Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 7 Feb 13 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

So Rachel and Vanessa butted heads. Not surprising. Also no surprise that Raven was closer to Rachel since they were roommates. It doesn't mean Vanessa was out of her element or unfriendly or whatever it is implied by fans of the 'squad.' I'm guessing they've put it behind them and it would be nice if their fans could too.

How do we know she always gets constant affirmation and validation back in Montreal and not also some scolding? How is she the only one being taken away from her comfort zone??

We've seen so little of Vanessa on tv that I don't know how it's so easy to read her portrayal on this show let alone with bad intentions. She's shown nothing but positive vibes post show, can't say the same for some of the other girls. *IMO* It's how these Bachelor folks act outside the show, that is the REAL version of themselves, imo. JMO

@northernviewer hehehe something must be lost in translation because if you thought I disagree with the fact that it's true for everyone - I really don't. I completely agree with you and I did state in my comment above that any person would be dealing with such a situation. my statement about V finding herself out of her comfort zone was my attempt to try to understand why she might have rubbed some people the wrong way or why she might have clashed with some people with some of her negative attributes. I gave examples of negative attributes I observed and explained why/how she pressed my pet peeve buttons in an attempt to explain how she might have done the same with the girls.

Obviously Vanessa is very human and other people might rub ppl the wrong way just as she did in the house (and I would be shocked if they didn't!!). And this is based on zero factual information about the actual conflicts that took place. for this exact reason, I see no reason to sweep the possibility that she might have clashed with ppl under the rug or to ignore the potential hints that she might have rubbed some ppl the wrong way

^^^
Something Nick was challenged by his first go around regarding relationships.  He was close to Marquel and Jj O'Brien.
I'm not understanding the emphasis on friendships, or not, during what equates to an extended summer camp environment with the main activity being to date the same guy.
I'm not understanding how that brief stint in the life of any of the girls is more character defining than the lives they left and then return too. What's so special about this group that makes being their friend, or not, so important?
Call me clueless    because IMO the lead can go on a show and find no one and from that perspective a cast member can go on the show and relate to none of the other cast... or only 1...or 2.
3 months in the life of a 29 year old in a social vacuum is a pittance. What transpires over 29 years of life is much more telling IMO.

Yep.

Even the very little we've seen, Vanessa on the show can be very obnoxious *IMO*, Vanessa on the show can be entitled. *IMO*. She cares very much about what people think IMO, (which is why the FEW mean comments, and I mean few in comparison to the love she gets, bother her and led her to like that mean comment about Danielle L) **IMO**. and that's the real reason she followed Rachel on IG, **IMO** not to extend an olive branch, but because she didn't know how she would be portrayed on the show, she tried to be fake for SM, but Rachel's pretty much ignored her entire existence so that didn't work out for her. ***IMO*** I think she very gladly would have faked it if Rachel was on board. I don't Rachel or Vanessa will ever address it but I don't think the other girls have put it behind them at all, I think they're playing nice, and we'll see how long that lasts. JMO.

I don't think it matters nor should it to Nick, who the other girls like, when it comes to choosing at the end. It does matter to me as a viewer when I decide which cast members I like.

All JMO.

^So now the reason Vanessa followed Rachel was because she was scared of her portrayal on the show? LOL I think people are reading too much into what Vanessa has done or doesn't do. I'm still not understanding where it says that a simple follow has so many other intentions. To me Vanessa is just taking the high road. "When they go low we go high". JMO

I find it so amaziing that we're all watching the same show and see things so differently...conclusion....its all point of view ...not point in fact

northernviewer wrote:I find it so amaziing that we're all watching the same show and see things so differently...conclusion....its all point of view ...not point in fact

indeed...what I find confounding and frustrating about this season is that we're getting only glimpses even when we are 7 episodes in which makes a lot of the discussions very much based on speculation. what some people interpret as positive/negative is based on extremely limited information and to be completely honest, it's making this season highly unenjoyable for me. Everything is based on impressions and clues and hints which could be moot if we had full and nuanced information. I find myself picking up very few details from someone's SM posts, appearances on TV and posts by other ppl on the show and filling in the blanks with some of my own interpretation -- I imagine many of us are being forced to fill in the blanks (whether positive or negative) because of this hollow season.

I find this problem to be the case for the whole storyline this season or has it progressively been more and more of the seasons becoming like this -- we're not given anything wholly substantial when it comes to the characters/individuals or the story this season. It feels like a VERY EMPTY season -- like it has zero depth. Maybe part of the success of this show has become it's ability to let people "TALK" into it.... they give us a very skeleton-like version of the season then everyone goes crazy filling in the details and talking about it. I really have no idea why I watch this show anymore.    :shocked!:      

@emusha i totally agree...its a terrible edit this season...worse than most years IMO if spoilers are true and i see Nick/Vanessa FRC twirl ...Ill be satisfied in the end but on a whole, im not liking this season...and it has nothing to do with the lead or contestants personally, its about the crappy, disjointed edit...period!

The damnation of Vanessa over her facial expressions and whatnot is super weird. *IMO* I hope the same people that think she's a terrible person are as critical of IMO worse behviours such as Raven's story of actual physical assault and Corinne's reference to Taylor as a bitch repeatedly. Did Vanessa say something bad about Danielle L? Yes she did and so did Whitney. Did Vanessa look exasperated at some of the other girls? Yes. Is she presenting herself as beyond reproach? No.

You don't have to like everybody in the world and especially in an intense environment but I'm not sure I can understand veiled criticism when it's so hypocritical. **IMO** Furthermore blogger boy set up Vanessa very poorly initially and we can see that his source may be a person's from camp Raven. *IMO* I think Raven's clique/squad is a bit embarrassing - honestly high school is over. After JoJo season I think it's clear that the majority isn't always correct...

All of the above is IMO.

I was very critical of Raven's story and the overwhelmingly positive reaction to it. While Raven's not my favourite, where's all this about it being her squad coming from? As far as I know, she's not had a thing to say.

Sorry I find the fight between Vanessa and Rachel somewhat ridiculous. Have we seen Vanessa bad mouth Rachel on the show? Other than the questionable "like" on sm, has Vanessa thrown any shades to anyone ? We have no facts, just speculations.  The only person that mentioned the fight is RS (I don't count Whitney since she's not even in Bimini). He said he guessed it happened during GD in Bimini. If he was right, only Vanessa, Rachel and Dani M were present, so how does that translate to everyone was on Rachel's side since they were not there? Where does the "Vanessa talked something bad, allegedly, behind Rachel's  back" come from? I guess it BS RS again? I don't disagree there maybe some disagreement between the contestants, but BS RS made a mountain out of the mole hill, IMO. I respect Rachel and Vanessa both not talk about it at all, to me, that shows maturity. I also think Vanessa did the right thing of following and even congratulating Rachel on sm.  Vanessa didn't engage much on Rachel's sm, but Rachel didn't even follow her. Depending whose side you are on, people will have different interpretations. I want to give both benefits of doubt and don't think it's a big deal, because I like both of them.
All JMO.
An interesting observation: I read the non spoiler side, and I don't recall anyone calling Vanessa entitled/whiney.