Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #5

ITA @reneem

Is it really true that Alexis said she didn't like Vanessa ? That's not right.
I never heard any bachelor contestant bash eachother like this except if there was an actual reason like Ashely I and caila Quinn

However, if non-verbal behavior is not neutral and is negative or positive, it's not behavior that is neutral or "ignoring or seeing right through you".
This is the behavior that drew the interaction from the other party.
Either way, IMO it's childish. People are in situations constantly where they have to interact with each other whether they like it or not and often initial interactions are misunderstood and over emphasized.
IMO it's always a good thing to try to build bridges rather than boundaries. If that does not work, you can still put your best foot forward.

The more I hear about Rachel's character post show the less I like her. Sorry but her attitude stinks. I just can't with people that act so irrational about everything and think they are ALWAYS right. Vanessa wanted her peace but Rachel didn't I guess. I don't care how much you dislike someone. Sometimes being civil and mature is way better than being a person who can't even talk things out. I guess it's the lawyer in her. It's her way and that's it. Vanessa's teaching skills will always reflect her character, IMO. It's too bad these two just didn't see eye to eye. JMO

Miss Ramos wrote:@ReneeM You are 100% right. You understand Rachel because you would act like her...The person I am..I would react like Vanessa because I hate having problems with anyone and I like fixing things. So nobody is right or wrong in that situation...!

From jump I said I didn't think either of them were wrong in the way the argument unfolded, but it feels like more importance is being placed on Vanessa's personality type as if Rachel's feelings are somehow less important. Why is it up to Rachel to cater to Vanessa's feelings? If Rachel's feelings are that she doesn't want to associate with V, from the other side, why couldn't V just leave it alone? (I'm not posing this question directly to anyone, it's just my train of thought).

@Kashathediva I think her not saying anything is her being neutral IMO. Watching the entire season and following her after, Rachel's feelings are always written on her face, the girl (woman) cannot hide how she feels, it's reflex. I'm the exact same way, even when I actively try (which sometimes she did, and sometimes she didn't), I always give myself away.

All JMO.

Catdwoman50 wrote:I'm saying this and will stop because I am reacting to hearsay. Please remove the characters from the story and just look at the situation. Someone asking someone to please stop excluding me and is rejected by someone who seems to have the power. How does that look? What if you see this among kids what would you tell them?  I'm done thanks for letting me rant.

I may be silly but reading the bolded sentence brought tears to my eyes. Heartbreaking... 

ReneeM wrote:

Miss Ramos wrote:@ReneeM You are 100% right. You understand Rachel because you would act like her...The person I am..I would react like Vanessa because I hate having problems with anyone and I like fixing things. So nobody is right or wrong in that situation...!

From jump I said I didn't think either of them were wrong in the way the argument unfolded, but it feels like more importance is being placed on Vanessa's personality type as if Rachel's feelings are somehow less important. Why is it up to Rachel to cater to Vanessa's feelings? If Rachel's feelings are that she doesn't want to associate with V, from the other side, why couldn't V just leave it alone? (I'm not posing this question directly to anyone, it's just my train of thought).

@Kashathediva I think her not saying anything is her being neutral IMO. Watching the entire season and following her after, Rachel's feelings are always written on her face, the girl (woman) cannot hide how she feels, it's reflex. I'm the exact same way, even when I actively try (which sometimes she did, and sometimes she didn't), I always give myself away.

All JMO.

I agree with you all the way.

ericbutterfly wrote:I just feel like Rachel is only getting a lot of heat because she has more friends and people naturally gravitate to the perceived underdog.(snipped)

I don't. Also I don't perceive Vanessa as an underdog, like Nick 1.0 was never an underdog for me ... I also don't judge people based on the number of their friends. Too little, too much, I don't know who defines the measurement ... and that's what I question first. Who is adjusting the scale ... what type of units are we talking about ... what is the scope ... and what is the context.

I think the season started with Vanessa receiving heat as "UFO" (unidentified fighting offender), and Rachel being supported by majority was perceived as an indication that Vanessa most probably was wrong or rightfully blamed for something she must have done wrong (my interpretation of the opinions) from then on rumors got their legs, Vanessa has become the one who talks behind people's back, she plays nice in girl's faces, but plays dirty behind their backs, she most probably instigated and was the reason for certain eliminations. That's the story of someone wanting to paint her the underdog - IMO.
I've always seen her as a front-runner, loud&vocal and "in your face" F1, who also happens to be similar to Nick 1.0 (big fan of that guy) ... and since history can be a great teacher ... I chose to give her the benefit of a doubt that so far hasn't disappointed me yet.

ReneeM wrote:

Miss Ramos wrote:@ReneeM You are 100% right. You understand Rachel because you would act like her...The person I am..I would react like Vanessa because I hate having problems with anyone and I like fixing things. So nobody is right or wrong in that situation...!

From jump I said I didn't think either of them were wrong in the way the argument unfolded, but it feels like more importance is being placed on Vanessa's personality type as if Rachel's feelings are somehow less important. Why is it up to Rachel to cater to Vanessa's feelings? If Rachel's feelings are that she doesn't want to associate with V, from the other side, why couldn't V just leave it alone? (I'm not posing this question directly to anyone, it's just my train of thought).

@Kashathediva I think her not saying anything is her being neutral IMO. Watching the entire season and following her after, Rachel's feelings are always written on her face, the girl (woman) cannot hide how she feels, it's reflex. I'm the exact same way, even when I actively try (which sometimes she did, and sometimes she didn't), I always give myself away.

All JMO.

@ReneeM Nobody said that Rachel's feelings were less important. Rachel and Vanessa are just 2 completely different persons. And they react differently to situations. It all depends of your personnality. Maybe Vanessa wanted to resolve the problem because that is the person she is. I'm the same. I hate confrontations and arguments. For God Sake...Even when somebody hurts me I try to fix things (sorry if I can't explain myself too well...My first language is french) Rachel didn't have to cater but I don't respect the fact that the show has been wrapped for 3 months and she is still holding a grudge. You don't have to talk to her but don't tell people on your instagram live that you don't like her. It's like she is bringing the drama again...But that is JMO

The initial ambiguity about this fight did no favours for anyone involved. That was my biggest issue with this entire drama. People speculated and made it seem so much worse than it actually was, which was two people not gelling together. One person preferred to keep their distance, while the other wanted to get to the root of it and possibly resolve it. No one's 100% right or wrong in this situation, because we all deal with conflict differently.

Vanessa snitching sucks, but how is that different from all the contestants who have snitched or even just talked to the lead about their problems in the house? That happens every season, but I don't think I've ever seen such an out of proportion reaction, IMO.

I think a huge reason why there seems to be this collective bad blood is because Rachel is so well-loved (through no fault of her own). I just don't think any retaliation is necessary or justifiable at this point, because it's not like Rachel and her squad/group of friends are being provoked. They can continue not liking her in private and among themselves, but I find it distasteful to allude publicly to their dislike of another person when that person has decided to back off and stay quiet. War is over, folks; pack it up and go home. I totally understand that Rachel has no desire to be friends with her; that's her prerogative and I respect her for sticking to her guns. I just don't think this continued animosity is worth anyone's time.

happygolucky wrote:

ericbutterfly wrote:I just feel like Rachel is only getting a lot of heat because she has more friends and people naturally gravitate to the perceived underdog.(snipped)

I don't. Also I don't perceive Vanessa as an underdog, like Nick 1.0 was never an underdog for me ... I also don't judge people based on the number of their friends. Too little, too much, I don't know who defines the measurement ... and that's what I question first. Who is adjusting the scale ... what type of units are we talking about ... what is the scope ... and what is the context.

I think the season started with Vanessa receiving heat as "UFO" (unidentified fighting offender), and Rachel being supported by majority was perceived as an indication that Vanessa most probably was wrong or rightfully blamed for something she must have done wrong (my interpretation of the opinions) from then on rumors got their legs, Vanessa has become the one who talks behind people's back, she plays nice in girl's faces, but plays dirty behind their backs, she most probably instigated and was the reason for certain eliminations. That's the story of someone wanting to paint her the underdog - IMO.
I've always seen her as a front-runner, loud&vocal and "in your face" F1, who also happens to be similar to Nick 1.0 (big fan of that guy) ... and since history can be a great teacher ... I chose to give her the benefit of a doubt that so far hasn't disappointed me yet.

Okay I see what you are saying. I like that Vanessa is loud and vocal as well and I feel like Vanessa has great emotional intelligence . I didn't say she was the underdog because I think she is two faced. I said time and time again I don't think Vanessa was in the wrong, and like I said Raven snitched on Corrine, Corrine snitched on Taylor, Christen snitched on Liz, none of those girls were wrong in my eyes. I am just simply saying she seems the underdog because she is more of a lone wolf and not with the squad which I admire, and she also seems to have the hardest time on the show with coming to grips with Nick caring for the other girls which will only make their relationship stronger IMO.

I just think since Rachel is the perceived leader of this squad and since seemingly most of the girls adore Rachel, that is being translated into "Everyone hates Vanessa" and I don't think that is the case, I think RS is blowing things out of proportion. I don't think the girls adoration for Rachel equals them despising Vanessa.

At the end of the day I like both women. I want Vanessa and Nick to last and I want Rachel to find love as the ette.

IMO it's immature to roll your eyes etc at someone, but then not engage with them and give them an explanation when they approach you about your behaviour. If you don't want to engage with them, then keep your eye rolls and 'we didnt like her' cacklings to yourself as well. You can't IMO have it both ways. You act passive aggressive, you're looking for reaction, IMO.