Ashley I - BIP - Season 3 - Discussion

siena wrote:I will have to disagree with you strongly if you don't believe that what Caila experienced is bullying. Or that a victim trying to placate a bully means that the bully's actions have been absolved. Caila has agreed that she made mistakes. She's written about it and said as much in interviews. The issue for me was never that Ashley had just randomly made up a lie. I think the conversation that took place between Amanda and Caila was misconstrued. Ashley said in the article that Caila had said she was misinterpreted when Ashley confronted her. Caila wasn't as into Jared as he was into her, this was known by both parties. Caila said that she was 70% into Jared (as retold by Carly), and she also said to Jared that she just wanted to keep hanging out and take things slow.

Ashley's vilification by the public isn't only tied to people thinking she lied about Caila. Her vilification in my opinion is based on her obsessive actions towards Jared, and her use of slurs. Then there was her saying she wanted to scratch Caila's eyes out, her mocking of Caila's eyes, and her use of social media to pile on after the show finished filming. IMO Ashley's vilification would've happened regardless if Caila had been there. Ashley's focus would've been another girl Jared was dating, as Ashley displayed with her language towards Shushanna when she went on a date with Wells.

Ashley is an unstable mess willing to bully people who go against what she wants. That's reason enough IMO for other members of the cast to side with her. They're also her friends and were never close to Caila to begin with. I don't find it laughable in the least that they would choose to protect and support Ashley. All JMO.

^ITA 

I don't think Ashley's actions have been absolved, even if Caila was plotting a fake engagement or whatever. Whatever was said by Caila the day before she left doesn't justify the things Ashley said and did before that or any sort of mocking. But she didn't actually make Caila leave, at least on her own. Sounds like Amanda let all the women know about the conversations she had with Caila and Ashley simply talked to Caila about it. She didn't ask Caila leave, that was something she decided to do on her own. She didn't even miss out on Jared, since he followed her and they were seeing each other for more than a month afterwards. I personally find it a bit unreasonable to make Ashley out to be some kind of a monster. The things that she has been called here are way worse than the jealous word vomit she let out about Caila, since it's actually personal. No one thinks Caila is a whore just because Ashley said so without meaning it, but many seem to think Ashley is a psycho stalker and a bully who needs intense long-term therapy based on an hour or two of an edited TV show and some tweets. While I think she is/was obsessed with Jared and should've let him figure things out for himself, I also think she thinks she was simply protecting him and that she did the right thing. I don't think it's something she did out of pure evil or just to amuse herself. I also think it is pretty shady if Caila was willing to get engaged on the show even though she didn't even want to exclusively date Jared. There's being in bubble love or close to it and taking a leap of faith because there's nothing to lose, and then there's getting engaged for the show even though you're not actually looking for commitment and don't even know if you like the other person. Someone who's held to such high regard as Caila is around here shouldn't even be considering the latter IMO. You can't have it both ways. You can't say she's just doing what everyone else is doing, while saying she's so different and better than everyone else. JMOAA.

Ashley called Shushanna a "Russian hooker" and "eurotrash". She gets zero sympathy from me but I am glad she apologized after being called out by millions.

mindless wrote:I don't think Ashley's actions have been absolved, even if Caila was plotting a fake engagement or whatever. Whatever was said by Caila the day before she left doesn't justify the things Ashley said and did before that or any sort of mocking. But she didn't actually make Caila leave, at least on her own. Sounds like Amanda let all the women know about the conversations she had with Caila and Ashley simply talked to Caila about it. She didn't ask Caila leave, that was something she decided to do on her own. She didn't even miss out on Jared, since he followed her and they were seeing each other for more than a month afterwards. I personally find it a bit unreasonable to make Ashley out to be some kind of a monster. The things that she has been called here are way worse than the jealous word vomit she let out about Caila, since it's actually personal. No one thinks Caila is a whore just because Ashley said so without meaning it, but many seem to think Ashley is a psycho stalker and a bully who needs intense long-term therapy based on an hour or two of an edited TV show and some tweets. While I think she is/was obsessed with Jared and should've let him figure things out for himself, I also think she thinks she was simply protecting him and that she did the right thing. I don't think it's something she did out of pure evil or just to amuse herself. I also think it is pretty shady if Caila was willing to get engaged on the show even though she didn't even want to exclusively date Jared. There's being in bubble love or close to it and taking a leap of faith because there's nothing to lose, and then there's getting engaged for the show even though you're not actually looking for commitment and don't even know if you like the other person. Someone who's held to such high regard as Caila is around here shouldn't even be considering the latter IMO. You can't have it both ways. You can't say she's just doing what everyone else is doing, while saying she's so different and better than everyone else. JMOAA.

It really does depend on whose team you're on. Truth is more or less irrelevant for some.

I am just going to say something about AI since this is her thread.

On AP she apologized for her comments about Caila, referring to them as 'emotional vomit'.  We all know that 'vomit' is something nasty and rancid.  The act of vomiting can be either involuntary or voluntary.  

If a person 'vomits' involuntarily with the frequency that AI appears to, I would say that they need medical attention to find the reason.  This is for the health and safety of the person.

If a person 'vomits' voluntarily with the frequency that AI appears to, I would liken that to a condition called Bulimia and would say that they need medical and psychological attention to find the reason. This is also for the health and safety of the person.

I am not a doctor of psychology, but I have observed some strange and concerning behaviors from her that do not seem to be related to a single incident (such as grief for a reasonable time period after the death of a loved one) and that concerning behavior does appear to be having negative effects on her life and the lives of others to some degree.  

To me, as a non-professional observer, it appears that she has issues that would benefit from therapy. I do not say that as a putdown.  Therapy can improve and even save lives.  I do not feel mean or unkind suggesting therapy to her here.  I would also say Jared could benefit from therapy as well.  Most people would benefit from therapy. JMHOAA.

IWouldMarryAshleyI wrote:

It really does depend on whose team you're on. Truth is more or less irrelevant for some.

No "team" has the copyright to the "truth" than any other team.

^^^Truth is always relevant, however, different people see different truths depending on their own experiences. Given a choice of who I would want to be friends with, based on what I have seen during multiple seasons and post show behaviour...I would choose Caila hands down!

In the end, Karma will get you. One is travelling and enjoying her life and the other is still whining on and on and blaming everyone and the edit. Shocker.

Caila never said Ashley made her leave. Caila said in the ITM, "I don't feel comfortable here whatsoever and I just want to go home." Caila also told Jared that he didn't have to go with her, and that it was up to him to decide.

IMO Ashley has behaved awfully. And it has nothing to do with telling Caila to leave. The things said on an online forum are not the equivalent of words said on a nationally broadcast television program viewed by millions.

Ashley has been judged because IMO her actions were those of someone behaving like a bully and a psycho-stalker. Ashley told a girl she'd met a few times in person not to go on a program because she thought she would be her only competition for a guy. Ashley told Caila that she could never meet Jared because he'd like her. Ashley called Caila a backstabbing wh*re, piece of sh*t, awful human being, b*tch. Ashley called Shushanna eurotrash and a russian hooker. Ashley told the public that she and Jared had gotten to "2nd base". Ashley told the public that she could mind f*ck Jared. Ashley told the public that she enjoyed threatening Caila. Ashley mocked Caila's eyes. Ashley tweeted a sl*t shaming lyric directed at Caila. Ashley used her social media to bash Caila non-stop for 2 weeks. Those are her own actions.

I don't believe that Ashley's intentions were ever pure towards Caila or Jared, and that this was just about protecting Jared. That is just my perspective and reading of the situation. Ashley sabotaged their relationship from the start by not even wanting them to meet. Was that protecting Jared? IMO it was motivated from Ashley's selfish desire to have Jared to herself. Ashley has said as much in her recaps. She didn't want Jared to meet anyone he would REALLY like.

Again, Caila said that her conversation with Amanda was misconstrued when Ashley confronted her. The comment about getting engaged is hearsay, and as many other's have pointed out, could've been as simple as saying that she would be willing to get engaged and have it not work out. That she (along with all the other people who signed up for this show) was willing to take that risk. That's probably the least clear part of Ashley's version of events and whatever Amanda relayed. My point is that Caila didn't get engaged to Jared. She didn't string out a showmance. They dated in private for 6 weeks, during which Caila refused to take photos with people when she was with Jared. IMO these are not the actions of someone looking for publicity or redemption.

IMO you can be the same as everyone else in some respects and different in other respects. Caila went on this show for the same promotional reasons as everyone else, but she also never bullied anyone. I don't think Caila is perfect and without flaws. And I am sure Ashley can be sweet to her own family. They both have different aspects to them. However, IMO Ashley has shown an incredibly vindictive and mean side. I think that is worthy of censure. And I genuinely think Ashley needs professional help. All JMO.

One was painted as an innocent snowflake who can do no wrong and the other as a psycho stalking bully. One has the support of about almost all the people who were actually there IRL and the other doesn't. It's funny because I also prefer Caila to Ashley but I feel like I have to defend Ashley a bit because while I don't agree with a lot of what she says, Caila did act shady on BiP and that seems to getting glossed over in the race to trash Ashley. Ashley has a platform that she does recaps on every week, this week she chose to use it to explain her thought process while giving context to certain things and also expressed regret for some of the things she said. I find no fault in that. I also don't think Ashley needs professional help, if by that you meant therapy. She's naive, immature and bratty. What she seems to need is to grow up and have some real life experiences IMO. This show hasn't helped because it's such a distorted reality.

@siena you're always able to articulate exactly what I'm thinking better than I ever could.  
I should just say ITA to all your posts and call it a day

My take on the Cosmo recap.

Ashley/Trashley is certifiably Nuts. I believe she has needs intensive therapy. She lacks empathy and accountability. Sociopath comes to mind.

Ashley repeatedly tries to mention Nick as her advisor. How convenient for her. I bet Nick stops taking her calls as she is a liability.

Caila needs to move on from this toxic "friendship" and cut off all contact.
Being nice in this situation is not the answer.

The only hugely Positive thing is Ashley's Trashing of TPTB and her edit...most likely will end her invites to the Franchise. Hopefully she burned her last bridge...And I never see her on my TV again after BIP wraps.

JMO

Calling out Ashley for bullying others is not glossing over what Caila did. But for me, it is hard to judge someone based on hearsay. I absolutely believe that what Caila said could have been misconstrued. I find the sources (Ashley, Amanda, Carly) unreliable. These are the same girls that accused Britt of not wanting marriage and a family. Britt shot them down immediately and they backed off. With Ashley, I saw what she did and heard what was said. It was malicious. Up until a few days ago she was still retweeting shade towards Caila. She should have apologized to Shushanna after the episode aired or long before in private. She wouldn't have said a word had Caila not reached out. I don't know that she needs therapy but I don't buy for a second she is sorry for anything. JMO.