Peter Kraus - Bachelorette 13 - Discussion - #9

Keepit100 wrote:Whether or not Peter wanted to be bachelor or his "goals" before joining the show have zero to do with his feelings for Rachel. He didn't know her until he got on the show. He felt a connection with her right away. He was "pleasantly surprised".  Many people saw that connection and Rachel felt it too. It's not fake or an act, IMO, because some thing like that cannot truly be faked.  He touches Rachel plenty. He's not as forward and touchy as TOG, but shows affection in many other ways. If you don't like somebody, you don't focus in on them, listen, and pay attention to the details as he does with her.  
He hasn't been manipulative. He's been honest with her the whole time. I just don't see how some see him as some evil mastermind looking to break her heart and then kick her to the curb, all for what?? What does he have to gain in that?  It doesn't fit with his character one bit, IMO.

IA, I don't see him being manipulative. I see that his words don't match his actions but I suspect that much of his affection and other interactions with Rachel haven't been shown, unlike with Bryan. If there hadn't been any obvious clues for Bryan being f1, then I might think that this was being done on purpose to trick viewers into thinking that there's no way it could be Peter - he's just not that into her. But because there have been some clues for Bryan f1 plus what we have seen between them, then I don't know what to think. I keep thinking there's going to be a twist, that the producers wouldn't make it so obvious.

I think there is a lot of manipulation between peter and rachel.

Rachel, because she wanted to "fix things". But I think she was pushed by her handler to do it. Also Rachel is a very opinionated and stubborn woman. I think she is ready to negotiate. Part of her job too. In a way she is very similar as Peter (saw her psy etc).... but the major difference is that 1/ she was open 2/ she was infatuated.

Peter on the other hand is also opinionated and stubborn but I think he wants to have the last word and always think he is right and never want to negotiate because he is convinced he is right. 1/ he was never open 2/ he was never into her

This are 2 very strong personalities that cannot match together. Even falling in love would have been IMO a huge task after the honeymoon time.

I see Peter manipulative just because he knew perfectly well (from episode 1 when he received the first rose at the RC) that Rachel liked him. His "pleasantly surprised" was ridiculous as if he was expecting to get what else? AND this statement means IMO that he had preconceived notions that the date with her would not be a good one? His walls were just putting her in a box of "she is a mandatory task I need to use in order to get what I WANT". He came for exposure. I think he did not think of Rachel much as a person but more as a goal to achieve. I think he came on this show very biased and jaded because of his 4 years of modeling where everyone use everyone. I think he was caught off guard not knowing if he wanted to stay after F4 (after dean's departure) and the family visits.

So yes. I saw a manipulative guy. I saw a jealous/mean guy (2 times: chess play and watches). I saw so many faces of pouting faces, unhappy faces, self satisfaction faces etc... I do not recall him laughing really really hard and showing his happiness with rachel, maybe the other guys, but not rachel.

So no matter how we put it. peter manipulated rachel in a way to keep him around until the F4. After that, I will give him the benefice of the doubt that the prods wanted him for drama. Peter was never into Rachel.

Rachel on the other hand said that she dealt with the kind of Peter before. Never committing fully. I think she wanted him to bend in a very very selfish way. I think he represented all the guys she dated before. Yes she had a crush but her heart was always with Bryan. And yes, I totally agree that Rachel was selfish but at the end of the day she needed someone who would compromise (and we see that every time on interview when she talks about her fiance: "he follows my lead" "he loves me very very much" "he is what he said he was and even more"). Bryan is compromising the way Peter cannot do (with her or with anyone else or maybe he will with the woman he loves but I honestly doubt it. been there, lived it)

peter is not evil (and yes ALL contestants can be named manipulative too!). He is not a machiavellian guy to hurt her but he sure made plans to stay as long as possible to gain as much exposure as possible. All the contestants want that, regardless if they like or not the lead, regardless if the lead like them or not. But no matter how to put it: Peter knew Rachel had a big crush on him. Using someone's feelings and knowing the feelings are not reciprocated... there is no other word but manipulation in my book. imo

IMO he sure used rachel and took advantage of her infatuation to remain in the "competition"... the same way he is using his IG to the max in order to get the maximum promo he can get out of this. For me Peter USED the situation, USED rachel's feelings, USED the show... and in my book using means manipulation if he did not reciprocate or match the same things. He knew for a long time that Rachel was not the one. He could talk about walls, when we fall in love, we have no walls. We just try to protect ourselves. Not proposing is totally fine but what did he expect? An overnight illumination during the fantasy night?

and the best example was when he told rachel he was falling in love with her right before meeting her parents. So so romantic, not even during a kiss, just cold.... for what? to look good in front of her parents and not be considered as a playa? He could have said in the same tone: By the way, I forgot to mention it last time but I am allergic to carrots... same effect IMO

JMOAA

I think all of us will have to agree to disagree.  Our opinions and preferences are subjective.  I personally, find Peter to be the slimiest, most calculating, (has ZERO interest in the lead) F2's this show has ever had.  But, that's just my opinion!! 

coolangel wrote:I would use Rachel's following words to say why I think Peter was playing for the Bachelor gig all along and used Rachel as a means to an end IMO. This is exactly how I and many others saw Peter this season. Rachel clearly agrees IMO.

That was the struggle, the push and pull in my relationship with Peter, he was giving me just enough to stay around without taking a stance on his feelings.

Source: http://people.com/tv/bachelorette-rachel-lindsay-exclusive-blog-fantasy-suites-final-3/

All JMO

I think Peter was taking a stance on his feelings but his stance wasn't what Rachel wanted to hear. He said he was falling in love but wasn't sure he would be ready to propose at the FRC. That stance seems pretty clear. Peter doesn't make Rachel give him a rose she makes that decision all on her own. He told her honestly where he was in this process I don't see that as manipulative. If he is in love but isn't ready to propose, should he propose anyway? I don't think so.

Rachel wanted three guys in love with her, ring in hand, ready to propose on cue by MTP. She didn't get this and was disappointed. All is well bc she picked the guy that was ready. I hope she gets her happy ending.

bleuberry wrote:All that work and 10 years of planning. Can we just let the guy have his well-earned season?

I don't know if it was really too much work and scheming or just luck, but no thanks.  I can already tell you how it'll go.  He'll go from beloved to disliked, pick the blonde model from CA and 6-18 months from now they'll break up, IMO.  Sorry we've already seen that , it'd just be a repeat of Ben's season, IMO.  So I say let's try something different.  

JMO

ETA: No slight meant, it's just how the typical season plays out. I'd like someone who doesn't have so much like/dislike already built in. I don't need another season like Nick's or this season where the drama just overwhelms the whole season and you see very little of the actual relationships with the lead. I mean 2 of our F6 this season left us, or me, saying who and how are they still there.

Nibbles22 wrote:I think all of us will have to agree to disagree.  Our opinions and preferences are subjective.  I personally, find Peter to be the slimiest, most calculating, (has ZERO interest in the lead) F2's this show has ever had.  But, that's just my opinion!! 

I'm wary of him also. To be honest, I haven't really seen a true connection between he and Rachel. He has said alot of words but not followed up with actions, of course only from what has been shown. JMO

HEA wrote:^^ I am not convinced of that. I think most people do see it as a weakness. Someone who has no control, someone who is messed up. For me it takes a lot of courage to get out of it... but the majority of people will not see it that way and consider it a mental weakness

Hopefully, by bringing attention to eating disorders more people will understand it better and recognize it as a medical condition  (like chemical dependency, depression.....and diabetes) and not as a weakness.

@rolly ITA. Manipulative to me would be deceitful and dishonest and he hasn't done that. He's been upfront with her. The decision is completely in her hands, not his. She doesn't want what he is willing to give and I don't knock her for that at all. Yes, they are both stubborn. You see that in how Rachel defended TOG.

One other thing that has been bothering me. Rachel said she thought TOG was a douche bag at first, but got over that. If she thought this, when exactly? Because she gave him the FIR and said she knew what it meant to receive it when Nick gave it to her. Seems odd. Doesn't really matter at this point but I thought it was odd.

Rolly wrote:

HEA wrote:^^ I am not convinced of that. I think most people do see it as a weakness. Someone who has no control, someone who is messed up. For me it takes a lot of courage to get out of it... but the majority of people will not see it that way and consider it a mental weakness

Hopefully, by bringing attention to eating disorders more people will understand it better and recognize it as a medical condition  (like chemical dependency, depression.....and diabetes) and not as a weakness.

I doubt it to be honest.
I think, unless you've seen it with your own eyes or you experienced it or you've known people going thru it, people do not care. They will see only the surface of it and will judge quickly with preconceived ideas.

Keepit100 wrote:I don't take liking a comment on FB (when was this, a year ago or more???) as any indication of his feelings for Rachel. It's irrelevant. He didn't know her or of her at that time. He has said he wants to be with her outside of the "bubble" with hopes of leading to an engagement. He clearly feels he needs more time to really get to know her before proposing and wants to do that outside the show. How is that strategizing for the bachelor gig? Yes, something is holding him back from going "all in" and I think it is doubt.
To assume he has scripted out the last 10 years of his life and every action to lead to this point is far fetched, IMO.

Thank you for saying this I mean...... August 7th can't come any faster and it should be a very interesting time for everyone JMHO

Rolly wrote:

HEA wrote:^^ I am not convinced of that. I think most people do see it as a weakness. Someone who has no control, someone who is messed up. For me it takes a lot of courage to get out of it... but the majority of people will not see it that way and consider it a mental weakness

Hopefully, by bringing attention to eating disorders more people will understand it better and recognize it as a medical condition  (like chemical dependency, depression.....and diabetes) and not as a weakness.

IA @Rolly - I don't think it's weakness at all. It's a serious medical condition that if anything good comes out by addressing it on the show, will help those who are suffering to be able to recognize they need help.

GuardianAngel wrote:

Rolly wrote:

HEA wrote:^^ I am not convinced of that. I think most people do see it as a weakness. Someone who has no control, someone who is messed up. For me it takes a lot of courage to get out of it... but the majority of people will not see it that way and consider it a mental weakness

Hopefully, by bringing attention to eating disorders more people will understand it better and recognize it as a medical condition  (like chemical dependency, depression.....and diabetes) and not as a weakness.

IA @Rolly - I don't think it's weakness at all. It's a serious medical condition that if anything good comes out by addressing it on the show, will help those who are suffering to be able to recognize they need help.

so many young girls and young adults are going thru this.
Image on mags are changing and we do accept curbs more but it is still very slow
Parents are generally very blind of what is going on.