Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

Kashathediva wrote:I know I am in a minority, I simply don't understand a team this or a team that. I just watch the show.

You and me both.

IMO calling someone "fake" when you're supposedly friends is talking smack - that's just my interpretation though.

Yes but the spoilers give no context for when or how this happened. And even saying they were friends - were their best friends and really close or just friendly? All I'm saying is RS could write that he heard she called Danielle fake to Nick and the other women because maybe one of them spoiled that to him and that is indeed what happened. And someone reads it and immediately thinks, "how awful..."

But then the episode airs and maybe we see a conversation between Danielle and Vanessa that others weren't present for and didn't know about that gives context to why she developed that opinion and makes it understandable why she thought that. The best way I can describe this is again Nick's season. I'm pretty sure RS noted that Nick was the villain during Andi's season and I remember when the season promo was shown, one immediately could have deduced that Nick would be the center of drama during the season.

And yet I watched the season, watched every episode and I never thought he did anything so awful. Yes he was unapologetic and aggressive in his pursuit of Andi but from my perspective he was the one constantly verbally attacked and mistreated by the guys. And yet to so many, Nick was the villain. So to each his own, but I am not going to judge someone's character until I see the situation for myself and get context of what happened.

I can't with the teams especially this early on with such little information, especially when a bulk of that information is coming from RS. Even his supposedly objective information is coloured with his subjective commentary. Like he can't report on Corrine taking her top off without low-key sl*t-shaming her.

I like Vanessa, Danielle L., and Rachel. Actually, I'd say most of the women 27 and over, I'm a pretty big fan of so far. Until they do or say something on screen or on SM that I don't like, then I'll reserve my judgment. But I understand that this is a forum and everyone's entitled to their opinions, so keep on keepin' on!

GuardianAngel wrote:

So I understand who don't think Vanessa's so stunning and she and Nick were amazing. That's all okay. It's this narrative that seems to be forming to make her out to be this villain and unlikelable that's baffling. And again this whole Team this one and that one. Do we do this for The Bachelorette and the men? Just asking.

It doesn't matter. This is a discussion forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. If there are 80% against the spoiled F1 and 20% for or vice versa, again, it doesn't matter. There are non spoiled threads for those who want to participate, and no one has to pay attention to Blogger Boy if they don't want to.

Even after we do see the epi air, there will be a variety of opinions, and again, that's what this forum's purpose is. To discuss the various POV's.

If someone wants to villainize a contestant, it's their right as a member but not within the rules to state they can't or shouldn't.

I never said anyone should not or could not say anything they wanted and never intended to infer that. I didn't think saying I didn't understand where a sentiment was coming from meant telling someone they cannot say it.

Remember also CH say the viewers will like Rachel, so something must have gone done for the girls to be on Rachel side.

He also said this about her:

so she can kind of impose her will on everybody. That is not a recipe for having an easy go in the house with the women, but it does help when trying to make sure you get noticed by the bachelor and get your time with him.

I like to be TeamXXX, just because it's more fun viewing (to me ) if I like and root for someone specifically. But I respect everyone's opinions. My bottomline: this is entertainment and I thoroughly enjoy reading and posting on this forum, even though I don't agree with all the posts all the time, but it's fun nevertheless.

Yes but the spoilers give no context for when or how this happened.

@lleyki  I qualified my first post re. this with "we'll have to see how it all plays out" - I'm just putting out initial reactions based on what we have so far. Am I possibly biased because I prefer  DLo (and Rachel in the other situation) to Vanessa pre-season? Of course!

Honestly, I'm glad the RS info is painting Vanessa in a drama light for my own entertainment - it's interesting to me to watch complex/flawed characters who aren't liked by all. Bring on all the drama and fireworks - I don't have to like someone (as a TV figure) to like being entertained by them (unless they go way OTT like Ashley I but that's another story). And like others have pointed out before - this is Nick we're talking about so it's not surprising IMO that his F1 might a bit

^^ So we seem to agree that RS epi by epi spoilers is a combination of facts (bits he picked up from various sources, his own sleuthing, interviews, and SM) that he then intersperse with conjecture to complete the story.  But that is his story that he packages as if he had watched the episodes based on how he tells it.  But we know it isn't because several facts are still missing. E.g. Vanessa had the 1-1 zero gravity date, but what happened to the evening date - did they not have one? (Crickets)

I think it is up to us to filter the facts and add our own conjectures depending on our POVs.  

My take on the "fake" (see what I did there ?):  DanielleL and Vanessa were friends and DanielleL may have said some things to her that Vanessa deemed to be untrue or were invalidated by other conversations Danielle has held with either Nick or other ladies.  It is also possible that Vanessa felt after rooming with Danielle (were they roommates?) for a few days that she wasn't there for the right reasons.  For example, someone saying, "...if nothing else I get some trips out of this" or "...at least I promote my brand" is a naive thing to say because it can be taken out of context.  Personally in that situation, I may say something like that so that when or if I do lose, it wouldn't feel so bad.  In a house full of women who are dating the same guy, this would be a common thing and strong voices (especially those seemingly favored by the lead) will stand out.  

@Reason - I have a hunch that Rachel is more liked because as a lawyer, she must know when to keep her mouth shut (she knows when hearsay is hearsay).

BTW, I'm TeamNick - Nick Chicks all the way! Sorry, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

^^Argh this is giving me shades of what happened to Caila on BIP - I guess I tend to like girls who are deemed (or are allegedly deemed) "fake" by other contestants - oh well . Maybe DLo supposedly said something about not liking Nick 100% as well

So far I am team nobody although of everyone from episode one Nick impressed me the most followed by the Danielle's. I had very little impression of Vanessa either way except that I thought Nick seemed most into her. More so than Rachel but that is my interpretation. I liked her intro and her limo exit I did not like her moment laughing with the girls at the camel hump thing. Did she think that girl came up with that on her own? That she legit brought a camel? Seemed a little off to me but I feel like we have hardly seen any of them yet so I am waiting to jump on to ships or teams. I am, however, a team player so I am sure I will have one at some point. And to the ones interested in teams on Bach v.Ettes I was team Chase so I am an equal opportunity team player. All my opinions.

I think I'm pretty average in terms of my ability to get along with others, including when I am "put together" with a group of people I didn't choose to be with and I don't like "drama " or confrontations and try hard to avoid them.  If I was  locked up sequestered with a group of other women, no access to the outside world and basically made to think about the "hamburger" (ala Kasha) 24\7, I'd probably become a raving lunatic and get carted off by the men in white coats.

So whatever RS says, I'll just wait to watch the albeit heavily edited scenes on the show and form an opinion then.

casjacknick wrote:So far I am team nobody although of everyone from episode one Nick impressed me the most followed by the Danielle's. I had very little impression of Vanessa either way except that I thought Nick seemed most into her. More so than Rachel but that is my interpretation. I liked her intro and her limo exit I did not like her moment laughing with the girls at the camel hump thing. Did she think that girl came up with that on her own? That she legit brought a camel? Seemed a little off to me but I feel like we have hardly seen any of them yet so I am waiting to jump on to ships or teams. I am, however, a team player so I am sure I will have one at some point. And to the ones interested in teams on Bach v.Ettes I was team Chase so I am an equal opportunity team player. All my opinions.

See and I'm with Vanessa with the highlighted. I thought she and the other women just enjoyed the whole silly joke of arriving on the camel. |t's the first night and people/producers come up with silly intros. It's to be expected. They laughed about the shark/dolphin too. I doubt any of them though she brought her own camel. I bet more than a few of them discussed with producers/handlers what they would/could do for their intro when they got out of the limos and I highly suspect some others had some whacky suggestions made to them. Some may have gone along with the suggestions and other not so much. I think they all get it. Personally, I though that was a nice moment. I bet they would have laughed at some of the others as well if they had seen them.

I'm team no one but I usually side with the one that the producers of the show are trying really hard for me to not like than the one they just want me to like because she's going to be the next ette. I like to form my own opinion and not the one RS and the producers are trying to create. Based on what I know about Vanessa, I can see the women not liking her because of the whole speaking 3 languages and being Nick's fave. I also think the supposed fight between Rachel and Vanessa happened because both have strong, confident personalities. It was bound to happen imo.