Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 7 Feb 13 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Bee wrote:I couldn't disagree more. We have been told of other instances of Vanessa not having nice things to say about other girls that were also edited out e.g. her and Taylor supposedly warning Nick that Danielle L was fake etc. Also her crying and questioning Nick's "stupid decisions" which to me may come across entitled if she expects him to just do what she thinks he should rather than letting him do what he thinks is best for him and letting him follow his instincts. If they were only trying to protect Rachel then why leave that out? (snipped)

... i'd at least be honest enough to recognise they are probably protecting both if not more Vanessa IMO

Point taken: we have been told ... but nobody actually has seen what exactly was said or how (when, to who,...) ... and I'm not saying that "something didn't happen" ... but even the same "facts" can make different stories, depending how much is revealed, to who and how ... storytelling is an art, IMO ... and omission wins many cases (even the wrongdoings) ... so, whatever I've been told ... especially from RS, I don't take for the truth.

On the "left out scenes" ... funnily how we saw them, didn't we? ... Yes, they were in the preview and not part of the actual episode ... but still ... images make impressions just the same ... After all 30 sec TV commercial do make certain increase in sale, otherwise they would be useless and waste of money.

And IMO, "they" aren't protecting anyone ... not Rachel, not Vanessa ... they are just telling the story, the one they want to tell (yes, I believe they do have an agenda) ... the one that suits better maybe for the future, but also the present ... by "manipulating" viewers into believing in what is seen and heard ... but at the same time everyone has a freedom to decide how much they "buy" ...
and I just don't buy anything TPTB sells for the face value ... ever.

Kashathediva wrote:@Lara That's basically what 7I mean...they all wanted the prize, the hamburger. I don't even think in the long run the majority of F1 wants the lead. It easily turns into who won and where each finished. Even the media word it so.

Some might say "the PICKLE".

Maya wrote:I honestly think that them not showing the fight and what happened is only helping Rachel and not Vanessa. Everyone on SM keeps saying how the conflict isn't shown because V is F1 and they have to cover how bitchy she is. But no one knows what side we all would be after watching what really happend.

Vanessa's crying scene with Dan M and her hurt comment about Nick's stupid decisions were left out. Now I wonder if we didn't see those because they were connected to her fight with Rachel. If they weren't showing the fight, they couldn't show the other. The connection could be that Nick knew about the fight and that V was on the outside of the "clique" with only Dan M on her side, but then he up and sends Dan M home.

How painful for V would that one be? And since it involved explaining that V was estranged from the other girls, they just didn't show it. Pure speculation, but it kind of pulls together the facts as we know them, I think.

I took a step back from Bach Nation after the Australian Bach 3. I was going in wrong direction about that season (which I have yet too see the final 2 episodes, thus I haven't written in their thread for so long). There was a debate about who of the "frontrunners" would won ... and I made a mistake excluding one girl, because her edit wasn't "flattering" ...
Not that she'd done anything wrong ... just the scenes the producers chose to show us weren't making her a "likeable" character ... and the funny part was that she was well liked among the girls in the house, girls found her sweet and caring ... and yet what the show showed us was "irritating" the viewers (she was very "open", in her ITMs and her facial expressions)...
Aren't they supposed to make us "love" the F1? Well, I guess not. It's all about making the "waves" ... of emotions ... trigger them in people to get engaged ... in discussion, in opposite teams, in rivalry ... get them interested, invested, stand for one or the other cast ... watch, engage SM and "buy" (even if it's just "more wine"), IMO. So, the lesson I've learned from that is ... nobody is "safe" in BN, nobody is "protected" ... they are just USED. - all JMO

I just watched the funny or die video. IMO the instigators regarding the argument were Whitney who blatantly brought it up and conveniently said earlier that Rachel was her best friend, Danielle who asked Where's Vanessa and Jasmine chiming in to a lesser degree. Clearly these gals know what happened via hearsay since none of them were present in Bimini. So bringing it up is being fake IMO and done to stir up negativity. My take is they are a petty jealous bunch with the exception of Taylor who actually watched the episode and interacted with the guys and came across nicely and Dominque who was rarely seen on camera. Danielle literally looked at her phone and send messages for the majority of the 2 hour podcast...except when she mentioned that Nick wanted her to be the F1 then sent her home. Watching Danielle on this podcast showed me why Nick lost interest. Same with Whitney who claimed Nick had a boner with her. Apparently it didn't mean anything because he sent her home. Whitney told Nick that Danielle was fake but weirdly now they are pals united against Vanessa.    I found it interesting that Whitney and Jasmine mentioned they are now living in LA. Basically every gal there except Taylor lives in LA. IMO... I am going to make the assumption that they are gearing up for event attending and a shilling career. And hoping to be cast on BIP.
All JMO

happygolucky wrote:

Bee wrote:I couldn't disagree more. We have been told of other instances of Vanessa not having nice things to say about other girls that were also edited out e.g. her and Taylor supposedly warning Nick that Danielle L was fake etc. Also her crying and questioning Nick's "stupid decisions" which to me may come across entitled if she expects him to just do what she thinks he should rather than letting him do what he thinks is best for him and letting him follow his instincts. If they were only trying to protect Rachel then why leave that out? (snipped)

... i'd at least be honest enough to recognise they are probably protecting both if not more Vanessa IMO

Point taken: we have been told ... but nobody actually has seen what exactly was said or how (when, to who,...) ... and I'm not saying that "something didn't happen" ... but even the same "facts" can make different stories, depending how much is revealed, to who and how ... storytelling is an art, IMO ... and omission wins many cases (even the wrongdoings) ... so, whatever I've been told ... especially from RS, I don't take for the truth.

On the "left out scenes" ... funnily how we saw them, didn't we? ... Yes, they were in the preview and not part of the actual episode ... but still ... images make impressions just the same ... After all 30 sec TV commercial do make certain increase in sale, otherwise they would be useless and waste of money.

And IMO, "they" aren't protecting anyone ... not Rachel, not Vanessa ... they are just telling the story, the one they want to tell (yes, I believe they do have an agenda) ... the one that suits better maybe for the future, but also the present ... by "manipulating" viewers into believing in what is seen and heard ... but at the same time everyone has a freedom to decide how much they "buy" ...


and I just don't buy anything TPTB sells for the face value ... ever.

**edited**. Maybe we just see both sides and have an understanding of where they are both coming from with no bad guys.

I also think in regards to TPTB using the contestants yes that is correct but then thats exactly why i don't agree that they don't protect anyone. if they didn't protect anyone to sell a certain story or image then why leave out drama and arguments which are usually major talking points and ratings grabber if they have it? There have been two episodes so far this season that have had really confusing edits because they have left out these supposed arguments or bitching or whatever happened and we were just left with a really boring and confusing narrative. **IMO** If they weren't trying to protect anyone be it Vanessa or Rachel i don't see why they wouldn't have left in those events and had a more cohesive possibly interesting storyline.

I don't dislike either Vanessa or Rachel I'm just looking at things from what we have gleaned from the girls and what seems to be the two different friendship groups because Taylor doesn't seem to have an issue with Rachel and wasn't Kristina out with Vanessa in Nashville? **edited**

Danielle literally looked at her phone and send messages for the majority of the 2 hour podcast...except when she mentioned that Nick wanted her to be the F1 then sent her home.

Same with Whitney who claimed Nick had a boner with her.

Seems to me that both Whitney and Danielle don't realize that just because a guy is attracted to you and would have sex with you, does not mean he's in love with you and sees himself spending the rest of his life with you or even having a relationship with you.

Okay Whitney - Nick had a boner with you. So, it means he's a guy. Hell some men get boners from a strong wind. What does she think that proves exactly? Frankly these comments just make me embarrassed for both of these people. Fact is if Nick wanted to pick either of them, he would have. If he wanted to have sex with them so badly, he would have tried to. Instead he eliminated them both. Get over it.

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This is exactly why, while overall I think Nick had quality women. Career focused, intelligent, strong. They are still catty and I think he actually had *more* drama and cliquishness within his cast then most.

Compared to Ben's girls who are by and large painted as immature and not quality. I somewhat disagree. I agree that overall I prefer the caliber of Nick's girls. But I do think (outside of early Olivia bullying and manufactured drama), those girls all mostly got along and have and continue to be supportive of one and other.

@lleyki thank you for a good laugh and a great post!

What if whatever they chose "not to show" about the supposed "fight" wouldn't make any of the girls "look good"? Maybe the "fight" wouldn't benefit anyone, not even the show (it wouldn't make the episode any better). Did they really choose not to show it to protect Vanessa or Rachel? Or do they choose only to show things that make the episode entertaining (whatever their professional mind finds it to be)?
It's my opinion, that if they really "cared to protect" their "beloved cast" the show would take another approach on many "situations" and post-filming media coverage, but it seems to me that they are very pleased when the media reports crazy stories (about the contestants, F1 or the lead) ... crazier, the better ... adding fuel to fire, a lot of "sources" of those stories come from the people involved with the show.

I don't remember which interview it was, but just as airing started Nick said that he didn't chose women because they were the most liked in the house.  At the time, many viewers thought he was referring to Corinne.  But I think at the time he was referring to Vanessa because he didn't yet know how much of her disagreements with the other women they would show.  

I think they chose to keep the disagreements out of the edit because it would tarnish Rachel's Bachelorette role to reveal their fight.  Without that disagreement there was really no reason to bring up any of the other minor things Vanessa said about the other contestants (if they truly were) because it doesn't serve to make Vanessa the villian as the F1 unless they had fully committed to that from the beginning.  It would just leave viewers confused and unsure which woman to root for at the end.