THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - SCaps - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

Perfect match! That outcropping to the right of Chase's head matches the one near the mid right side of tripadvisor pic.

Lost17 wrote:So I'm thinking, 2 different locations, 2 different tables (or whatever you call them) 2 different roses and 2 different dresses. (Probably why we got such a funky edit) Possible scenario-Robby & Chase make it to Thailand, both let go there. We see what we think is Jordan with a ring box, so is he let go in Thailand too? Or possible he went to the other location? OR could Luke show up in that scenario? Luke or Jordan was let go after HTD's I assume, will she let one go and does he come back? Does she let all her 3 in Thailand (assuming that's Jordan in Thailand) go and does Luke ride in on his unicorn! #keepinghopealive  :cutesmile!:


Ok, enough sleuthing for me!

I am quoting myself from a previous post:

".....I think there were 2 different FRC set ups....one in Thailand with F2 and 1 in LA with the F1....and here is why.....

in the video of Jojo walking on Thailand beach, you can see 3+ large fishing boats out quite a distance in the water. The water is calm. The sand by the water is very smooth and wet, not a lot of foot prints. I believe this is really Thailand.

in the video fo Jojo crying in Thailand she is standing on grass with palm trees around her. In one shot she turns her back to camera and you can see that the grassy area is above the beach, it overlooks the beach. There are statues and pots and flowers in the shot. There is a hanging decoration, like something you might stand under for a ceremony. I think this is really Thailand. And I think this is the location of the FRC in Thailand---on the grassy knoll. (This is really starting to sound like a conspiracy theory now, right? laugh out loud)

in the video of Jojo walking barefooted onto the wooden planks to a wooden FRC platform, you can see that there is ocean, sandy beach, then wooden planks. The sandy beach is very foot-printed, the ocean waves look a bit rougher, there is a visible rock in the water towards the right side. And there are 3 boats in the water, in a similar location of the shot as in Thailand, BUT those are NOT the same boats! They are smaller boats, different shaped boats, and they are not too far off of the shoreline. There are also 2 boats on the beach off to the right side of frame. I think these were all put here to stage the shots like they took place in Thailand, but that they really look place in LA.

....here is more reason....in all of the clips of Jojo and the man/men in the blue suits, we cannot get a good look at what is in the background of them. Almost all of the background color is light blue/grey/white. This is the case for all SC and preview videos when the blue suit is in them. They want to make us believe that both FRC took place in the same location. BUT, if you look at the one where she is crying with blue suit, behind her right shoulder, you can make out what looks like a vertical structure, like a post....it's a tree trunk! If you look at the video of her on the grassy knoll, you'll see that there are many thin trunked palm trees on the grassy knoll overlooking the Thailand beach. Therefore, the clips of her crying with blue suit were taken in Thailand from the vantage point of the grassy knoll. They were NOT taken from a wooden platform located on a sandy beach just feet from the ocean with NO TREES behind her!

I think Jojo freaked out so badly when she let F2 go, that she couldn't continue on with the FRC. I think she asked for more time with her F1 to really make sure she had made the correct decision. The F1 may have also wanted to delay the FRC/rose/proposal himself. I think they went back to LA and some time later they set up some wooden platforms on the beach, decorated in a Thai theme, and she picked her final guy not in Thailand, but in LA (or at least NOT THailand).

call me crazy, but check out the video yourselves and tell me what you think. "

LOST, I, too, think there are 2 different FRC step ups. And your 2 tables SC is even more evidence pointing towards that. I originally thought the life guard cabin had something to do with it, but it doesn't. But we have several things now that don't match up.

I am also convinced that the video clip of Jojo in her FRC dress very calmly saying "I fell in love with a man who wasn't able to love me back (paraphrased)" was a pick up video. She is speaking so sedately. I do not think it is from the same day as when she is hysterical crying, not even later on that same day. She also looks heavier in the face and body in that clip than in the other one where she is crying. As we have seen in some clips, her face ha gotten fuller as the season has progressed, but why would there be a diff between the fullness of her face on the exact same day!?

I think the real FRC was delayed and took place a diff location. In the video of her walking onto the wooden planks, there is a cliff to the right, and there is a single tree on top of cliff. It is not a palm tree. It is a diff type of tree. If we can figure that out, we might get a clue as to the beach of that FRC. Like I said above, the 3 boats in the water are diff boats in the 2 videos. Well, you could say that she was walking along one beach and got boats A,B, and C filmed in one shot and then the wooden planks video was shooting from a diff angle or diff beach completely and therefore got 3 diff boats in it. BUT, the 3 boats in the wooden planks video have no distinguishing features that make them look like authentic Thailand (fishing/sailing) boats. These 3 boats look like your typical outboard motor boat - something that isn't specifically associated with Thailand. They could have easily been placed there by tptb to be a quick trick of the eye to viewers. There is also 2 wooden boats beached to the right that appear to look more like authentic Thailand style boats. BUT, why are they leaning together, propped exactly to the side of the frame? They, too, seem like they are placed by tptb to be a quick trick of the eye to the viewer. Why would 2 fishing/sailing boats be pulled up on the sand like that, but other smaller boats be anchored out in the water? Something does not seem right to me. Until I see more of the landscape shown in videos with the wooden planks, I will not be convinced that they are on a (or the same) beach in Thailand. This new conspiracy theory splits this thing wide-open. Meaning ANY of the guys could have been summoned back for a delayed FRC....Luke, Chase, Robby, Jordan....evan Chad Bear.

Mia great minds, I was just coming over to post some of my thoughts I had written down and you write that! It's a possibilty. I agree about 2 different locations and the blurred effect-here's what I think.

Throwing this out there…is it still possible Jordan doesn’t make it to Thailand right after Hometowns? I’m thinking so. Does he even make it to hometowns? We know he has a ring box, could he have left somehow- somewhere between epi 7 & 8/end of 8. Luke then goes on to Thailand, we’re just not seeing him (just like Jordan-we don’t see him after epi 7-except for the box/ring, BUT we DO see Luke in epi 8 (HTD).

If, as we suppose, that is Jordan with the ring, maybe he came back before the finale (possibly might be why we see the note/letter?? and Jo’s panic attack).

The editing on the ‘Robby’ & Jo scene is odd, which ‘looks’ like the FRC area because of the one rose, but is it really?? Everything is blurred out beyond them (just like Mia says). And just like Mia I think it was possible it was a different area/different day, BUT now I thinking probably still Thailand. That scene looks different than the one where she’s walking up to the FRC podium, the table where the rose is, is different too…look at my cap up above. What’s on the right hand side there? Hat? Sorry Mia, but I think your spumoni doesn't make it to the FRC.  

Some don’t see what Jojo has with Luke, I’m seeing tons of chemistry, the sparks fly between them..would she really not explore that as long as she could..come on, a hot passionate man saying all she wants to hear- makes her feel good, comfortable, sexy, she trusts him and what they have, she even said what they have is deeper than just the chemistry… and that was ON their first 1on1-they all of a sudden fizzle out..don’t think so.

Well, well, well...the plot thickens.

I need to go back and look at the clips that you're referring to, Mia. I take it that most of what you describe is from the FRC. Is it also from the first episode of JoJo walking along the beach? I can't do it today because of the holiday, but if I know exactly what I'm to take SCs of, I might be able to illustrate your points. I must confess that I read your post the other day, but wasn't able to process it all because I'm a visual person. Sometimes I need to see it. (To clarify, please tell me the specific clips to cap especially if it's more than the FRC preview. Once I post them, you might need to tell me how to rearrange them in order to make your point to compare.)

If what you guys are theorizing is true, maybe this explains the harsh treatment towards Jordan. He nearly ruined this season in the eyes of TPTB...if JoJo was prepared to walk away alone. If, if, if what you guys are proposing is true, then it sounds like TPTB had to work overtime to save their show.

Double posting...sorry!

Lost's cap...



Blow up of my cap...I see the hint of the ribbon/cloth around the top of the podium...so it could be the same, but no doodad off to the side.

agentcurls wrote:Thumb comparison: Robby



Jordan:

Whose thumb is this below? Robby's still? Because it looks "knuckley" to me, like Jordan's? I go back and forth. TBD

Notice JoJo took her shoes off before her walk on the beach; here she is close to FRC podium pacing (just trying to find continuity):

Trying to match sunlight reflections/coloring: 
"I fell in love with you..."

(Mouth blocked so not sure this is what she really says over this) "It's really hard for me.." (VO holding hands "to not accept this love...")

(all SCs my own)
The second one looks like it could be later. The sky is darker. JoJo's hair looks more washed out/not as golden (lack of sun reflection?) blue suit looks darker/more grayish.

Ok, I'm going to try to explain what I am thinking about....

Look at the SCs above. If we are to believe that Jojo is standing with her F2 and/or F1 and talking to him/them at the FRC giving her speech (whatever that may be), wouldn't she be doing this speech on the FRC set up where the table is located? Things don't totally add up because...

In the photo where Jojo is standing on the grassy knoll alone with her back to us, we see lots of palm trees, plants, decorations, but no rose table. Is this the FRC set up spot (where the table should be) or the place that she walks the loser out to before they get in the limo and leave? Well, the hanging decoration could be the FRC set up spot that she stands under to deliver her speech or it could be the entry way to a path that leads down to the sandy beech where the actual wooden planks are as the true FRC set up spot.

Since there is no table visible, let's explore option #1. Option one is that it is simply the place where she walks the loser out to. Then why do we have SCs of her talking to blue suit saying at least part of her speech? During all of the "I fell in love with you" "what you did wasn't right" "I cannot accept your love" (paraphrased) clips there seems to be a flow of Jojo's face at least - with the tears and hair blown in her mouth. (I don't think the blue suit is consistent, but I do think Jojo is). It appears that those Jojo clips are part of one sequence. In all those blue suit clips there is a totally blued out background, with no trees visible, EXCEPT for one clip (the one where she is saying she cannot accept his love) where there is one blurred out palm tree trunk visible behind her shoulder. This leads me to believe that Jojo gave her entire speech in that spot, and it is a spot where she had a palm tree behind her. Since there is no palm tree on the wooden plank FRC set up, I think the actual speech took place on the grassy knoll.

Option #2 is that the grassy knoll is where the FRC set up was where Jojo gave her speech to the F2 and or F1. What's wrong with this options? Well, again, in all but one of the clips the back grounds are completely blued out and no trees, plants, or decorations are visible. This might be more consistent with the FRC set up being located right in front of the water. But the other thing that doesn't make sense is that there is no FRC rose table visible on the grassy knoll.

I propose that the backgrounds on the grassy knoll where blued out on purpose in order to make them generic. That way we could not distinguish that the true FRC took place at a diff location. I propose that the rose table on the grassy knoll was also photo-shopped out of the video. Why? Because there were 2 rose tables and they were not exactly the same. We see the top of the rose table in some SC behind blue suit - decorative trim, but doesn't appear to have more material hanging to right side (although I admit it is a very close up photo). We also can see the rose visible - it has a green rose hip sticking up at the base. Meanwhile, in the wooden planks FRC video we see what appears to be a different table (one with material hanging to side) and a rose that appears to not have a green rose hip pointing upward.

So, we have some items that don't match, and we have the elimination of some elements that would give away the fact that there were 2 diff FRC set ups.

Things that make you go Hmmmm...

Litta123 wrote:Well, well, well...the plot thickens.

I need to go back and look at the clips that you're referring to, Mia. I take it that most of what you describe is from the FRC. Is it also from the first episode of JoJo walking along the beach? I can't do it today because of the holiday, but if I know exactly what I'm to take SCs of, I might be able to illustrate your points. I must confess that I read your post the other day, but wasn't able to process it all because I'm a visual person. Sometimes I need to see it. (To clarify, please tell me the specific clips to cap especially if it's more than the FRC preview. Once I post them, you might need to tell me how to rearrange them in order to make your point to compare.)

If what you guys are theorizing is true, maybe this explains the harsh treatment towards Jordan. He nearly ruined this season in the eyes of TPTB...if JoJo was prepared to walk away alone. If, if, if what you guys are proposing is true, then it sounds like TPTB had to work overtime to save their show.

LITTA, All of the video I am talking about comes from episode 1's season previews and the previews at the end of Uruguay's episode.

LOST, What hat are you referring to? (or are you joking around with me?)  I think you might be very much on to something about Jordan leaving since we have no SC of him on HTD or Thailand. That would explain why tptb disliked him enough to edit him so horribly. Your sexy cowboy may have gotten to Thailand. :Bubba: Keeping your hope alive. I do think that there is a lot between Jojo and Luke. It would not be a surprise to me if she picks him. Although...  my heart will break :broken heart:  for my Robby! This would also be consistent with Robby getting the "day at the local market" type FD which a lot fo times goes to the F3.

Not joking Mia, look at the SC that Litta enlarged, you can see it on the rose stand on the right-she's pointing an arrow at it. You can see in the Robby caps that there is nothing there and nothing to hang it on. I'm not sure it's a hat, but it's something that isn't on there in the other caps.

I'll be more upset for you Shirl, than if Robby leaves! Not sure how this will all play out, just throwing some different possibilities out there.

It's like finding Waldo!!!

You're thinking this was near the original FRC set up:

And this is the possible 2nd FRC location? (I have to say the tree in the upper right reminds me of Northern CA, FWIW)

Solo walk on the beach:

FRC podium:

Here are two more of JoJo on the beach from her intro (what I believe is CA):


Notice the dress....it's a long maxi dress with slits so I don't think it's the same dress as someone mentioned a while back.
But I do notice more footprints on the CA beach. 
Please let me know if there are more specific SCs you would like to analyze.

AC, thanks.

Yes, I am thinking that your SC #1 above (with hanging decoration) was FRC set up #1. Notice all the palm trees. In the video clip of preview, you are able to see that this grassy area is elevated above the ocean, it is not level with the ocean/beach below. You cannot rally see that from the SC alone.

IF the Jojo speech was filmed on the grassy area (where she speaks to blue suit and says she cannot accept his love, etc), why do we not see anything like palm trees or plants in the background. Clearly there were plants and trees between them and the ocean. Yet all we see in the back ground is a blurry blue. IF the camera view was on the grassy area but from the other direction (away from the ocean and towards the grass) we wouldn't be seeing blue. We should be seeing green (grass, trees). So, this leads me to think that we are seeing the camera angle from the grass area towards the ocean. Then there is the one SC (in my above post I used your SC. The top one says thumb comparison with Robby and Jojo kissing. Go down to SC #7 in that post. over Jojo's shoulder you can see a blurred out vertical object. It is the same size as the palm tree trunk that would have been over Jojo's shoulder if she were standing on the grassy area beneath the hanging decoration to the left side and the man was standing on the right side (which is the orientation of all SC and is the typical way that the lead greets the contestants). That blurred out trunk is in a SC where Jojo is giving her speech to blue suit. It appears to be consistent with the other SC showing Jojo during her speech. Her hair is blown in her face, crying, etc. I think that all of the SC that show Jojo's face were all from that location. I do not necessarily think at the blue suit is all of only one man or only at that location. I think in order to slip in clips of Man#2 at location #2, they used trickery to make us think that those previews are all taking place at the same time at the same place. They blurred and blued out the backgrounds to make them generic.

I do believe that the bottom 2 SC you just posted were of Jojo at a CA beach. These were shown in her intro footage in epi one, and I don't think they have anything to do with the FRC.

However, the wood plank FRC set up strikes me as odd. Why?

1) Because like I said above, I don't think Jojo gave her speech to blue suit while standing in front of the ocean. I think she was standing in front of a palm tree trunk. There are no palm trees shown in that clip, and palm trees would not be growing on the sandy beach between ocean and wooden platform.

2) Because there just so happen to be 3 boats in the video with wooden platform that just so happen to correspond to the approx location of 3 boats in the walking alone on Thai beach video. Yet the boats are no the same boats.

3) That tree that is up on the cliff to the right. It's not a palm tree. In the video showing the grassy area (from diff angles, too) only palm trees are visible. Is this a diff Thai location or not Thailand at all?

4) the sand. Obviously sand looks diff when it is wet and when it is dry. We don't know where exactly Jojo was walking when they filmed the walking alone on a Thai beach video. It could have been right near the supposed FRC set up or a ways down the beach. It looks like she is walking close to the water because the sand behind is wet, but also the sand in the foreground is wet. It is not likely that this took place close to the wooden plank FRC set up because you can see that there is very, very little flat wet sand at the ocean's edge. The sand with the wooden planks is deeper sand, footprinted, and dry. Again, it is possible that she walked further down the beach for the walking alone footage. I'm just pointing out inconsistencies.

5) the ocean. when you watch the actual video of her walking on the Thai beach alone, you can see that the water is very flat, not big waves at all, and it simply washes up to the sand gently. When you watch the actual video of her walking onto the wooden planks, you can see that the water is a bit rougher, and there is a bit more of a whitecap wave when the water hits the sand. I think this is because these are 2 diff beaches. Again, is it 2 diff beaches because it is 2 completely diff FRC set ups or is it 2 diff beaches because she walked down further on the same beach? My gut tells me it is 2 completely diff beaches.

6) the decorations. I'm going to be completely honest. When I first watched the clips, I wasn't thinking anything conspiratorial, but what I did think was that the wooden plank FRC was just a bit tacky, like they were trying too hard or too little. it reminded me of Emily M's FRC set up. Why would they have to paint those platforms and put so many items there to make it look like they were in Thailand. If they were in Thailand, why wouldn't it just look like Thailand naturally? AND why would they go through the bother of decorating the grassy area so much with plants, flowers, statues if it wasn't the FRC set up? And why are the decorations on the grassy area more authentically Thai...palm trees, flowers, statues, as opposed to the object next to the beach wooden platform? All of the items next to the wooden planks could have easily been bought at any (US) garden/home store- baskets, vases, leis. Why not put the Budha statues down by the FRC setup? Those are authentically Thai and decorative? Why put those only in the pass-through area where the men walk in and exit? Doesn't make sense to me. Seems forced, either because it was trying to mimic the Thai style or because it was in Thailand but at a totally diff location.

All of this is my own personal speculations. Subject to change with more info available.

Lost17 wrote:

The editing on the ‘Robby’ & Jo scene is odd, which ‘looks’ like the FRC area because of the one rose, but is it really?? Everything is blurred out beyond them (just like Mia says). And just like Mia I think it was possible it was a different area/different day, BUT now I thinking probably still Thailand. That scene looks different than the one where she’s walking up to the FRC podium, the table where the rose is, is different too…look at my cap up above. What’s on the right hand side there? Hat? Sorry Mia, but I think your spumoni doesn't make it to the FRC.   .

LOST, I'm assuming that when you say "robby and Jojo" scenes, you are referring the close up shots of jojo holding hand of a blue suit with the rose table in background? (The SC were we are trying to look at the man's hands?) So, in those SC we see a table (without the cloth doodad hanging) with one rose. Are you suggesting that this table is not at a RC when she goes from 2 to 1 man, but rather it is when she goes from 3 men to 2 men?

Ok, let's assume it is at the F3-F2 RC that Robby gets eliminated and those SCs that we are analyzing of hands and blue suit are Robby. We can clearly see only 1 rose on the table, so why would there still be a rose on the table when Robby comes up to her to say goodbye? CH would say, "Sorry, Robby, take a moment and say your goodbyes." He would turn to other 2 men and say goodbye and then walk over to Jojo. There would be no rose on table at that time. And if blue suit is a different man getting a rose at the F3-F2 RC, she wouldn't be holding that man's hands, she would be holding up the rose and offering it to that guy. I'm not sure how that table with one rose fits into a F3-F2 RC.

I see what you're saying MiaHawk...especially after I watched it again in motion:
This footage looked different ...in that the background remained constant...a light blue-gray color throughout.

while this-the background  did look like tptb were trying to blur out things...You can see the blurs as it plays. It did not stay constant. You can see a white blur in the background. 

This is piquing my interest.