Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 6 Feb 6 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I didn't see anything different in that clip than what we see during mid-season ever so often where contestants breakdown and feel like their relationship might have stalled because they are not getting any time.

IMO Danielle M nailed it when she said in that clip that "Because in this whole environment, it is all about how much time you have. And when you don't get that time and that time is taken from you, its like..there goes your shot". IMO I would not be supportive of Vanessa and Danielle M crying if this was week 2 or week 3 and there were 10-15 women on these competitive group dates. But when it's down to 6 ppl on a grp date where 3 are going to get extra time (and this is not the 10-15 min cocktail party, this is half a day I am talking about), I can see why they would be frustrated that their relationship might stall without that time while others progress.

Personally, I don't see Vanessa being entitled at all. I don't even see Vanessa, Danielle M and Jasmine crying as a manipulative tactic. There was no saying that Nick would keep them if they cried. I just see 3 frustrated woman who are going to miss on half a day with the lead when they are 1 week away from HTD.

All JMO.

emusha wrote:to be fair I really don't see Nick 1.0 as being a whiny, entitled, brat. he acted salty and entitled during that one date then he regretted it deeply and reverted immediately after apologizing with a full on poem but that date was the only one he acted entitled. he never thought he was a special snowflake esp and it was evident since he worked for it every single moment.

Crying because you're struggling with the process is one thing -- whining and dramatics saying "it's soo annoying I have to keep competing for attention" is another. Who in this franchise behaved this way ?

Imagine someone coming to nick and telling him I'm having a really hard time with this because x, y, z - I'm feeling jealous or that I don't get time with you etc. -- that is different from the whiny "I don't want to compete and it's soo annoying!!". Of course the producers want this .....the fact that they prodded to get reactions doesn't mean that someone's behavior needs to be completely dismissed as insignificant/meaningless.

I think everyone that has done this show has felt this way IMO whether it was shown or not it's the nature of the show to get frustrated at some point of competing for the leads attention. JMO

When did the other scene (which I still don't think will be shown) of Vanessa and Danielle M crying in the hotel room take place again? Thanks!

IMO, V was just expressing how she was feeling at that particular moment, which was genuinely tired of competing for the attention of someone she's developing feelings for. Just because yes, that's the premise of the show, doesn't mean she's not allowed to be frustrated by it. IMO It would be much less interesting for us as viewers if everyone just went along with TB process happily and with no complaints. I'm not saying it isn't somewhat eye-roll worthy from where we're standing- it totally is. I just don't find it to be entitled. Silly, given the entire premise of the show she's appearing on, yes.

That being said, I get why it bugged the girls on the winning team. I would've felt the same way. I think both are perfectly human reactions to this bizarre social experiment. Kind of reminds me of Ben's season on the pigs date in the Bahamas. It just started to feel weird and frustrating for a lot of the girls at that point.

JMO as always I love reading everyone's different interpretations of what goes on.

mprssdbyu wrote:

see2love wrote:

sdmom wrote:

Exactly! I don't know how I would have acted if I were in their situation. I have said a few things that I totally regret afterwards, and I am not competing against other girls for the same guy, with no outside contacts and no phone, no wifi.....

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All the contestants have to be excused then right? The Shawn B, Tierra, Nick 1.0, Corrine, Ashley I.

I happened to love Nick 1.0. I've really only totally disliked 3 people on this show off the top of my head. Granted I've only watched certain seasons and your list did not include any of those three. I won't get into who it was because that's a discussion for three different individual threads. Getting so off topic would lead to a huge headache for the mods.

I like Nick 1.0, never comment on Tierra or Ashley, minimum on Corinne. I actually like Shawn B more after the show, even though I can't stand his SO.

I didn't see anything different in that clip than what we see during mid-season ever so often where contestants breakdown and feel like their relationship might have stalled because they are not getting any time.

Again, Jubilee summed it up well on the WTA - the "real/not real" situation. As she said, the feelings are definitely real but the atmosphere, situation, etc. isn't and yes some are total bosses and navigate it unscathed and some, even the sanest outside the show, get broken at some point.

to be fair I really don't see Nick 1.0 as being a whiny, entitled, brat. he acted salty and entitled during that one date then he regretted it deeply and reverted immediately after apologizing with a full on poem but that date was the only one he acted entitled. he never thought he was a special snowflake esp and it was evident since he worked for it every single moment.

Now I preface this by saying I have always liked Nick and liked him when he was getting raked by many during Andi's season. And I agree that he didn't see himself as a special snowflake (but personally I haven't seen that from Vanessa either IMO) but I remember his time on Andi's season differently than the quoted comment.

I don't remember Nick regretting his behavior deeply and apologizing with a poem. I remember when Andi asked him how he liked the day, he tried to b.s. that it was fine and she called him on it and told him he was acting salty. Then the bigger issue that night was Cody getting upset at him and Andi wanting to know what happened, while Nick basically shrugged the whole thing off because he didn't think Cody or the drama was worth his time (and I agreed with him). The poem reading was weirdly edited into the scene because it seemed to come out of nowhere.

And beyond that there was plenty of talk from the other guys about how obnoxious Nick was with his over confidence. Then there was the taking Andi away first at the cocktail party when he already had a rose, of course sneaking to her room to see her, etc. Nick, during both his seasons, was aggressively single-minded and unapologetic in his pursuit of the lead. And for the record, again, I had no issues with him or that. But it was certainly in the Bachelor Nation fanbook of "how things should be done" not acceptable and suddenly he was a villain.

Of course he didn't cry at a group date, most guys don't but being pouty, irritated and uncooperative was not a great look either and I say all this while maintaining that it never made me not like him. It really is subjective because I didn't hear entitled or whiny in Vanessa's tone for being shocked she didn't get the FIR and not feeling like she wanted to stay on the show while Nick was acting like a drunk fratboy jumping around and grinding in a pink princess bouncy castle house. And in my opinion, her decision to talk to him directly and address her feelings was also not whiny or aggressive.

I am not making excuses for Vanessa because I can't view the volleyball link, but I mentioned much earlier in the season when we first heard her speak, that she definitely speaks like a French Canadian Italian. What I mean by that, IMO they are very straightforward, even to a point of being dramatic in their speech. Also the type of work she is involved in, the way she expresses her words are very direct and clear and I would think she needs to over emphasize. Think Celine Dion.

I can say all that because I live in a French Canadian environment, deal with many French Canadians and my favourite team is French Canadian. IMO They all speak in a very expressive manner and they are masters at facial expressions.

Some would take offense but IMO it's just the culture. Similar to someone with a very heavy Southern drawl. Some IMO like it some don't.

@GuardianAngel Can I add Italian to that? I've never met an Italian who wasn't colorfully feisty!! Not once.

I don't clearly remember the exact scenario it's been so long @lleyki but I do believe Nick said he had a hard time sleeping that day because he thought he'd messed up his connection with Andi that was the biggest low he had so far into the show...then he came back apologetic

Anyways if there's one thing I've learned on this show it's that people see/interpret other's behavior very differently on this show and also time is the only indicator that actually shows the truth everything else can become a circular argument not that it can't be enjoyed but kalas! it's how it is...

@GA several weeks ago some people I think including @notarose and @happygolucky were also commenting that V's background and the gender roles in those cultures she was exposed to might explain some of her temperament...very interesting stuff

I am sure Vanessa has many sides to her personality and is a great person outside of the bachelor world, but the "Bachelor Vanessa" is not a favourite of mine. I also wanted to love her as the F1 and because I though her intro video was very touching, but she isnt doing it for me on the show at all.
Ohhh I wont play ouija, oh I dont want to compete for time, oh I was shocked I didnt get the FIR, oh Corrine and lets not forget her facial expressions so far. IMO

My take on Vanessa and Danielle's tears are that we should have expected this. The storyline this season is that Nick might end up alone. How are they going to sell that story if Vanessa is cool as a cucumber about her time and relationship with Nick?  

There needs to be a hurdle for them to overcome. The producers know this and would do anything to provide the right circumstance to create this doubt. And of course as the audience, we need to see it to have our doubts about Nick's happy ending as well.

I'm pretty sure that Vanessa would have agreed with Danielle that it is silly to be upset over losing a volleyball game. Who knows, maybe she did? But we are only shown what the producers think will sell the story.

Plus, isn't it better that Vanessa focus on her relationship with Nick? How can her feelings of sadness at losing time with him be a bad thing for them?

I wouldn't do the ouija board either but I do think the crying is a little excessive in this case imo