Survivor 2017 - Game Changers- Season 34 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

peggy0221 wrote:I watched Ozzy's ponderosa, and yea, he knew players like him can't win because he's there to enjoy the game, not to win. I think if Ozzy was in Season 1 or 2, he would have won already. It was when survival skills are more important than backstabbing skills. I don't know, this probably is the reason why I never liked a winner like Cochran.

I'm sad that players like Ozzy, Malcolm, or even Joe could never win in nowadays survivor. Maybe they should have a season of all alpha and let them battle it out.

See, as much as I like Ozzy I never thought he was a good player. Yes, he is very good at challenges and providing food and was fun to watch, but he has no strategic game play. You can win without being a physical player...see Cochran and Sandra...but, you need strategy to overcome that deficiency. No matter how great you are physically, you still need strategy. IMO if you don't have strategy, you are not going to win this game and hence why for my, strategy will always be the most important factor in this game. The best players have a mix of the physical, social and strategic, but I personally love watching someone strategize to overcome their lack of physical prowess. I get bored watching someone just power through everyone to keep winning immunity after immunity.

I love the idea of just having a season of alphas trying to battle each other. Producers get on that!

I just love this show.

Me too. Amazing that after all these seasons, I still look so forward to it.

Sprite wrote:

peggy0221 wrote:I watched Ozzy's ponderosa, and yea, he knew players like him can't win because he's there to enjoy the game, not to win. I think if Ozzy was in Season 1 or 2, he would have won already. It was when survival skills are more important than backstabbing skills. I don't know, this probably is the reason why I never liked a winner like Cochran.

I'm sad that players like Ozzy, Malcolm, or even Joe could never win in nowadays survivor. Maybe they should have a season of all alpha and let them battle it out.

See, as much as I like Ozzy I never thought he was a good player. Yes, he is very good at challenges and providing food and was fun to watch, but he has no strategic game play. You can win without being a physical player...see Cochran and Sandra...but, you need strategy to overcome that deficiency. No matter how great you are physically, you still need strategy. IMO if you don't have strategy, you are not going to win this game and hence why for my, strategy will always be the most important factor in this game. The best players have a mix of the physical, social and strategic, but I personally love watching someone strategize to overcome their lack of physical prowess. I get bored watching someone just power through everyone to keep winning immunity after immunity.

I love the idea of just having a season of alphas trying to battle each other. Producers get on that!

Totally agree with this - with the exception of a season of alpha meatheads battling it out. No thanks. I LOVE watching the strategy. That is what makes this show fun. I like Ozzy. He's great at actual surviving, he's untouchable in challenges. He's well liked enough. But he suuuuuucks at the "outwit" part. And that, to me, is the most important part. I'd rather see a Cochran, a Parvati, a Cirie, an Aubry. People actually maneuvering and  playing the game. That's fun for me. That's why I keep coming back. If this show had never evolved and was still about who caught the most fish to provide at camp, or who won the most challenges, well... yawn. I probably would have peaced out years ago. 

As for returnee seasons, I want a season of just winners. Bring them all (or most) of them back! That would be fun.

@sosleepy Just because they are alpha, doesn't mean they are meatheads. What I mean by alpha is people who are really good at challenges and hence why they are such a threat and get voted out...typically just before or just after merge because they don't want them to have a run of immunity. Someone like Joe or Malcolm aren't meatheads to me. They do have strategy, they just never really get to showcase it because they get voted out. I would enjoy them around others like them because since they would all be good at challenges, to win they would need to really bring up their strategic game.

It would also be interesting because I would be curious to see which women would fall in that category. Most of the people I could picture are male.

I will always love Ozzy. Very sad to see him go... He needed to play more strategically for sure... he was blindsided, maybe would've been more strategic in the next couple of episodes. Who knows?
I agree with others here. If he had been on one of the first few seasons of the show, he definitely would've won. Those days were more real and geared to award the people who truly knew how to survive in those environments. I'd like to pinpoint when did this all changed? With Pavarti? Before?
I also dislike Debbie immensely!! Sierra is a good second.
I still like Zeke, but as I commented a few posts back, he gets way too overwhelmed & starts playing both sides, and not in a good way. This was, and will be his demise.
I enjoy the strategic mind of Cerie... love Troyzan also... Aubrey is great to me as well! Sarah is playing a very good mental game...
This show is the best no matter what. With Ozzy & Malcolm gone, I have no idea who I am rooting for anymore. Michaela needs to put on her strong & confident girl hat back again! IMO

Sprite wrote:@sosleepy Just because they are alpha, doesn't mean they are meatheads. What I mean by alpha is people who are really good at challenges and hence why they are such a threat and get voted out...typically just before or just after merge because they don't want them to have a run of immunity. Someone like Joe or Malcolm aren't meatheads to me. They do have strategy, they just never really get to showcase it because they get voted out. I would enjoy them around others like them because since they would all be good at challenges, to win they would need to really bring up their strategic game.

It would also be interesting because I would be curious to see which women would fall in that category. Most of the people I could picture are male.

Hmm... Stephanie Lagrossa (sp?) immediately comes to mind. Kim Spradlin - winner of One World was also a challenge beast (and sooooo good at the game in all areas - why haven't they brought her back?). Michaela playing now is very physical. I'm sure there are more.

I get what you are saying - but there have been many alpha males who've managed to make it far and win. Boston Rob is the archetype. Tony most certainly. JT. Kim. Jeremy. Tyson to some extent. I could go on. I think this type (so long as they have some game, which I strongly argue Ozzy does not) definitely has the ability to win, and has many times over.

sosleepy wrote:

Sprite wrote:@sosleepy Just because they are alpha, doesn't mean they are meatheads. What I mean by alpha is people who are really good at challenges and hence why they are such a threat and get voted out...typically just before or just after merge because they don't want them to have a run of immunity. Someone like Joe or Malcolm aren't meatheads to me. They do have strategy, they just never really get to showcase it because they get voted out. I would enjoy them around others like them because since they would all be good at challenges, to win they would need to really bring up their strategic game.

It would also be interesting because I would be curious to see which women would fall in that category. Most of the people I could picture are male.

Hmm... Stephanie Lagrossa (sp?) immediately comes to mind. Kim Spradlin - winner of One World was also a challenge beast (and sooooo good at the game in all areas - why haven't they brought her back?). Michaela playing now is very physical. I'm sure there are more.

I get what you are saying - but there have been many alpha males who've managed to make it far and win. Boston Rob is the archetype. Tony most certainly. JT. Kim. Jeremy. Tyson to some extent. I could go on. I think this type (so long as they have some game, which I strongly argue Ozzy does not) definitely has the ability to win, and has many times over.

Oh, I agree that many alpha males have won, my point was that those who did were a well rounded package...physical, social and strategic. Ozzy isn't strategic. He even admits he isn't. Malcolm on the other hand can be. I think that is why he was voted out before Ozzy.

Yes, Stephanie and Kim were the two women that came to mind, although I don't know how strategic Stephanie was. Michaela would fit the criteria better I think.

Sprite wrote:

sosleepy wrote:

Sprite wrote:@sosleepy Just because they are alpha, doesn't mean they are meatheads. What I mean by alpha is people who are really good at challenges and hence why they are such a threat and get voted out...typically just before or just after merge because they don't want them to have a run of immunity. Someone like Joe or Malcolm aren't meatheads to me. They do have strategy, they just never really get to showcase it because they get voted out. I would enjoy them around others like them because since they would all be good at challenges, to win they would need to really bring up their strategic game.

It would also be interesting because I would be curious to see which women would fall in that category. Most of the people I could picture are male.

Hmm... Stephanie Lagrossa (sp?) immediately comes to mind. Kim Spradlin - winner of One World was also a challenge beast (and sooooo good at the game in all areas - why haven't they brought her back?). Michaela playing now is very physical. I'm sure there are more.

I get what you are saying - but there have been many alpha males who've managed to make it far and win. Boston Rob is the archetype. Tony most certainly. JT. Kim. Jeremy. Tyson to some extent. I could go on. I think this type (so long as they have some game, which I strongly argue Ozzy does not) definitely has the ability to win, and has many times over.

Oh, I agree that many alpha males have won, my point was that those who did were a well rounded package...physical, social and strategic. Ozzy isn't strategic. He even admits he isn't. Malcolm on the other hand can be. I think that is why he was voted out before Ozzy.

Yes, Stephanie and Kim were the two women that came to mind, although I don't know how strategic Stephanie was. Michaela would fit the criteria better I think.

Ok it took me a while to get there but I think we pretty much basically agree.  Haha sorry.

@sosleepy

sosleepy wrote:I get what you are saying - but there have been many alpha males who've managed to make it far and win. Boston Rob is the archetype. Tony most certainly. JT. Kim. Jeremy. Tyson to some extent. I could go on. I think this type (so long as they have some game, which I strongly argue Ozzy does not) definitely has the ability to win, and has many times over.

Looking back on JT... I rewatched his season that he won. He did appear to have everything under control but did he really? He has really stunk it up in the other 2 times he played. I'm now thinking that it was all because of Fishbach that he got to the end and he won because he was more likable than Fishbach. I was actually rooting for Taj Johnson-George to take the win that season.

My favorite seasons are still Redemption Island (Rob's win) and Cook Islands (Yul and Ozzy). And, to think I really disliked Rob in his 1st season!

havadrpepper wrote:

sosleepy wrote:I get what you are saying - but there have been many alpha males who've managed to make it far and win. Boston Rob is the archetype. Tony most certainly. JT. Kim. Jeremy. Tyson to some extent. I could go on. I think this type (so long as they have some game, which I strongly argue Ozzy does not) definitely has the ability to win, and has many times over.

Looking back on JT... I rewatched his season that he won.  He did appear to have everything under control but did he really?  He has really stunk it up in the other 2 times he played. I'm now thinking that it was all because of Fishbach that he got to the end and he won because he was more likable than Fishbach.  I was actually rooting for Taj Johnson-George to take the win that season.

My favorite seasons are still Redemption Island (Rob's win) and Cook Islands (Yul and Ozzy).  And, to think I really disliked Rob in his 1st season!

JT has Fishbach to thank for his win. He has no strategy...just like Ozzy. Those are a couple of my favourite seasons...along with All Stars when Rob and Amber met. It kind of sucked that Amber won and not Rob, but otherwise I really enjoyed it and the best reunion show with the proposal.