is no big deal because they've done it before - but what we haven't seen is a returning ex who would / could be induced to actually propose. It's 5 star drama and ups the ante over past shows and I think they would not have passed up the chance to do it. Further it does occur to me that the show may well have had a hand in making sure that Becca made it to very late in the show just so the returning ex gimmick could have maximum impact - similar to why I believe they made sure that Kendal got a HTD (regardless of how Arie felt) because who can resist stuffed rats on a diorama of Paris?
JMHO

Lucas15 wrote:

blueblues wrote:They were together for seven years and they were on and off for at least some of that time. Becca has said that it was a unhealthy relationship, and that it was difficult to end. Her saying “I knew you’d do this” and his reply fit perfectly with that – it’s the same fight they have had dozens of times in the past, and they knew what the other would do and say before it happened. All JMHO

I'm inclined to think that this is the best explanation of that dialog. But I also think that this unhealthy pattern in a past relationship would have been probed and discovered by TPTB during the casting process when they asked about past relationships. So maybe they just got "easy for Ross to find" or they contacted him in advance to come to Peru and led him to believe that Becca was very open to a proposal from him. As others have said, a returning ex is no big deal because they've done it before - but what we haven't seen is a returning ex who would / could be induced to actually propose. It's 5 star drama and ups the ante over past shows and I think they would not have passed up the chance to do it. Further it does occur to me that the show may well have had a hand in making sure that Becca made it to very late in the show just so the returning ex gimmick could have maximum impact - similar to why I believe they made sure that Kendal got a HTD (regardless of how Arie felt) because who can resist stuffed rats on a diorama of Paris?
JMHO

I'm thinking along these lines as well. 
They would have done pre-show interviews / background checks and would have come up with a list of production's favorites and  contestants who they believe have enough dirt/juice to make for great TV. That's not to say that Arie's inclination towards Becca was all producer-fed, but they could have very well given him a 'helpful push' towards Becca's way at the beginning to get the ball rolling. And let's be real, it's not the first time they've delved into and exploited contestants' pasts to further the story arc and ratings.

Lucas15 wrote:

blueblues wrote:They were together for seven years and they were on and off for at least some of that time. Becca has said that it was a unhealthy relationship, and that it was difficult to end. Her saying “I knew you’d do this” and his reply fit perfectly with that – it’s the same fight they have had dozens of times in the past, and they knew what the other would do and say before it happened. All JMHO

I'm inclined to think that this is the best explanation of that dialog. But I also think that this unhealthy pattern in a past relationship would have been probed and discovered by TPTB during the casting process when they asked about past relationships. So maybe they just got "easy for Ross to find" or they contacted him in advance to come to Peru and led him to believe that Becca was very open to a proposal from him. As others have said, a returning ex is no big deal because they've done it before - but what we haven't seen is a returning ex who would / could be induced to actually propose. It's 5 star drama and ups the ante over past shows and I think they would not have passed up the chance to do it. Further it does occur to me that the show may well have had a hand in making sure that Becca made it to very late in the show just so the returning ex gimmick could have maximum impact - similar to why I believe they made sure that Kendal got a HTD (regardless of how Arie felt) because who can resist stuffed rats on a diorama of Paris?
JMHO

Agree on first bold 100%.

As for second bold, if Arie listed her as one of his early favorites, I could totally see TPTB encouraging him to keep her around and starting the wheels in motion to get Ross to Peru. Didn't Tia post about getting the shots to go to Peru and then she didn't get to go? If so, they would have needed to get things set up with Ross for that as well. No way his trip was spur of the moment

While Ross never becomes violent, it never seems out of the realm of possibility for things to go badly, fast. We’re watching a large man, who flew all the way to Peru and then drove for five hours, get rejected on national TV. That’s unquestionably humiliating. Who would be surprised if Ross ended up getting violent? It’s not like reality TV isn’t known for its shocking brawls. And we don’t know if Ross, who clearly gives off the vibe he feels ownership of Becca, was given the full, lengthy psychological inspection regular Bachelor cast members are forced to undergo. Rather, it distinctly feels like Ross popped up in South America, and producers immediately tossed him in front of cameras the moment his suit was on.
You can say this kind of concern is overreacting, but it’s not when you take into account certain domestic violence statistics. Documentarian Cynthia Hill, who directed HBO’s 2014 domestic violence doc Private Violence, told The Guardian between 50% and 75% of domestic violence homicides happen after a woman leaves her relationship. A recent CDC report reveals about one third of intimate partner femicides occurred right after an argument (like telling an ex you don’t want to be with them anymore), and 12% of the total killings were associated with jealousy (like telling an ex you don’t want to be with them anymore because you’re in love with a reality TV bachelor. And that reality TV bachelor is right downstairs).

https://www.refinery29.com/2018/02/191933/bachelor-becca-ex-boyfriend-ross-stalking-dangerous

Stone_Hedge wrote:While Ross never becomes violent, it never seems out of the realm of possibility for things to go badly, fast. We’re watching a large man, who flew all the way to Peru and then drove for five hours, get rejected on national TV. That’s unquestionably humiliating. Who would be surprised if Ross ended up getting violent? It’s not like reality TV isn’t known for its shocking brawls. And we don’t know if Ross, who clearly gives off the vibe he feels ownership of Becca, was given the full, lengthy psychological inspection regular Bachelor cast members are forced to undergo. Rather, it distinctly feels like Ross popped up in South America, and producers immediately tossed him in front of cameras the moment his suit was on.
You can say this kind of concern is overreacting, but it’s not when you take into account certain domestic violence statistics. Documentarian Cynthia Hill, who directed HBO’s 2014 domestic violence doc Private Violence, told The Guardian between 50% and 75% of domestic violence homicides happen after a woman leaves her relationship. A recent CDC report reveals about one third of intimate partner femicides occurred right after an argument (like telling an ex you don’t want to be with them anymore), and 12% of the total killings were associated with jealousy (like telling an ex you don’t want to be with them anymore because you’re in love with a reality TV bachelor. And that reality TV bachelor is right downstairs).

https://www.refinery29.com/2018/02/191933/bachelor-becca-ex-boyfriend-ross-stalking-dangerous

To be fair, the article seems to do all the finger-pointing @ Ross and not production. They green-lighted (and most likely encouraged) his decision to pursue Becca in Peru. May have even told him that it was the ultimate 'romantic gesture'. Bottom line is, this article paints Ross - and some may argue rather unfairly - as a potential (violent) stalker/psycho when in fact, production may have very well encouraged and/or proposed this idea to him. They're just as bad if not worse IMO.

summerdayze wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

blueblues wrote:They were together for seven years and they were on and off for at least some of that time. Becca has said that it was a unhealthy relationship, and that it was difficult to end. Her saying “I knew you’d do this” and his reply fit perfectly with that – it’s the same fight they have had dozens of times in the past, and they knew what the other would do and say before it happened. All JMHO

I'm inclined to think that this is the best explanation of that dialog. But I also think that this unhealthy pattern in a past relationship would have been probed and discovered by TPTB during the casting process when they asked about past relationships. So maybe they just got "easy for Ross to find" or they contacted him in advance to come to Peru and led him to believe that Becca was very open to a proposal from him. As others have said, a returning ex is no big deal because they've done it before - but what we haven't seen is a returning ex who would / could be induced to actually propose. It's 5 star drama and ups the ante over past shows and I think they would not have passed up the chance to do it. Further it does occur to me that the show may well have had a hand in making sure that Becca made it to very late in the show just so the returning ex gimmick could have maximum impact - similar to why I believe they made sure that Kendal got a HTD (regardless of how Arie felt) because who can resist stuffed rats on a diorama of Paris?
JMHO

I'm thinking along these lines as well. 
They would have done pre-show interviews / background checks and would have come up with a list of production's favorites and  contestants who they believe have enough dirt/juice to make for great TV. That's not to say that Arie's inclination towards Becca was all producer-fed, but they could have very well given him a 'helpful push' towards Becca's way at the beginning to get the ball rolling. And let's be real, it's not the first time they've delved into and exploited contestants' pasts to further the story arc and ratings.

Well, they did pick her for the first date and the princess date. Because, we know TPTB picks at least the initial round of 1:1 dates.

ETA: TPTB are bad. Ross played along or fell for it. It does seem he was into the push and pull dynamic by Becca’s words and his possible ownership a year after a break up is a bit disconcerting.

JMO.

summerdayze wrote:snipThat's not to say that Arie's inclination towards Becca was all producer-fed, but they could have very well given him a 'helpful push' towards Becca's way at the beginning to get the ball rolling. And let's be real, it's not the first time they've delved into and exploited contestants' pasts to further the story arc and ratings.

It most surely isn't the first time they would have meddled with things to get them to turn out the way they wanted, IMO - I can think of others from the past. It doesn't always work. But one way they might "plant a suggestion" or make someone memorable is an earlt 1-1 date. On Jason's season Jillian (next bachelorette) and Melissa (initial F1) both got 1-1 dates on episode 2. Courtney (Ben F' season) got an episode 2 1-1 and went on to be F1 even though she was that season's villain. And Becca got an episode 2 1-1 and went on to become the initial F1. Maybe there's a pattern here?

havadrpepper wrote:if Arie listed her as one of his early favorites, I could totally see TPTB encouraging him to keep her around and starting the wheels in motion to get Ross to Peru. snip
No way his trip was spur of the moment

ITA with this - it took some forethought and planning and they spent some $$ doing it. IMO no way it was a last minute thought - maybe IMO more a first minute though that turned into a plan. IMO no matter how it may seem, nothing on this show happens by accident.

Many people I work with travel around the world for work. When you have a last minute fill in most shots can be given closer to the travel date if necessary. 

It was probably still planned.

Every time I think about Ross and his lame trip I immediately think what excuse did he give Stanford football coach David Shaw so that he could have a few days off in the middle of football season?

“Hey coach. I need to head out of town. Why you ask? My ex girlfriend who i haven’t talked to in a year might get engaged and I want to stop her. No I really don’t want her back. I just don’t want anyone else to be with her.”

CH mentioned that very point in a recent post, showing Stanford’s football schedule and commenting they had four important games in November with no bye weeks.  I can’t imagine this went down well in the Stanford athletic department.