Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - MTA - July 31 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* Discussion

lleyki wrote:IMO I have never seen this big deal about the season of firsts comment considering it is a season with the first African American lead.

All lot of things need explaining eg. Why Bryan was liking "next bachelor " comment's, Peter defending Rachel and liking comments about them, Bryan following amanda stanton, Bryan having the S13 in his bio while Peter doesn't

And by that token, if Peter is somehow Final 1, we need a LONG explanation for:

1. Why is Rachel wearing a watch she got as a matching pair with another man
2. Why is Rachel wearing a hat she purchased on a HTD with another man
3. Why were Rachel and Bryan clearly in the same house at some point during the same weekend
4. Why did Peter never seem to go be with his fiance on SHV

The list goes on and on. Vanessa liked a comment or two about being the next Bachelorette last season. What difference does it make if Bryan has being on the Bachelorette in his bio - he was on the season. Bryan followed Amanda and Peter liked a picture of Jen Saviano in a bikini and he's not even following her.

Add more questions to that list:
When Both of them were in LA, why did Peter go out with friends on Sunday night and not with Rachel? Why did Rachel watch Monday night's episode with friends and not with Peter?
Why would Rachel mention their hot tub scene cringe worthy and embarrassing for her family to watch, in two different interviews?

Nick was very vocal in defending Kaitlyn on sm but he's not her fiancé.

lleyki wrote:IMO I have never seen this big deal about the season of firsts comment considering it is a season with the first African American lead.

All lot of things need explaining eg. Why Bryan was liking "next bachelor " comment's, Peter defending Rachel and liking comments about them, Bryan following amanda stanton, Bryan having the S13 in his bio while Peter doesn't

And by that token, if Peter is somehow Final 1, we need a LONG explanation for:

1. Why is Rachel wearing a watch she got as a matching pair with another man
2. Why is Rachel wearing a hat she purchased on a HTD with another man
3. Why were Rachel and Bryan clearly in the same house at some point during the same weekend
4. Why did Peter never seem to go be with his fiance on SHV

The list goes on and on. Vanessa liked a comment or two about being the next Bachelorette last season. What difference does it make if Bryan has being on the Bachelorette in his bio - he was on the season. Bryan followed Amanda and Peter liked a picture of Jen Saviano in a bikini and he's not even following her.

You're good haha !! I like it. Never thought about it from a different perspective and i should have...thanks for opening up my eyes

Nillay wrote:

lleyki wrote:IMO I have never seen this big deal about the season of firsts comment considering it is a season with the first African American lead.

All lot of things need explaining eg. Why Bryan was liking "next bachelor " comment's, Peter defending Rachel and liking comments about them, Bryan following amanda stanton, Bryan having the S13 in his bio while Peter doesn't

And by that token, if Peter is somehow Final 1, we need a LONG explanation for:

1. Why is Rachel wearing a watch she got as a matching pair with another man
2. Why is Rachel wearing a hat she purchased on a HTD with another man
3. Why were Rachel and Bryan clearly in the same house at some point during the same weekend
4. Why did Peter never seem to go be with his fiance on SHV

The list goes on and on. Vanessa liked a comment or two about being the next Bachelorette last season. What difference does it make if Bryan has being on the Bachelorette in his bio - he was on the season. Bryan followed Amanda and Peter liked a picture of Jen Saviano in a bikini and he's not even following her.

You're good haha !! I like it. Never thought about it from a different perspective and i should have...thanks for opening up my eyes

I don't recall a f1 liking negative comments throughout about possible f2 often. Usually final1 is more lowkey.

kennykingpb2
I knew they'd hit it off.

Beautiful!

Whaboom's theatrics in full glory:
https://youtu.be/aP5g_wsKvfQ

Evan Bass‏  @ebassclinics
ALL I WANTED WAS A NICE QUIET NIGHT AFTER MOVING AND I GET A "SPONSORED" AD FROM WHABOO (intentionally misspelled) GUY

Wells Adams‏  @WellsAdams  10h
Remember when they cut my hot seat? Didn't see me Wahboohooing, did ya?

Evan Bass  @ebassclinics  10h
Gah, will you just be the bachelor please so I can be one of the guys giving you advice at the beginning of the season

Wells Adams‏  @WellsAdams  9h
I dont need to be the bachelor to get advice from you at the beginning of the season. How do u think I made it through paradise last season?

elan gale‏  @theyearofelan  9h
This whole thread is a f***ing nightmare

Source

Okay so I had some time to kill last night and watched most of MTA. Observations:

1. It was Lee against the Universe, I lost count of how many people just had to get their posturing in. Even Demario had the nerve to be self-righteous. Not excusing Lee's past behavior/comments but it was overkill IMO

2. Didn't feel sorry for Fred. His statement to Rachel was well a statement: something he typed up, read out and rehearsed. Yes she didn't give him the chance he felt he deserved but you can't negotiate other people's attraction to you. Well let me add that I did feel bad about one thing. Rachel was rude to call Fred by Frederick IMO. When he corrected her by saying, "You still can't call me Fred." Rachel replied "Frederick's your full name." I was taught that you call people by the name THEY prefer. It's the height of rudeness to do otherwise.

3. Rachel was in a mood:
a. The perpetual smiling while discussing her relationship/breakup with Dean seemed a little insensitive to me. If someone cares about you, even if you can't reciprocate their level of feelings, it should make you feel guilty/bothered that they're hurting IMO.
b. Telling Dean, "I'm sorry you feel that way" when he was falling in love before sending him home was unapologetic. (I'm about to go on a rant so please skip if its tldr.) That phrase is a personal pet peeve of mine.  You're either sorry or you're not. It's disingenuous to be sorry that the other person is upset (thereby implying that the offended party is overly sensitive, shortsighted etc). You apologize for what YOU did and I'll apologize for what I did.
c. She was bombastic at times. She'd raise her voice as if excited or jokey and it would fall kind of flat. For those who watched, she did it after the bloopers. Rach said, "the guys like the bloopers more than me."

Overall I do not like what I'm seeing. I'm getting the sense with the Dean and Fred/Frederick name situation that Rachel does not know how to apologize. However, there may be reasons for the MTA mood:
1. It may have just been an off night
2. She's tired, the journey's almost over, she's bombarded daily with negative feedback on a guy she loves so maybe she had her armor up, preparing for a Chad vs. JoJo-type moment on the MTA
3. I mean she's chill until she's not, maybe something happened to put her off her chill.
4. She made a comment on episode 5 that, "I get bored easily and Bryan does not bore me." I think we may have saw some of that boredom. Definitely in the blooper from the MTA where she yawned while a guy was trying to talk to her. She may just be 'over it all.'
5. Or maybe just maybe this is an aspect of her personality that's been edited out on previous show/tv appearances. I dunno.

kerriway wrote:Okay so I had some time to kill last night and watched most of MTA. Observations:

1. It was Lee against the Universe, I lost count of how many people just had to get their posturing in. Even Demario had the nerve to be self-righteous. Not excusing Lee's past behavior/comments but it was overkill IMO

2. Didn't feel sorry for Fred. His statement to Rachel was well a statement: something he typed up, read out and rehearsed. Yes she didn't give him the chance he felt he deserved but you can't negotiate other people's attraction to you. Well let me add one thing. I did feel bad about one thing. Rachel was rude to call Fred by Frederick IMO. When he corrected her by saying, "You still can't call me Fred." Rachel replied "Frederick's your full name." I was taught that you call people by the name THEY prefer. It's the height of rudeness to refer to someone

3. Rachel was in a mood:
a. The perpetual smiling while discussing her relationship/breakup with Dean seemed a little insensitive to me. If you care about someone, even if the feelings aren't reciprocated should make you feel guilty or bothered that you don't feel the same IMO.
b. Telling Dean, "I'm sorry you feel that way" about her telling him she was falling in love before sending him home was unapologetic. (I'm about to go on a rant so please skip if its tldr.) That phrase is a personal pet peeve of mine.  You're either sorry or you're not. It's disingenuous to be sorry that the other person is upset (thereby implying that the offended party is overly sensitive, shortsighted etc). You apologize for what YOU did and I'll apologize for what I did.
c. She was bombastic at times. She'd raise her voice as if excited or jokey and it would fall kind of flat. For those who watched, she did it after the bloopers. Rach said, "the guys like the bloopers more than me."

Overall I do not like what I'm seeing. I'm getting the sense with the Dean and Fred/Frederick name situation that Rachel does not know how to apologize. However, there may be reasons for the MTA mood:
1. It may have just been an off night
2. She's tired, the journey's almost over, she's bombarded daily with negative feedback on a guy she loves so maybe she had her armor up, preparing for a Chad vs. JoJo-type moment on the MTA
3. I mean she's chill until she's not, maybe something happened to put her off her chill.
4. She made a comment on episode 5 that, "I get bored easily and Bryan does not bore me." I think we may have saw some of that boredom. Definitely in the blooper from the MTA where she yawned while a guy was trying to talk to her. She may just be 'over it all.'
5. Or maybe just maybe this is an aspect of her personality that's been edited out on previous show/tv appearances. I dunno.  

I think I really get why Rachel is over it. This show has sucked the life out of her lead IMO by recruiting Lee to make the show all about race and promoting Peter incessantly to the detriment of the real F1. So little is shown about Rachel's men and relationships and what it turns out are a bunch of great guys that for many of them, it was like meeting them for the first time on MTA. If they tell me one more time about how awful a fine 6ft2 man with a great job, a PHD, a great business, staff and condo who has no, zero, nada bad press after 20 years of dating is - I will puke - so I can only imagine how she must feel as the woman who loves him.
Dean reduced Rachel and Bryan's entire loving relationship to her being so stupid, she must have made her decision based upon lust in an interview with Mario Lopez. Those are fighting words. All because he is more comfortable spooning Peter in pictures and wearing his clothes.
Then, Kenny was the tool they used to sabotage her season so, I don't care how many times he cries at the sight or, sound of his daughter, he had no respect for himself. He talked like trash and had zero focus on Rachel as anything other than a potential stepmom and role model with a paycheck. I'm soooo glad she told him she was disappointed. That was considerate.
And the language!!! My goodness was that really ABC during primetime? WTH was going on there?
DeMario? Really...that pathetic girl was his "side piece"/translation:whore?
Waboom? What? More waste of space?
Lee? Does anyone really think ABC had NO IDEA he was racist and would be a volatile addition to the most diverse cast, ever? They recruited him, he said.
And Frederic - I don't know him. She has known him her whole life and she wants nothing to do with him. Her right, her decision. I have no basis to question it. By the same token - I'm not judging her behavior. She looked beautiful and was a lot nicer than the situation warranted, IMO.

I didn't watch this season, but as I read the last couple of comments I'm nodding my head because the way this lead and her F1 have apparently been treated is exactly the same as the last few. It's gotten too pathetic.

It's always been BEEP BEEP BEEEEEEEP

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Some cast are more resiient than others imo than others.

I respect everyone's take and perceptions on what they think they saw in Rachel during MTA, and my opinion will surely be in the minority, but I'm going to give it anyway. Lol.

I didn't see someone diva-ish or smug or uppity or any of the other adjectives that have been bandied about, which is everyone's right, and I respect the vantage points.

IMO... What I saw was someone who's defense mechanisms and insecurities may read to some as off-putting.

Rachel's insecure and very afraid of rejection and criticism and being vulnerable and being nakedly exposed as far as her emotions go. ***IMO***She has told us that very clearly. She has shown us that very clearly. She does not like to let people see her vulnerable. At all.

She has also shown it throughout the season. Something as simple as a guy thinking too long on whether he'll accept a rose from her causes a comment from her, all clear tells of insecurity, an insecurity she's admitted she has. **IMO**

Compound that with what she's endured this season (whether it's part of the deal or what you signed up for)... The fault lines she's exposed due to the added racial component, on top of all of the regular stuff, being called monkey and horse routinely in social media comments when fans don't like who she keeps, having ABC dedicate part of her season to Lee and racial issue exploitation, being called stupid and only about sex if she picks certain people, having trusted guys who have proven to be petty and immature about who she chose,  having guys she let go go on media tours talking about how she's blinded, having to deal with a slew of things that the normal Bachelorette has to deal with and a ton more than the usual circumstances, as well...

All of that is a pretty potent cocktail for her coming across in a way that some may think is full of herself or whatever else, imo. Instead, from the moment she said the "branches are out" it was abundantly clear to me from my personal perspective that her guard was up and her defense mechanisms were in place.

She talks a good game a lot of the time, but if this season has proven anything, imo, is that she's so soft-hearted and fragile. She puts herself out there at great cost to herself emotionally. She's so sensitive. And these were guys that she'd allowed herself to be vulnerable with and some of them in their behaviors have no doubt hurt her in their behavior post-show and others she was afraid of how they felt about her and she doesn't want to be hated. She full stop said earlier in the season that she was "humbled to her core" for these guys.

Even her comment about the guys and the bloopers read as classically insecure to me as opposed to full of herself. It's interesting how we all read things so very differently, but I appreciate seeing the wide array of views.

I have so many sorority sisters who are ~strong, brilliant, and stunningly beautiful but come off a tad witchy or snotty or any number of things to some people when they get nervous and really, it's anything but that. Usually, it's way deeper and totally different and people misread them until they and unless they know them or they've taken the time to step back and think about it.  

Given how many people continue to gush about her sweetness (like people at her watch party this week), and given the videos of her that come from her signing every last thing for people and being sweet as pie with fans and kids (like behind the scenes at Extra a couple of weeks ago), and given the number of truly good character guys from her season, including Kenny, who was there, or Adam, who was there, who go out of their way to defend her even now...

I'm not prepared to drop any number of general labels on her-- especially not any labels that might describe her as a whole instead of in this moment in time. I'm definitely not getting entitled, or divaish, or any of it, and I'm not even of the belief that she was close to losing her chill. But I do think she was guarded and I do think her nerves manifest in a way, especially as a "strong" black female... She'll continue to get knocked and there will be much less tolerance for how her nerves manifest and way more judgment--if she's not serving Polyanna-- generally speaking, of course. Not assigning that to anyone's beliefs or comments in particular. But, yeah, while I'll allow for people to be human and grant them a lot of leeway in high pressure situations where the context is like such and I'd need to see way more under different circumstances to even begin... I do see how others can read it differently.