Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

well if Nick looked at me the way he looked at Vanessa, I'd think I was getting that rose too It's no coincidence she got the first rose during the rose ceremony Jmo.

crunchycheeto wrote:I think saying you're shocked you didn't get the FIR doesn't necessarily mean you think you're the frontrunner. Honestly, that reminds me of the time Cody accused Nick of identifying as a frontrunner when Nick had (only) initially said he felt confident in his and Andi's relationship. I think it just implies that Vanessa felt confident in the first impression she made and the response she got from Nick. Also, this was an ITM and perhaps a producer had asked her how she felt about not getting the FIR, and I think she gave a pretty honest (maybe a bit hyperbolic) answer.

Agreed. To each his own but I'm sensing a little nitpicking of Vanessa here. She felt like they had a really great conversation and connection and thought she had a great chance of getting the rose and expressed that honestly. I didn't see that as thinking she's better than anyone or even that she is the front runner. She was just really happy and confident in the conversation they had and was disappointed when she didn't get the FIR. I think normal human beings are allowed to feel like that sometimes.  

And frankly, in my opinion, assuming the spoilers are correct (and I think they are) then the fact that he picked her in the end makes me think she wasn't delusional in thinking there was a strong connection that night. I didn't think she was rude or negative towards Rachel in any way - she didn't say, "how could he give it to her instead of me". Her feelings were solely in relation to her feelings and what she thought was there between the two of them.

I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a long season and why I've always said sometimes watching the show spoiled is a bad thing. I think, in my opinion, some people's opinions are getting colored by RS's claim that Vanessa was a mini-villain because the other women weren't that close to her and particularly that she and Rachel got into it and the women sided with Rachel. I hope I'm wrong because I am so tired of women being pitted against each other.

And for the record, to each his own, but I thought Nick and Vanessa did have amazing chemistry and in fact, again in my opinion, had the most in the episode. Yes, like most horndog men he couldn't stop looking Danielle L.'s boobs, he seemed to like Rachel as a person and he and Dani M. had a nice, easy vibe. But that two second look Nick and Vanessa shared before Corinne interrupted was one of the most intense looks I've seen on this show and especially for night one. Frankly that was hotter to me than a makeout.

There was something almost questioning on both their faces, like they were both thrown by whatever they were feeling in the moment. So yeah, I don't blame Vanessa for being surprised and disappointed when she didn't get the FIR. But she didn't seem to harp on it or get over the top in her emotions like Kristina and Jasmine G.

This is a discussion thread. So discussion on just about anything within the site rules are going to exist from now until weeks after ATFR.

I was trying to think what about Vanessa's circumstance would cause her to have a mini-meltdown and it made sense to me that she would be upset and shed tears over Nick's choice in women. I don't think that she is upset over the specific woman he keeps but rather because she expressed her concern about her and Nick did not listen to her advice. That would raise suspicion regarding how much Nick trusts Vanessa's opinion and values his relationship with her.  

In a normal dating situation, if Vanessa were to express concern about a friendship that was harmful to Nick and he ignored her advice, I have a feeling she would be upset and confront him. She just forgot that the Bachelor is not normal life and Nick is pretty stubborn wanting to figure it all out for himself.

IA that some opinions are being coloured by the spoilers and RS' claims. Vanessa's thread had been generally positive just weeks ago, and now I'm seeing more of a mix. In some ways I get it, because there were a lot of expectations that perhaps, depending upon one's interpretation, were unfulfilled in night one. But it's like a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't situation'. If they showed ALL the chemistry between Nick and Vanessa, then it would've been TOO obvious. If they held back on showing it, then we'd have people here saying they didn't see anything between them. I think the editing department struck a good balance, especially with that last lingering look before they were interrupted. Although, personally, I would've liked to see Vanessa showing that album/scrapbook.

With regard to women pitting women against each other drama... I'm starting to see the rift emerge between those who identify as either team Rachel or team Vanessa. I imagine it'll only get worse once the season progresses. It's unfortunate because they're both my favourites so far.

emusha wrote:@notarose what did you witness from the women in Italy that you can't hardly wait to watch?

I would go with "passionate" ... and for some reason they like to "play out jealousy" scenes pretty loud (and a lot of Italian men say they like their women "jealous" type ... which means they want them to be expressive about "possessing" their men, but it's mostly for the men's ego boost), love quarrels are a must, otherwise it's considered "boring", a bit theatrical for some taste, but overly entertaining.

From my point of view I could care less what RS or anyone else says about any of the contestants. But when I do watch this show, I like to watch for a multidimensionality in people's personalities and to watch for the details and clues for that. Over the period of this show it's the imperfections of the contestants that have made this show more interesting for me to watch -- weird switch in focus I know...from the almost disney-sweet romance I used to watch for to the imperfections and flaws that show what makes these contestants tick...

With Vanessa they were sharing a glaring "chemistry" edit and her fantastic career + sophistication with language + skills as a potential future home-maker until I watched the *way* Vanessa said "I'm shocked" -- not the fact that she said it, but the tone and expression with which she said it. For the first time, I could see her sassy, overconfident and naive side and that made her much more intriguing. I could imagine her potential journey on this show and while I didn't like her reaction I can see how it came from her getting exposed to the format of this show to begin with. We shall definitely see what's to come and as I said before -- this has only made me more curious about her journey and that is to come.

Overall she and a few of the other women on this season are some of the most exciting, well-rounded and impressive women I've seen on this show already able to express and show many different sides of themselves and that's because of what Nick looks for in a partner i.e. their personalities actually fit in the main storyline vs. will be on the cutting room floor. I hope that will continue to be the case and we learn all the many dimensions of their personalities like we have learned Nick's including their not so perfect sides!

As long as it is within the site rules  I don't mind people giving their popular/unpopular opinions about the contestants coloured or not. I love the different points of view, gives me things(good or bad) to look out for in the contestants IMO

I tried to read back and i have not seen anyone pit the women against each other, just a few people who had minor concerns about what Vanessa said in the ITMs and preview.

crunchycheeto wrote:

With regard to women pitting women against each other drama... I'm starting to see the rift emerge between those who identify as either team Rachel or team Vanessa. I imagine it'll only get worse once the season progresses. It's unfortunate because they're both my favorites so far.

Let me put it out there ---> I'm not on anyone's team to win Nick's heart - we don't really know much at all about these contestants but I'm pretty sold that so far, from what little we know, Vanessa seems the girl "On Paper" that Nick's been looking for as a significant other for many different reasons, especially if they can work out logistics. If she is feisty -- which I'm starting to sense that she is based on the hint above...she'll be the kind of firecracker he professes that wants/needs.

However, I am very much invested in watching and understanding the depth of the relationships that develop with his top ladies as well as their personalities and the intimacies their personalities afford with Nick. I can already see hints of how his relationship may have started to develop with Rachael and how it may start to play out in the parallel world. I will continue to follow these two and more of the relationships in this manner as the show continues.

emusha wrote:@notarose what did you witness from the women in Italy that you can't hardly wait to watch?

I'll start with a disclaimer.  People of any culture are never all the same however there are certain things that I thought were fairly consistent.
Italian women - in general (specific to Italy)
Italian men may be stereotyped as macho but they are often raised to pull out all the stops when pursuing a woman for marriage potential.  They are fully attentive (more intense then many North American men in my opinion), very direct in epressing their feelings and desires, very hands on compared to North Americans, and lavish in romantic gesture.  Italian women are raised to expect this as the markers of interest and are very forthcoming about having their needs met.  
Culturally, moms raise their daughters to take pride in their femininity and it is seen as a strength.  Italian women can be very alluring one minute then "take charge" the next. We might see it as "mercurial" but it is just ordinary in Italy. Emotional intensity, which is passionately expressed, as well as a commanding presence, is just par for the course. I saw that in Vanessa a few times - when she was talking about her job her speech pattern changed (very very much like the women I know) and that same speech pattern returned when Nick asked her her name again. And the way she moved her hands in his when repeating her name then telling him he did a good job of introducing himself in French is so classic.
That's just a few generalizations. If she is heavily influenced by her Italian roots then we might have a few Fellini moments which I would very much look forward to  

@emusha I agree that the caliber of women seem exceptional this season. I also wonder if the characters seem more real this season because of Nick's transparent dialogue and the slight editing tweak some have picked up.

I also do not care about what RS wrote or said. I don't know Vanessa and haven't seen much of her on the chow yet to make a judgement that she is what Nick has always wanted. What I saw in episode 1 is what I commented on, that may change as the season goes on. So far, she seems okay but I am not a fan of contestants who imply their connections are stronger than others on day one1!! you only just met, give it time before you start claiming the Lead. JMO.